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Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 10-Jul-16 21:39:56
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Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


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Hi to anyone who can put a end to this madness.
Past i would say 2 years maybe a bit less something in my houses electrical wiring or.. well i don't know must have changed. I am getting incredibly insane issues that is driving me to my whits end.

All sensative electronic devices i buy no matter what they be that use electrical outlets (laptops tablets phones and things that charge seem to be immune) die at incredible speed.
I have tried surge protectors i have had TWO electricians test my wiring and sockets and they both said it was all fine. Yet on average an electrical device breaks every few weeks.
I will now give some examples.
24" IPS LG monitor. Broke after first 3 months, replaced. Replacement broke weeks after it arrived. 3rd one is carrying on.
Gone through 5 graphics cards in less than 8 months the company is getting annoyed.
Ram in two PC'S died one stick in each PC out of two in each.
a DVD drive in one pc that is never used broke and won't even eject or do anything at all.
Blu ray player broke after approx 5 months of ownership.
It goes on to things like soundbars TV's other monitors harddrives (i have lost over 6TB of harddrive space from harddrives failing and one SSD).

Most of what has broke has been replaced for free via the retailers or one by house insurance cause the retailer refused (i can't blame them!). If i was to go through everything the past 2 years that has broke add it all up plus costs of return and electricians etc it would be into the many of many thousands.

Surge protecters used for everything and two electricians say my wiring is not only fine but fuse box or whatever you call it above standard (a modern one).

What do i do, i can't go on like this, it's making me want to move house just to get away from this issue!!!
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 10-Jul-16 21:46:48
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
Do you have any wind farms in your local area? There are known to cause over-voltage spikes.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 10-Jul-16 21:54:01
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
No, nearest wind turbine i know of is at least 4 miles away. There are none anywhere near my house within that radius that i know of. Unless someone has there own little one in there garden. Can't see any like that either on my street or any streets around me either.


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Standard User billford
(elder) Sun 10-Jul-16 23:01:49
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
It sounds as though, on occasion, the supply voltage to your house is too high. There is one circumstance where this can happen without any obvious reason or showing uo on your neighbours' supplies. It's not common and a bit complicated to explain, but here goes:

You're aware, I'm sure, that the supply from your local substation is 3-phase, ie 3 separate supplies at 120º to each other, with (usually) houses connected in sequence, so that every third house is connected to the same phase.

These 3 supplies all use a common neutral connection which is earthed at the substation. If this connection should develop a higher resistance than it should have, it won't do any harm provided each phase is taking about the same current, all that will happen is that the voltage on all 3 pheses will drop a bit more than normal.

Note that on a perfectly balanced system the current through this earth connection is zero, so the value of the resistance can get (comparatively) high without showing up.

If, however, the phases are taking different currents then the behaviour is somewhat counter-intuitive- the voltage on the phases taking higher currents will fall (as expected) but the voltage on the other one may rise, by an amount depending on the value of the resistance and the degree of load imbalance. If the resistance and/or the load imbalance is high then the rise can be substantial. (This happened to me once at work- the office lights seemed brighter than they should be; when I checked the mains voltage it was about 280v!)

There's nothing you, yourself, can do about it- all I can suggest is that you contact your local leccy provider and explain what's happening, quoting the above if you want to. They can check the earth-neutral integrity at the substation and/or put a recording voltmeter on your supply to see what's going on.

If I come up with any other bright ideas I'll post again- good luck!

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sun 10-Jul-16 23:04:42)

Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-Jul-16 01:16:18
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Woa i think your correct! i have seen light bulbs increase in brightness. I mentioned that to the electricians they almost acted like they didn't believe me.

Who do i go to from here?
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 08:44:19
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
That is a possible, however it does not explain why Graphics cards or RAM fails - they are on the regulated DC side.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 10:18:41
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blackmesa8:
Who do i go to from here?
Two obvious things to do, not necessarily in this order:

1) Evidence is always useful tongue. If you can, when the lights look bright measure the mains voltage and make a note of it, along with the date and time.

If one of your disbelieving electricians can do it then that's independent evidence which is always handy, otherwise you could invest a few quid in something like this. (Your local DIY shed may also have something like it, although I can't find anything on the B&Q site.) I've got a similar one, they can be quite useful.

2) Somewhere in your phone book (usually under Electricity) there should be an emergency number to call in the event of power cuts etc. Although this isn't (strictly) an emergency it's probably the only contact point for technical (rather than billing) problems- if there's a better number they should know what it is.

The permitted range of mains voltage in the UK is 230v -6% +10%, ie 221v to 253v (link) although if it's only a volt or two outside that range they likely won't be interested. OTOH that shouldn't bother electrical equipment either so yours is probably more than that.

You may have to be persistent/persuasive- leccy boards tend to be doubtful about the technical abilities of the general public (justifiably in most cases) which is why I suggested getting some evidence!

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 10:24:39
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
That is a possible, however it does not explain why Graphics cards or RAM fails - they are on the regulated DC side.
Regulating PSUs are only intended to work within a specified range of input voltage, go outside that range and correct operation isn't guaranteed.

Ideally, if the input voltage goes out of range they should shut down, but computer PSUs are more usually designed down to a price rather than up to a specification frown

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 10:38:30
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
May be worth canvassing your neighbours asking if they have had similar problems. The leccy company may take more notice if there is a cluster of addresses with issues.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 10:56:11
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
True, but I would expect there to be a reasonable amount of headroom available before the output goes out of spec. Looking at the various PSUs here they tend to say 100-230v or 100-240v which I would guess are nominal voltages, and I have seen ones showing 275v. With most cheaper SMPS working at an input voltage ration between 3 and 3.2 (higher spec ones can go up to 6:1) you could expect to see within spec operation from 90 to 270v or 95 to 285v both rages being well outside the UK supply spec. So, it really would need to be a significant deviation.

There could possibly be a neutral fault somewhere outside and as a reasonably heavy load is switched on or off there could be a large transient voltage coming through - enough to cause damage but not enough to trip a surge arrestor.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 11:09:13
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Good idea, I should have suggested that crazy

And if similar problems occur every third house, that would pretty much nail it.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-Jul-16 11:19:30
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
I am going to start asking around about it. That to had to be done on this street when it smelled of petrol or oil for weeks. Turned out someones Oil powered central heating tank that stores the oil had been leaking while they were on holiday.
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 11:23:10
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
I would expect there to be a reasonable amount of headroom available before the output goes out of spec.
So would I, but your (and my) idea of what is "reasonable" may not correlate with that of the designer of the PSU (who will be working with the accountants on his neck).

Once that headroom is used up then my comment applies, and we don't know how high the OP's voltage is going.

Or for how long- it's possible that the voltage is normally borderline tolerable, but Sod's Law dictates that on occasion the load on the OP's phase goes lower than normal whilst that on another (or both of them) goes high. And something goes phut frown

All these things are possible, we just don't have the information to decide which are likely.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:50:40
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
my PSU's have been one of the few things not dieing. Can't remember any ever even before this problem started dieing.
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 16:06:44
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
Yes, despite often being a bit cheap 'n cheerful, PSUs are pretty robust in themselves.

But if the input voltage goes out of spec so might the output voltage on one or more rails, and things like memory chips are not particularly robust.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 22-Nov-16 13:46:23
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
Yes, despite often being a bit cheap 'n cheerful, PSUs are pretty robust in themselves.

But if the input voltage goes out of spec so might the output voltage on one or more rails, and things like memory chips are not particularly robust.


Ok so after all this time (look at date i started this post) it has just been fixed today.
The circuit board was melting on the inside including a cable. Electrician has been out and changed it and everything should be fine now.

So this is how i found it out. I was in shower and suddenly it cut off then came back on then off. i was like "woa ok what is this" and jumped out shower turned it off and saw hall light turning off and on over and over so rapidly it was as if it was trying to give me a seizure. I ran to the circuit board and immediately before i opened the cuboard it was in could hear crackling sounds coming from inside it.
When i opened the door to circuit board i could see arcing from behind the switches that turn stuff off and it was NOT turning itself off. I immediately then turned every flip switch off including the master.

So circuit board replaced with new one. Old one is "melted" and now house electrics seem ok. I am hoping this is the end finally of my electrical problems.

Edit: I just thought, since the circuit board was not tripping itself out for over 20 seconds at least, if i had not been home would it have burned my house down? It smelled of burning when i was flipping all the trip switches off.

I wish i could remember the name of the company or person who installed that circuit board. Today's electrician said the polarity may had been reversed, whatever that means, or cables had been miss wired or touching. He was not sure of the exact cause but said it was def the circuit board causing it and had most likely been fitted wrong because he said it was a good one that rarely goes wrong if fitted correctly. It was about 6-7 years old.
I got to today's electrician to right me out a report of his thoughts and findings on it but alas i can't remember the company or anything i used 6-7 years ago to report them or something because that was dangerous.

Edited by blackmesa8 (Tue 22-Nov-16 14:53:17)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 23-Nov-16 16:20:29
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
What circuit board is this? Do you actually mean your electricity consumer unit?
Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Nov-16 09:51:34
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
What circuit board is this? Do you actually mean your electricity consumer unit?


Yeah Consumer unit, Fuse box. Whatever you wanna call it.
The electrician took over 4 hours to install the new one.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 24-Nov-16 11:10:16
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

It's such a fundamental part of your home, I hope the time spent ensures a proper installation.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 25-Nov-16 17:41:19
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: blackmesa8] [link to this post]
 
Four hours for a new CU is reasonable. In some cases it can take up to a day.

What is the new one made from? Plastic or metal?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User blackmesa8
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 26-Nov-16 13:06:30
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Re: Bizzare hardware issues with electronics, getting severe


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Plastic like the old one but seems of different design. Different make/model i guess.
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