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Standard User chris52
(newbie) Wed 16-Oct-13 10:10:22
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Cabling a new network advice please


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I asked this at the end of a long thread on another topic but didn't get an answer so hopefully this will bring it to the attention of somebody who knows the answer.

In an installation for a new fibre system and network I have a number of choices and I am interested in which will give the best results.

There is only one realistic entry point for the BT line into the property and the majority of the equipment that will be connected to it is all about 12 metres away and is grouped together (rooms vertically above each other). My present 801.11g wireless link works from either location but better nearer the equipment.

I have choices:
1. Have master socket at point of entry or nearer where equipment is situated via 12m internal cable.
2. Have the router either with the master socket, in either location, or 12m away if the master socket is at the point of entry and the router is nearer the user devices.

So will somebody please be kind enough to give me the relative susceptibility to interference etc. between :-
1 the incoming internal cable before the master socket. (BT supplied)
2 the internal cable between the master socket & the modem (BT or Cat5e)
2 the internal cable between the modem & the router (Cat5e or all in one unit)
3 the internal cabling between the router and the final wall plate (Cat5e)

Finally if the choice is:-
1. flexible cable all the way or
2. flexible cable to wall plate then single core to another wall plate then flexible to equipment

which to choose?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-Oct-13 10:39:28
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: chris52] [link to this post]
 
The answer before of it depends on where the sources of interference are located still applies.

1. This will be twisted pair so reasonably OK noise wise.
2. This will often be a flat untwisted RJ11 plug lead so probably largest source of noise pickup, replace with a twisted pair RJ11 lead
3. That is an Ethernet signal which is immune to noise up to 100m in length so no worries there.
4. Again this is Ethernet and thus good for 100m of run using CAT5e

On the final 1 and 2 what do you mean by single core, are you talking about the difference between infrastructure cabling (solid cores in the 4 pairs) and patch cables?

The choice does not matter with respect to noise, but for wiring between two sockets you use infrastructure cable which is slightly less flexible that patch cords.

In an ideal world you convert the VDSL2 to Ethernet at the earliest opportunity in the property. In the real world this is not always possible so the choice is yours to trade a few metres of phone cable against a more convienent location for the Openreach modem.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 16-Oct-13 11:14:40
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: chris52] [link to this post]
 
If you are prepared to use solid core 4 pairs 100% copper CAT5e then running that between a point close to the current NTE5, together with two short ethernet patch cables and two rj45 sockets, to the equipment room would probably be your best bet smile


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Standard User chris52
(newbie) Wed 16-Oct-13 12:18:06
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
On the final 1 and 2 what do you mean by single core, are you talking about the difference between infrastructure cabling (solid cores in the 4 pairs) and patch cables?


Yes - I am differentiating between a patch cable which I understand to be multi core and built in 305m reel type cable which I understand to be single core. I don't know why the single core cable is considered better.

Edited by chris52 (Wed 16-Oct-13 12:25:56)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 16-Oct-13 12:36:32
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: chris52] [link to this post]
 
I thought I gave you some pointers and suggestions in the other thread.

My preference is to get the modem on the line as soon as possible. Running DSL signals within the house, even in twisted pair cables, increases the chance of noise pick up. In roof spaces and attic there are often lighting circuits which with CFLs and LEDs there is a lot more noise than with old incandescents.

Then run Cat5e (solid core infrastructure) - possibly along the line of the old phone cable to your router with an RJ45 socket at each end then a short flexible patch lead from socket to modem and socket to router . Cat5e running Ethernet in immune to almost all domestic RFI/noise. Twisted pair phone or Cat5e running DSL will be susceptible to noise, but not as much as untwisted pair or alarm cable.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 16-Oct-13 12:56:45
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: chris52] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chris52:
Yes - I am differentiating between a patch cable which I understand to be multi core and built in 305m reel type cable which I understand to be single core. I don't know why the single core cable is considered better.
The cables are all multi-core - typically 8 wires arranged as four twisted pairs.


The difference you're thinking of is sold wire versus stranded.

Solid wire is suitable for use in IDC punch-down blocks, as are typically used on faceplates and the back of patch panels. The wires are damaged by repeated flexing, making this cable poorly suited to being patch cables. This is the cable typically used for fixed cabling.

Stranded wire cannot make reliable connections in IDC blocks, but is not damaged by repeated flexing, making it ideal for patch cables. It is typically used with RJ45 plugs.


There are special RJ45 plugs suitable for use with solid wire cable, but the usual sort are for stranded wire cable . You must use the correct plug for the cable you have to get a reliable connection.

Edited by David_W (Wed 16-Oct-13 14:21:47)

Standard User chris52
(newbie) Wed 16-Oct-13 13:36:47
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
That is now clear to me.

MHC I saw the pointers but appreciate the detail clarification. I am anxious to do it once & to get it right.

Yes there are 2x6ft fluorescent tubes & 2 ceiling mounted extractor fans around which these lines must pass. Even though this will be low interference Cat5e wiring are there minimum desirable separation distances?????

After all the advice - a big thank you - this is what I am planning:-

Get the master socket moved to the outside wall on which the line arrives from the pole and directly where the wire comes through the wall. That will be connected via the shortest possible twisted pair RJ11(unbelievably cheap on the Amazon link) to the modem which will have a patch lead to a wall plate. A Cat5e infrastructure cable will then run the 12-15 metres to a wall plate very near where the router & switch will be located. Cat5e short patch leads will connect them and they will also be used to connect the switch to user devices when located nearby, or a wall plate for more distant connections, via Cat5e infrastructure cable to wall plates to patch cables etc.

If the service provider supplies a combined modem router (Homehub5), which appears likely, I will probably need a wireless range extender at the location where I would have chosen to put the router unless there is a better way (?????). Some of the existing wireless devices are 20m - including 2 walls and 1 floor level - from the proposed master socket location. They do connect with a 801.11g router at that location but not very well. I will need to see how well they connect with a 802.11n & possibly 802.11ac (with usb receiver on the receiving laptop) router.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 16-Oct-13 14:30:06
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: chris52] [link to this post]
 
150mm separation from power to signal lines that run parallel is normally enough. When they cross - do it at right angles if possible.

Fluorescent tubes will kill VDSL during switch on - so moving the master is the best option. I would also suggest running two cables through as you may need the second in future.

Your solution sounds fine.

There are lots of options about what to do for coverage - yes put a Wireless Access Point (WAP) at the second location, or use your switch to feed a couple located in suitable places.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User chris52
(newbie) Wed 16-Oct-13 16:14:28
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thank you all. I appreciate the help.
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Sat 19-Oct-13 21:23:49
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Re: Cabling a new network advice please


[re: chris52] [link to this post]
 
Possibly the info in this thread will be of use?
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