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Standard User DeekB
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 20:51:12
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sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[link to this post]
 
Hi all,

I have came on here to seek some help is getting my HG612 modem\router to work alongside my buffalo daul band router.

Just a bit of background, I recently moved home and my new flat cannot get Virgin or Fibre as of yet, I recently had 152MB line with virgin so dropping back to adsl is killing me, even worse is that I am with sky and have the [censored] SR102 hub they provided me with, Most of my network consists of cabled connections that run a 1gigabit speeds so having the sky router/modem is a complete no no due to not supporting 1 gigabit, also I dont want to use this is a modem as I am a gamer and dont want to suffer double nat problems.

I found these forums and bought a HG612 modem, I have unlocked the modem and set it up using ADSL2+ on PPPOA, 0 + 38, VCmux, the Wan status page shows that the the modem is connected, it has DNS addresses, Gateway address and an IP address and a good sync rate which is all expected, I had a problem getting on-line with my laptop directly wired into Lan port 1 on the HG612, G chrome would say probing DNS started then it would report DNS probe complete no internet, I could ping the DNS servers ok, I then set the DNS servers manually in my tcpip settings on my windows 8 laptop which allowed me to get online directly witht he HG612, It took me a good few hours to get it working but I did get there in the end so I know the modem does go online with ADSL2+ fine.

So my next step was to tackle getting the HG612 to work with my buffalo router which runs DDWRT.

I have connected the modem lan port 1 to the Wan port on my Buffallo router which is a WZR-HP-AG300H and then lan port 2 of the HG612 to one of the switch ports on the WZR-HP-AG300H, I can connect wirelessly to the WZR-HP-AG300H and get access to the HG612 via this connection, Again I can see its connected to the DSLAM and has all the correct addresses you would expect but I cannot get the internet to work via the WZR-HP-AG300H.

To be honest I am a little lost with what settings I need to change where, I have been through a whole load of settings on the WZR-HP-AG300H and also on the HG612.

I have set up the ATM connections to give me a PPPOA connection to sky but can't get the buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H to pick up any addresses from the HG612 modem. I have tried the modem in bridged mode > Ip Bridged, Bridged mode >PPPOE Bridge I am not sure if there is any more settings that could be changed or amended on the HG612.

As for the WZR-HP-AG300H router I have tried settings up PPPOE, PPPOE dual with entering my sky username and password which I wiresharked from my sr102 hub, I have also tried setting the addresses the modem has been leased staticly to no avail.

I have been at this for a couple of days now with no luck, if only sky gave us the option to run the [censored] router they provided in modem only mode that would be ideal for me but sadly things in life aren't that simple.

I have searched the web for guides ect ect and cannot seem to get internet via the WZR-HP-AG300H, I was wondering if anyone knew of any guides or could point me in the right direction of what settings need changed and where I may be going wrong with this set up that would be great cheers.

Also sorry for such the long thread but I thought best to post as much info as I could to aid helping me sort this out.

P.S. my Cabinet should be fibre enabled on the 30th sept 2015 so plan to get fibre once it goes live but again would want to use my own equipment rather than the [censored] sky has given me, I can't believe how far behind they are with their networking equipment really.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-May-15 21:07:20
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: DeekB] [link to this post]
 
Might be easier to use the sr102 as the nat device with your own wireless access point and a gigabit switch

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User DeekB
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 21:27:48
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I want to use a modem to feed my DDWRT router as I use DDWRT for alot of things line Wake on Lan, DHCP reservation, port forwarding\triggering and I would also like access to my main DDWRT router from outside the network which worked fine on my old Virginmedia connection, I want to use DDWRT to do all of this and not use the sky hub o ideally I need the HG612 to lease an IP that I can access externally like you get with virginmedia hub in modem mode.

I read that using the SR102 can give you double nat problems which I dont want to encounter hence why I bought the HG612 as I read that this can do what I require but not being a network guru I am having problems setting it up the way I want it to work and can't seem to find instructions on what setting I should set in my DDWRT router as well as the HG612 I know I can use the SR102 to feed my DDWRT router but its not just a modem its also a router which as said can give me double nat issues, expecially when using xbox live ect ect.

I prefer to use a DDWRT as I am very familiar with it, The wifi performance of the SR012 is very poor too and I also hate the UI in the SR102, also I have x2 WZR-HP-AG300 routers running a WDS config so covers my whole house

Am I missing something is there a was I can do this with the sky hub too?

Also as said I plan to upgrade to fibre once its available at my cabinet and this was the main reason I bought the HG612 as I read it could do most of the things I require but having problems setting it up to work the way I need it to, Sorry for the long reply again just trying to give you as much info as possible so you can help with the problem.


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Standard User DeekB
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 21:59:02
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: DeekB] [link to this post]
 
I am currently trying to run the HG612 is bridge mode so it acts as a bridge to the router.

I have tried IP_Bridged and PPPOE bridged with the DDWRT router set as having a PPPOE connection and entering my username and password.

I can access the mode which does have a wan connection and all the correct addresses but can't seem to get this connection to pass through to the router and thats what I was looking for help on, It seems other people have managed this with fibre so it should be possible with ADSL2+ hence why I came on here for support

I am sure there will be other people who have done similair to me as I have found on other forums, I think its the settings at the DDWRT side that are wrong for the modem and thats really what I need support on, I may register on the DDWRT forums and ask the question on there too, I dont see why this wouldnt work but again I am not a networking guru so just trying my best to find information online and set it up from there which isnt really working for me lol.

Please help!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-May-15 22:40:10
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: DeekB] [link to this post]
 
Sky with its closed box authentication and sometimes usung MER can cause issues.

Cloning the MAC of a device that works may help. Alas not much more to add without having an adsl2+ line and sky and exact same kit to play with.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User DeekB
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 22:51:32
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks again Mr Saffron.

The modem connects and I can use the modem in router mode due to it being unlocked, it does work but I need to set the DNS addresses manually in my TCP IP properties of the nic on my laptop or whatever device I want to connect with but again I dont want to use it in router mode I want to use it in bridge mode, I will seek support from the DDRT forums as I think its an issue on the DDWRT side of things, maybe the router doesnt support what I want it to do, who knows.

is there any other way you can suggest getting things to work how I want them?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-May-15 23:37:01
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: DeekB] [link to this post]
 
Pppoe to the hg612 would be the classic way.

Half bridge modes are a pain

Pppoa is only available on devices with built in modem

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kevindb
(regular) Thu 28-May-15 09:55:35
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Chaps,

Where to start. Sky make things challenging, not wrong, just challenging. My experience & pitfalls over the past 10+ years of ADSL/VDSL broadband with various suppliers and how/why they work. I've always used a two box solution, router and modem rather than combined and therefore have hit most of the problems, occasionally come up with solutions, some of those I understand. There are a couple of network segments that need to be identified, so I'll deal with 'WAN' and 'ADSL'. WAN is the bit of cable that goes from your router's WAN port to the modem, and ADSL is in essence the bit that travels across the phone line and terminates at a BRAS somewhere. The ADSL always runs ATM, and the data we're interested in is always encapsulated by AAL5 (ATM Adaption Layer 5) AAL5 has 2 connection modes, VCMUX & LLC, of which only be used to use LLC. Both modes have an address portion, the VCI & VPI parameters, often seen written as (0.38), (0.40), (0.101). They identify the specific connection between you & the DSLAM and could really be viewed as a VLAN type tag. Other than making sure you're using the correct one for your supplier (and I think that may now be only 1 choice!) they're not really important.

'Simplest' case first.

BT - VCMUX (0.38) Officially PPP (point to point protocol) over ATM (PPPoA)

PPP is used to obtain an IP address from the ISP, the problem here though is that PPP is running over the ADSL segment (ie modem to ISP) and is not getting as far as our router. Also it's our modem that needs to know the ISP's username/password combo, not the router. Solutions, none are ideal:

1) Most elegant solution is to get a modem that does PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE) to PPPoA relay. This converts PPPoE to PPPoA & back again, thus running PPP over the WAN segment and puts the PPP username/password details & more importantly WAN IP address on the router. It also assumes the router can do PPPoE but then if it can't do that on its WAN port then it really isn't a router! There is only 1 product I'm aware of that can do this, the Draytek Vigor 120. 2 problems with it, a now rather ratty ADSL chipset so it's slow and it doesn't support baby jumbo frames so MTU cannot be raised above 1492. There's a Draytek Vigor 130 ADSL/VDSL modem which I'd hope addresses the ADSL slow issue, and there's a 'promised' firmware update in the works to support baby jumbo frames and RFC14?? (forgets number) to allow 1500 byte MTU over PPPoE. If that new firmware materialises then this has some real promise.

2) PPPoEoA - That's PPP over Ethernet over ATM. In essence this means putting the modem into a bridge mode so that it forwards ethernet frames from WAN onto the ADSL segment, thus your WAN packets appear at the DSLAM. The DSLAM strips off the ATM layer, discovers an ethernet frame, which it then strips back to find the PPP lurking underneath and things then carry on as normal. Again your router runs PPPoE with the PPP username/password & negotiated IP address under its control. Since PPPoE is involved running over the WAN segment then MTU reduction is also encountered unless baby jumbo support is available and relevant RFC for PPPoE 1500 MTU. It looks ideal but there's more overhead running across the ADSL link, we're transporting ethernet frames containing PPP rather than the raw PPP of PPPoA and there's the MTU reduction. I suspect the vast majority of two box modem/router combinations are actually using PPPoEoA.

3) DHCP 'Half Bridge' - Some modems supported a mode whereby they did the PPPoA negotiation, obtained the IP address and then offerred that over the WAN segment to your router via DHCP. It avoided MTU reduction issues, but there were all sorts of issues with WAN IP address timeouts and it was generally a bit ugly. A lot of speedtouch modems can be persuaded to do this.

4) Tunneling - this is going back 10 years for me but I vaguely remember a modem on an ancient Speedtouch/Linksys 'cable' router combo that did some sort of tunneling over IP. The modem negotiated the PPPoA and then passed the address over a tunnel (PPTP I think) Fairly major MTU (1460?) reduction but it worked well enough for me at the time and I didn't understand or notice any MTU issues.

5) Double NAT - Use your ISP's router to do the link, obtain address etc and NAT to a local 192.168.n.n subnet, then get your router's WAN on that subnet, whilst handing addresses to your devices on 192.168.n+1.n Yuck. I didn't want to put this here really.



O2/BE/llu - LLC (0.101) Bridged DHCP

A simple solution that involved putting the modem into bridged (RFC1483) mode with ATM LLC encapsulation. This basically extended your WAN segment across the ADSL segment. DHCP mode on the router, no MTU issues. It just worked and was wonderful! There were issues if you changed your router since BE learned your MAC address, however a wait of 40 min or so would clear that, OR your could clone the MAC of your old router to the new if impatient. I seem to remember the supplied Speedtouch modem/router could also be put into bridge mode and had a decent ADSL chipset.


sky/bt - VCMUX 0.38 officially PPPoA

1) I've not tested this combo. It should be identical to the BT case above but I haven't tested and don't know.

sky/llu - VCMUX 0.38 PPPoA

The most problematic combination! Sky/llu are strictly PPPoA only! They do not support PPPoEoA, thus option 2 from the BT menu above is ruled out. If it were me I'd be looking at the Vigor 130 to do PPPoE to PPPoA relay. When Sky dropped support for MER on my line after 2 years it caused absolute bedlam trying to work out what was going on. I was forced back to the Vigor 120 for a while until I got the old O2 box I had to do half-bridging.


sky/llu/mer - VCMUX 0.40 Bridged DHCP

Sky's MER caused an awful lot of fuss but really was just WAN segment to ADSL segment bridging, like O2/BE but this time using VCMUX ATM (FCS disabled) encapsulation rather than LLC. A bridged modem with DHCP on the router will work but there's a fly in the ointment (as ever) Sky require your router send your username&password (the same as used in a PPPoA session) in the WAN side DHCP request as DHCP option 61. It was this last bit that caused all the trouble but 3rd party router firmware handled it (sometimes even gracefully) and increasingly router manufacturers have put it in their firmware as well. There's no need to clone MAC addresses. I believe Sky have dropped MER on ADSL line but Sky use an identical DHCP option 61 technique for their VDSL service - no MTU issues!

BT's VDSL service uses PPPoE - ie it bridges ethernet frames from your WAN segment across to the VDSL (PTM) segment (on vlan 101) Fortunately the supplied OR VDSL modems support baby jumbo frames so it's possible to get a 1500MTU if your router supports it. Sky in my opinion sensibly, drop the requirement for PPP and use DHCP with option 61 'authentication' thus avoiding PPP and related MTU fun.

It has consistently amazed me that there is to my knowledge only one product on the market doing PPPoE to PPPoA relay, the Draytek Vigor. PPPoE to PPPoA relay with baby jumbo frame support and a decent ADSL/VDSL implementation would be the ideal product. The Vigor 130 may turn out to be such a beast, but I ain't buyin' till it supports baby jumbo frames and RFC4638.


There you are. All that I know. Most learned by bitter experience.
Standard User DeekB
(newbie) Thu 28-May-15 10:32:57
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: kevindb] [link to this post]
 
WOW!

Very informative read, thanks for the reply Kevin I really appreciate it.

So what you are basically saying is a need a Modem that does PPPOA to PPPOE passover which I am guessing the HG612 I bought does not do or is not able to do?

Funnily enough I was looking at the vigor 130 modem last night they come in at around £70, Currently I am using solely the sky hub which is killing me, I really don't understand why ISP's nowadays don't just provide a modem or allow you to switch the router into a modem only mode like virginmedia do.

looking like my only option at the moment is option number 5 you say about which is use my sky hub and set that up with a DMZ and then set my main router with a static IP to point at this DMZ on the sky router, Very messy I know and will probably end up with a double nat and have issues accessing my home remotely and getting online with my xbox but it will need to do until I purchase one of these other modems, It is pretty gutting really considering everything I had set up previously with virginemdia worked flawlessly and now my new home can't get virgin its gave me this major headache.

again thanks for the reply but really I feel like crying right now!!

P.S.what are are you on right now and what equipment do you currently use to run that service?
Standard User kevindb
(regular) Thu 28-May-15 12:42:12
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Re: sky ADSL2+ HG612 & Buffalo WZR-HP-AG300H setup issues.


[re: DeekB] [link to this post]
 
Quick reply before dashing off to work.

Currently use Sky VDSL with HG612 and TP-Link Archer C7 router running OpenWrt.(DHCP client on the WAN, with option 61 easy peasy)

I couldn't get the HG612 to do PPPoE to PPPoA for the Sky ADSL LLU service prior to my firbre upgrade. Bridging doesn't help with Sky frown
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