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Standard User dect
(learned) Tue 08-Jan-19 20:32:51
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Thanks witchunt, had to ask the question as I didn't know if it worked the same way as carrier over voice (COV) where the line voltage is key to the carrier.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 08-Jan-19 21:04:40
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
TalkTalk who as of 2018 was planning to carry on as they do now.

.... and will they be obligated to pay more to those who provide and maintain the parts of the network everybody else is moving on from ? *







*I suspect I can already make a guess at the answer

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 08-Jan-19 21:26:32
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
Thanks witchunt, ...
for confirming what RobertoS said tongue.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests 35-45Mpbs down, 9-15 up.
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Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Wed 09-Jan-19 11:12:56
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
TalkTalk who as of 2018 was planning to carry on as they do now.

.... and will they be obligated to pay more to those who provide and maintain the parts of the network everybody else is moving on from ? *







*I suspect I can already make a guess at the answer


But Openreach wonít be decommissioning the E-side anyway. The test heads are at the exchange, so the E-side is needed to run tests on lines to identify faults. However, a lot of testing can be accomplished by the Brandeburg FTTC test system, which does not require exchange test heads.

So if TalkTalk continue with their system does it really cost Openreach much? Poor quality E-sides (though not strictly faulty) are one area of cost, theyíll need swapping occasionally. I suppose youíve also got the exchange jumpering engineers to pay for.

Icaras
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 09-Jan-19 11:25:10
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
So for circuits that donít require anything from the exchange bar pairs they will maintain a pair just for testing purposes ???

That seems hugely shortsighted (though sadly not surprising) if you ask me.

Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Wed 09-Jan-19 12:15:36
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Zarjaz

There was some work done in 2013/4 looking at whether test heads in Cabs would cost in, back then it didn't but the economics may change.

The feeling ( not sure it ever got firmer than feeling!) was that you needed a system to routinely / remotely test lines without a truck roll to the cab. This could have been overcome with a modem 'app' but there was intense pressure for any modem to be allowed and this gave OR ( you) no remote vision of the line state. Of course with modem failure the line would have been untestable so "exchange test heads remain" was the answer then.

By 2025 the economics may have changed.

Of course in a vertical monopoly situation this is all easy to solve as the supplier would control the end to end service BUT we will never be back there using copper. Fibre is a different beast until OFCOM mandate unbundled FTTP.
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Wed 09-Jan-19 16:51:12
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
So for circuits that donít require anything from the exchange bar pairs they will maintain a pair just for testing purposes ???

That seems hugely shortsighted (though sadly not surprising) if you ask me.


On SOGEA lines thatís the case already, and the reason is the one Iíve given.

In reply to a post by kitcat:
Zarjaz

There was some work done in 2013/4 looking at whether test heads in Cabs would cost in, back then it didn't but the economics may change.

The feeling ( not sure it ever got firmer than feeling!) was that you needed a system to routinely / remotely test lines without a truck roll to the cab. This could have been overcome with a modem 'app' but there was intense pressure for any modem to be allowed and this gave OR ( you) no remote vision of the line state. Of course with modem failure the line would have been untestable so "exchange test heads remain" was the answer then.

By 2025 the economics may have changed.

Of course in a vertical monopoly situation this is all easy to solve as the supplier would control the end to end service BUT we will never be back there using copper. Fibre is a different beast until OFCOM mandate unbundled FTTP.


Test heads in cabs sounds very expensive anyway. The FTTC Brandeburg system can and does detect issues like HR faults. It can do so with no E-side.

However proper tests heads are needed to detect earth and battery faults. Openreach does have remote vision of the line at the moment though. All that is required is the OGEA reference for the circuit concerned and a test can be run that will tell you the sync speed, and if thereís a fault on that circuit.

Icaras

Edited by Icaras (Wed 09-Jan-19 16:59:26)

Standard User michaelh
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 10-Jan-19 11:44:51
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Re: Openreach monopoly and length of time to repair services


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
Dect /Partial

Main refers to trunk/ junction cables not access. Most of these have now been recovered by BT ( Or thieves) for the copper. All the trunk cables have been Fibre since the late 80s and 99%+ of the junction ones (Exchange -Exchange) only exchange activate sites and occasional resilient routes now use copper cables. (Information from an OFCOM information request to BT that I saw around 2010-12).

Any Paper in the access network from prior to the 80s is likely to have degraded in the damp conditions that are prevalent in the access network. Even where large cables were pressurised to keep water out breakages would have let water ingress over the last 40 years. There may be a little but not lots.

Zargaz may be able to say how often he sees any!


In the 1970's, I worked for a company which manufactured rotary air compressors. BT regularly placed orders for 50 of the smallest models to install to keep ducts pressurised to prevent water ingress.

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