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Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Sat 05-Aug-17 16:14:57
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Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[link to this post]
 
Following on from this post the electrician has moved the patch panel to make way for run 5 additional pairs of cat5e cable, the result can be seen here and in the following pics:
original position
existing terminated cables
new position
new cable drops and existing electrical cable runs

Can anyone advise on the best way to direct the new cable drops into the patch panel, considering that existing electrical wiring is in the way? I'm thinking a few curved pieces of coinduit/trunking will be needed or useful, the cable entry hole is under the patch panel box. My electrician will be finishing it all off and I'm sure he'll be able to sort it out but he doesn't know much about running cat5 cable so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by joconnell (Sat 05-Aug-17 16:55:30)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 05-Aug-17 17:21:40
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
Get the vertical power and Cat5e separated as much as possible.

If you have to, where the Cat5e cross the power cables in the trunking, keep it at right angles and just bridge it with the trunking.

However, I would cut a new hole up and to the right of the alarm control panel and drop the Cat5e cables through there running them between the timber support for he door track and the new stud work. Might need a hole in a joist but that will be easy


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User 10forcash
(regular) Sat 05-Aug-17 23:01:29
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
If he's clueless enough to present the cables that close to mains cables and switchgear at the termination point, what chance is there of proper separation in the cable runs? my guess is slim to square root of poke all.... data cables should have a minimum of 300mm separation in parallel and should only cross mains, ELV cables and conductive pipework at 90 degrees, preferably also at 300mm separation but can be closer if needs be.


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Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Sun 06-Aug-17 00:49:10
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: 10forcash] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 10forcash:
If he's clueless enough to present the cables that close to mains cables and switchgear at the termination point, what chance is there of proper separation in the cable runs? my guess is slim to square root of poke all.... data cables should have a minimum of 300mm separation in parallel and should only cross mains, ELV cables and conductive pipework at 90 degrees, preferably also at 300mm separation but can be closer if needs be.

I did advise him that any parallel runs of cat5e and mains must be at least 100mm apart, which I can see that he's done, but the cables were dropped by his helpers, who are probably clueless.
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Sun 06-Aug-17 00:53:51
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Get the vertical power and Cat5e separated as much as possible.

If you have to, where the Cat5e cross the power cables in the trunking, keep it at right angles and just bridge it with the trunking.

However, I would cut a new hole up and to the right of the alarm control panel and drop the Cat5e cables through there running them between the timber support for he door track and the new stud work. Might need a hole in a joist but that will be easy

Thanks, that's what I was thinking, it'd be neater and keeps max separation between the power cables and data cables. So long as there's sufficient trunking to protect the cat5e and relieve any strain on the cables, then I'll be happy.
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Thu 10-Aug-17 06:50:30
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
So how about this? Is it too close to the double mains socket? They've forgotten to add the BT point so maybe when that's added to the left of the cat5e socket the cat5e could be moved further away and wired into the backbox for the BT socket?

Edited by joconnell (Thu 10-Aug-17 07:29:26)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 10-Aug-17 08:57:52
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
Not ideal and I wonder how teh cables run behind that.

If you are going to feed a raw VDSL signal through one of the lines that will be the most susceptible to noise/interference even though they will be twisted pairs.. I would have put them maybe 150 to 200mm apart and ensure the cable are apart.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User mpellatt
(member) Thu 10-Aug-17 11:15:10
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
Grief, I thought my chasing out for wall boxes was messy......
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 10-Aug-17 11:46:29
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: mpellatt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mpellatt:
Grief, I thought my chasing out for wall boxes was messy......



That is an understatement!

They are misaligned, the two gang is not level!, cable behind are not protected, although at least there are grommets fitted. Way too close, having 10mm gap will look awful.

A decent Armeg box sinker makes nice rectangular holes in blockwork in a few seconds, way quicker that the method used here. The builder would save enough time once he has done ten or so, to pay for the tool.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Thu 10-Aug-17 13:32:40
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Not ideal and I wonder how teh cables run behind that.

If you are going to feed a raw VDSL signal through one of the lines that will be the most susceptible to noise/interference even though they will be twisted pairs.. I would have put them maybe 150 to 200mm apart and ensure the cable are apart.

I think the problem is that the electrician's junior guys have done the work and he hasn't told them what I told him from the outset. I've fed back to the builder that they'll need to be re-done. Wish I'd been on-site when they started doing that.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 10-Aug-17 14:22:16
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
No installation will ever be perfect, however get the best possible at the start. And that one certainly needs improvement.


I know I have an extension phone on Cat5e which gets near power cables and depending on what is running I might get a little extra or less noise being fed back.and maybe sneaking through the filter to the VDSL side,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 10-Aug-17 16:56:21
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I wouldn't be too concerned with separation at all, except for what is recommended for safety reasons. Has anyone seen any ill effects from running a network cable next to mains cable? I've got 7 metres of mains extension wire and two network wires all bundled together around the parameter of the room to get from one side to other, and the switch has never reported a single CRC error in all the time it's been like that (months), showing the connection is unaffected.

I suspect more interference is entering the mains wiring from the network cable than the other way around, besides the twisted pair allows the equipment to cancel out any interference introduced this way.

Think of it this way, lots of switches include their own switch mode power supply which you never see separately screened in the case and mains entering directly into it, pumping out tonnes of noise, yet these switches work fine. Server rooms are often the worst places for electrical noise with tonnes of equipment stacked on top of each yet it all works fine.

Might have been a problem many years ago but modern electronics in switches aren't affected as much as most people think.

Regards Phil
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 10-Aug-17 17:09:38
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I agree. Ethernet uses twisted-pairs and especially digital transmission which are well known for their rejection of analogue noise from the mains for example.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 11-Aug-17 08:38:18
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Re: Advice sought on routing new cat5 cables


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Ethernet may not be effected although I have come across instances where it happens. However, at least one of te cables will be carrying base VDSL signal and they are very likely to be affected.

Twisted pairs do not fully cancel out interference. some will still remain.

It is much better to install it in such a way to minimise potential issues at the start and do a nice neat job.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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