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Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Mar-18 11:43:19
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Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[link to this post]
 
Arising from a course I am participating in, I wonder how many cases of PROVEN Wi-Fi Hacking are known directly to TBB Forum members?

As opposed to Suspected etc.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-18 13:21:44
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Hacking or cracking?

I hacked my old Netgear route by installing a third party firmware.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Mar-18 14:26:30
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for raising the point.

One of the other course members is worried about persons gaining access to his WiFi signals by logging in from outside his house, ie managing to gain access by somehow discovering the conventional Password etc,

That is - NOT by actually accessing/changing the Router Software or anything akin to that,


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Standard User philjohn
(newbie) Fri 02-Mar-18 15:14:50
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
There was an ISP handing out modems that had the wireless key calculated from the MAC code, which were trivial to get into.

But as long as you don't have an open wifi network, and are using WPA2 it's highly unlikely, I've certainly never heard of it happening.
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Mar-18 17:15:56
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: philjohn] [link to this post]
 
Interesting about the MAC Code.

Like yourself, I have not directly encountered such hacking; but I hear it mentioned often enough that in conjunction with that course participant's concern, made me wonder about the "hard facts".
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Mar-18 18:07:13
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Absolutely possible with the technical knowhow and determination. We do it out at some of our client sites.

At home, often the WPS is vulnerable, so you can compromise with no brute-force.
A certain ISP supplied kit where the WPS keys are mapped to the MAC, hence it takes <10 seconds to get in.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.telecom.b...

Newer devices supplied by ISPs, you have to brute force the WPA2 key, however given every Sky Router, HomeHub etc has the same password length, that greatly reduces your possibilities. IE if you know every BTHub6 is a 10 digit password, you only try out 10 digit passwords.

The attack works by kicking a user off the access point, which can be done without knowledge of the WPA2 password. When it authenticates back in you capture the WPA2 handshake. This is now cracked offline, so the attack is somewhat undetected apart from a split second where 1 device is kicked off the AP for a few seconds, everything else is done offline.

We have a success rate of approx 50% out at client sites, largely since their choice of password is nothing too complex. Fortunately, this often gets us into Guest networks, whereas the corporate network operates WPA-2 Enterprise, a whole different beast.

Where the WPS is really flawed, you can see the PW is obtained in a couple of minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6rhsoIaFhE

More complex, WPA2 compromise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpI3fQjf43E

You generally would not use a dictionary in Kali as per the video, but some sort of cracking machine or even better there is a whole bunch of online tools designed for this type of cracking, some are more custom than others, and these have a lot of power to try combinations way faster. One site, you pay 5 euros and usually within 7 days it either has it, or not.

This topic is purely for your own educational purposes, not to check out on an unauthorised device.

Hard Fact wise: 100% possible, reality check: Rarely carried out given the low price of home internet alongside limited WiFi Range. A password is enough to put off 99%+ of people. Also, those with the ability to do it are usually techy and not to stereotype but they would rather have management of their technology, ability to pick their speed package, have a few wired devices (NAS etc).

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 02-Mar-18 18:28:31)

Standard User ggremlin
(experienced) Fri 02-Mar-18 19:14:04
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
just to add to ukhardy's excellent answer,
devices within your network (cctv cams for example) are often more vulnerable, - and the 'attacker' doesn't need to be nearby.

although it doesn't add to security, I try to have a 'legitimate' route to the internet - ie btwifi/fon, so people don't need to break into the network for their internet fix.
and yes I change default router name/password & wps requiring a button press etc

edit: though any 'sensitive' network I setup has NO wifi to it

Edited by ggremlin (Fri 02-Mar-18 19:41:03)

Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Fri 02-Mar-18 19:32:39
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
On moving house once, a number of years ago, I cracked a neighbour's wifi (via WPS) because I had no internet for like a month waiting for BT to install...
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Mar-18 19:39:58
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much for your explanation - and also that it would appear to occur very rarely with the typical domestic Wi-Fi circuits.

Interesting that so far, no one has responded with knowing a proven occurrence involving a typical domestic installation, aside from Nemeth's admission - early days though.
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 06-Mar-18 11:43:53
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Given the present lack of response, let's open the criteria a bit, by asking -

Anyone encountered situations that strongly suggests that there is any significant amounts of hacking of Domestic WiFi networks?
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 06-Mar-18 12:53:21
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
No.
Standard User FTTP2
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 23:33:57
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Thanks for raising the point.

One of the other course members is worried about persons gaining access to his WiFi signals by logging in from outside his house, ie managing to gain access by somehow discovering the conventional Password etc,

That is - NOT by actually accessing/changing the Router Software or anything akin to that,


I am more worried about people hacking the router/modem (and then the network) rather than the wifi (you do need to be in proximity!)

On another note, it is sometimes easy once you get wifi access somewhere to just log in into their router/modem since it still has the default password
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 07-Mar-18 06:52:20
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: FTTP2] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that.

I did suggest to the course member that he loads a WiFi monitoring program on a suitable laptop; and carry out a survey in and around his home, to get some idea how far its range is; as a first approach to understanding the situation.
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Wed 07-Mar-18 07:58:40
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
For the most part, the worst case scenario is that someone uses your internet for a bit.

When I did it, it was for a couple of weeks until my Broadband got installed, and I didn't harm anyone.

That said, wifi with the right kit can have a pretty decent range. My ubiquiti access points regularly detect the free wifi on passing trains, and the train line is ~365 meters away as the crow flies, through other houses etc.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 07-Mar-18 08:37:00
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
And if someone wants to access then using directional antennas and good wifi equipment would give significantly better range than a "standard" device. Wifi cards in devices can vary quite widely as far as signal capability and so whilst using a device to confirm coverage will give some information it is only giving information for that device and someone wanting to hack the network is likely to have much better equipment they can use with longer reach.
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 07-Mar-18 10:15:43
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

Is the railway line on an embankment, viaduct or some other raised position?

Interesting, thinking that the trains themselves are almost enclosed metal tubes.
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 07-Mar-18 10:32:08
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Agreed that all that is possible; but the more gear involved, the more likely that such a hacker would be more readily identifiable, except in enclosed, hidden situations such as blocks of flats.

-----------------

I am well aware of such possibilities, the 3 cm RADAR system I taught had 260 dipoles - the 10cm set had one single aperture aerial - all mounted on a trailer about the size of a medium-sized removal truck; and including 4 operators and 2 technicians normally.

Teaching classes of six to 9 trainees in such cramped conditions, tuning up the two EHT systems under live working conditions whilst kneeling on wet steel-plate floors made life rather interesting, then getting each raw trainee to do so safely!

And that was inside the trailer.

Less frequently we had to make adjustments outside, no matter the weather.
Standard User longedge
(committed) Wed 07-Mar-18 10:54:11
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
My recent experience is detailed in THIS thread.

For me it all started with what I thought was harmless use by someone very close by. In the end my router was hacked and trashed.
Standard User Malwaremike
(committed) Wed 07-Mar-18 15:30:55
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for your very clear explanation. I've often wondered whether this could be done.
Standard User Mml
(regular) Wed 07-Mar-18 20:10:54
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
enusec had a master class last year where they demonstrated, among other things, cracking Wi-Fi secured by WPA2. They are having another event this weekend, chances are they’ll do another demonstration. Check their YouTube channel this weekend, they will probably be live streaming it.
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 08-Mar-18 06:46:24
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Mml] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that information - will try to watch it.

Interesting though that there has only been one "solid" response to my questions.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-18 08:39:21
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Thanks for that information - will try to watch it.

Interesting though that there has only been one "solid" response to my questions.
Surely that answers your question? You asked if we had any knowledge of it and you have had answers - essentially no. Is only a positive response of "yes, it happens a lot" an acceptable response?
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 08-Mar-18 09:05:49
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Reasonable question - but I am trying to get some idea of how many cases of absolute proof have occurred, rather than the generalised ""yes, it happens a lot".

We have read of it happening a lot - but as you have observed, only one, solitary instance and by that individual.

So do we have reasonable, personal proof that it happens a lot?

At present one response seems very low on a forum such as this, given the general talk and rumours of its occurrence,
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-18 10:19:29
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
The sample population on here is going to be heavily skewed to those who know more about how to protect their wi-fi against hacking. But if you ask the wider population a lot of them will have not a scooby if they have been hacked or not so you are still no further forward in getting an accurate idea of how prevalent it is.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 08-Mar-18 10:26:16
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
I probably would not notice if someone connected to my home network wifi for a short time.
Anyone doing this would need to be close, and if outside would likely be visible. A technically competent neighbour might manage but the benefit to them might not be that great particularly as they might have their own broadband anyway. A business network might be more interesting.

As far as crime is concerned I do get regular phishing emails.

Michael Chare
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Thu 08-Mar-18 10:54:51
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Thanks.

Is the railway line on an embankment, viaduct or some other raised position?

Interesting, thinking that the trains themselves are almost enclosed metal tubes.


Not significantly, and not visible from my house.

https://imgur.com/a/bkzjQ

That has a map, the streetview in that direction, and the known APs in last 24 hours from my Unifi controller.
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Thu 08-Mar-18 10:58:49
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
I probably would not notice if someone connected to my home network wifi for a short time.
Anyone doing this would need to be close, and if outside would likely be visible. A technically competent neighbour might manage but the benefit to them might not be that great particularly as they might have their own broadband anyway. A business network might be more interesting.

As far as crime is concerned I do get regular phishing emails.


That's exactly it. I have no interest in cracking my neighbours wifi in a usual circumstance as it's almost certainly not as good as mine anyway. At best it's the same (if they have opted for 350m) and even then I'll probably struggle to hit those speeds over Wifi rather than cable.

I would do it in the event of some sort of outage, assuming only my house was affected, but I wouldn't do any harm, and wouldn't saturate the connection - then they might notice and boot me off.

To be honest, if a neighbour got into mine I would likely notice eventually because of the Unifi controller which gives me lots of data, but I wouldn't really care. If a neighbour had issues with their internet I'd happily let them use mine.

I actually have a guest network set up with a payment portal on the off chance anyone wants to give me money, but nobody ever has!
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 08-Mar-18 16:31:45
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Agreed fully about the skewing and its likely effects - it is also, hopefully, that skewed population that is more likely to make either a PROVEN detection; or have sufficient knowledge, experience etc, to have strong grounds for suspecting that it may be happening.

I agree that we are very unlikely to get a conventionally "accurate" idea of its orevalence; but so far in this skewed population, it seems to be extremely rare, compared with the publicity given to the possibilities, rather than the probabilities.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-18 16:48:47
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
If it was happening a lot and the "victims" were aware then it would almost certainly be all over the press. The absence of lots of press articles about actual wifi hacks means either it isn't happening or people don't realise - either way the answer to the "proven wifi hacking" is going to be a no.

There is a difference between people piggy backing on a poorly secured (or not secured) wifi and targeted hacking of a wifi connection. Generally full hacking is unlikely if someone just wants to borrow a broadband connection for a bit of surfing. Hacking to target a users data (ie bank details, personal data, etc) is more useful but requires a higher level of skill and also is likely to be very targeted - people who realise they have been hacked for this purpose may actually choose not to divulge that information. The easier way is to target Internet services and hack the data from them and sell on the dark web - that is news we do hear very regularly.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-18 18:02:12
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
And I suspect a lot of the supposed hack stories that do make the red top rags are not technical hacks at all but trusting users being conned into handing over login and other details by smooth-talkers.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User MatHal
(newbie) Thu 08-Mar-18 23:31:33
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
I somehow doubt there is much wifi hacking going on.
The vast majority of victims, though, would never know if an extra client were connected to their network so it might well be widespread! Who spends time looking to see who's connected to their router?

Usually there is little to be gained by the perpetrator other than free wifi as connected clients are usually isolated from one another.

Anyone doing it would need to be fairly local to the victim and a 'passer-by' would not be around long enough to crack a WPA2 password so the suspect list would be limited to a few neighbours in most cases.

One time when I thought my broadband might be unusable for a while I did investigate the possibility of connecting to a neighbours network but never got the necessary software set up so I can't say how easy it would be to crack the password as demonstrated in Youtube videos.

What surprises me though is that most people do have their own broadband connection when they could share the service and cost with a neighbour very easily. I've not heard of anyone doing that.
Standard User dwg1
(learned) Fri 09-Mar-18 01:01:47
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: MatHal] [link to this post]
 
We do, but personally I wouldn't recommend it, as you can never be certain what that said neighbour(s) is doing.

Edited by dwg1 (Fri 09-Mar-18 01:16:16)

Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 09-Mar-18 07:05:58
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In asking the question, I had in mind simply accessing the WiFi system - without considering whether that was simply for "piggy-backing" or for more nefarious purposes.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 09-Mar-18 08:44:59
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
When does the course end?
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-18 09:19:47
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: dwg1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dwg1:
We do, but personally I wouldn't recommend it, as you can never be certain what that said neighbour(s) is doing.
Indeed. The owner of the line is 100% responsible for what happens on it and so if someone was to access any dodgy (illegal) sites then you could have a knock on the door and unless you have some very good logging it would be difficult to prove the neighbour was responsible. Effectively if you share your connection you need to consider ISP level logging to protect yourselves in the event of an issue.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-18 09:24:42
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: MatHal] [link to this post]
 
If you are without broadband and considering "borrowing" a neighbours then I would suggest talking to the neighbour rather than hacking it would be a more neighbourly route.
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 09-Mar-18 10:51:36
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Effectively, it has just ended -

Cyber Security

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/introduction-to-...

---------------
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Fri 09-Mar-18 13:16:06
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
In reply to a post by dwg1:
We do, but personally I wouldn't recommend it, as you can never be certain what that said neighbour(s) is doing.
Indeed. The owner of the line is 100% responsible for what happens on it and so if someone was to access any dodgy (illegal) sites then you could have a knock on the door and unless you have some very good logging it would be difficult to prove the neighbour was responsible. Effectively if you share your connection you need to consider ISP level logging to protect yourselves in the event of an issue.


Sorry, but could you provide some sort of reference to legislation that makes this the case?

I get that suspicion would likely fall on the subscriber in the first instance, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean they are responsible for the criminal acts of others.
Standard User billford
(elder) Fri 09-Mar-18 13:23:50
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
In reply to a post by ian72:
In reply to a post by dwg1:
We do, but personally I wouldn't recommend it, as you can never be certain what that said neighbour(s) is doing.
Indeed. The owner of the line is 100% responsible for what happens on it and so if someone was to access any dodgy (illegal) sites then you could have a knock on the door and unless you have some very good logging it would be difficult to prove the neighbour was responsible. Effectively if you share your connection you need to consider ISP level logging to protect yourselves in the event of an issue.

Sorry, but could you provide some sort of reference to legislation that makes this the case?

I get that suspicion would likely fall on the subscriber in the first instance, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean they are responsible for the criminal acts of others.
There may or may not be any relevant legislation, but sure as hell it will be part of your ISP's T&Cs. They've got their own backsides to cover.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Fri 09-Mar-18 13:35:27)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-18 13:28:21
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
Trying to find a definitive source but can't - maybe I am wrong that you are 100% responsible.

However, if the police come knocking at the door because someone has been accessing the Internet for child pornography then how much angst do you think you are going to go through whilst you try and show it wasn't you? They could well seize your computers and it could affect other aspects of your life. It could be weeks before they confirm they couldn't find any evidence on your computers. It may be low risk and you may trust your neighbours but the negative effects could be enormous if it did happen. Personally I wouldn't risk it for a few quid a month.
Standard User MatHal
(newbie) Sun 11-Mar-18 01:08:40
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
In reply to a post by ian72:
... nested quotes trimmed ...
Indeed. The owner of the line is 100% responsible for what happens on it and so if someone was to access any dodgy (illegal) sites then you could have a knock on the door and unless you have some very good logging it would be difficult to prove the neighbour was responsible. Effectively if you share your connection you need to consider ISP level logging to protect yourselves in the event of an issue.

Sorry, but could you provide some sort of reference to legislation that makes this the case?

I get that suspicion would likely fall on the subscriber in the first instance, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean they are responsible for the criminal acts of others.
There may or may not be any relevant legislation, but sure as hell it will be part of your ISP's T&Cs. They've got their own backsides to cover.


If I were the neighbour being asked I'd be rather wary given that the police can and do simply come in and take every part of a suspect's computer (including keyboard, monitor, mouse etc.) rather than just the storage items and, no doubt, keep them for months, years or forever.
It was precisely because of all the confusion above that I decided the best way might be hacking rather than asking my (friendly) neighbour! In the event I didn't need to attempt it as my internet wasn't cut off.

Although I've not read mine I'm very sure the ISP's T&Cs will ban sharing - they have profits to consider!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 11-Mar-18 11:31:39
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: MatHal] [link to this post]
 
Remember accessing a wifi network without permission is an offence under the computer misuse act, i.e. you've broken the encryption

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User longedge
(committed) Sun 11-Mar-18 22:04:45
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
My experience is that the people hacking wifi have probably got iffy stuff on their own device/s. Once they're in, the network is exposed (via the intruder) to the incessant probing that goes on 24/7.
Standard User amiga_dude
(newbie) Sun 11-Mar-18 23:06:55
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
You also be in trouble under Communications Act 2003

The last case of someone being arested I know of is:

BBC News: Is stealing wireless wrong?
Standard User derekdel
(committed) Wed 14-Mar-18 08:37:03
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: amiga_dude] [link to this post]
 
BT allow you to do this on their BT hotspots from thousands of home users routers!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Mar-18 09:37:26
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: derekdel] [link to this post]
 
The key is ALLOW, i.e. the network is set up to be shared and they know a bit about the person piggy backing too.

In BT Wi-Fi via HomeHubs you are using a tunnel so your traffic is distinct from the homeowners, so if you break a law over content accessed the homeowner is not affected.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Mar-18 14:10:53
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Additionally you have to have a login to the WiFi network - and that is traceable so all actions are directly attributable to the "account" that did them not to the home owner.
Standard User zzing123
(newbie) Fri 04-May-18 17:27:31
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: amiga_dude] [link to this post]
 
It could be argued, given how locked down ISP routers are, that the ISP would be responsible if anyone connected via Wifi... perhaps that should provide some food for thought when deciding to restrict users from even changing DNS.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 04-May-18 20:49:46
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
I read this article awhile ago, I assume it's along your colleagues concerns where WPA2 is flawed?

https://www.krackattacks.com/

The link was given in one of the security newsletters I receive - I can't remember if it was from the Sophos Newsletter or from another genuine security research newsletter).

On the subject of Internet "Attacks" of any kind, I found a recent TV piece (can't remember the program) where those who are infecting peoples machines with BitCoin Mining Malware are doing it subtlety. In as much as limiting the CPU load so it's less obvious and Not installing any other Malware.

So it makes me wonder, are those out there trying to hack Wi-Fi networks doing so out of interest, or doing so to cause damage ie installing malware etc.
The reason I mentioned the Bitcoin scenario is it appears those trying to do bad, look for the easiest routes to their ill gotten gains. So on that premise I would have thought that Breaking Wi-Fi would be low down on the Hackers list of activities.

Edited by Vorlon (Fri 04-May-18 20:52:53)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 05-May-18 16:58:38
Print Post

Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
They are infecting people's machines by getting people to click on links and then install malware to mine bitcoin or whatever. No need to hack WiFi for that.

ZeN Fibre Unlimited 2
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 06-May-18 15:22:37
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
They are infecting people's machines by getting people to click on links and then install malware to mine bitcoin or whatever. No need to hack WiFi for that.


I'm aware of that - I was trying to add some input to the topic in as much as people who "Hack" will generally go for the low hanging fruit first.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 07-May-18 19:06:34
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
This concept of not noticing who is on your home WiFi I believe will become less prevalent. I'm doing a bit of a stint out in the US right now for work and Xfinity (Comcast) have user access pretty nailed down on their new ISP routers. You essentially can do a bunch of things like setup times for the kids to be online, setup certain users parental controls and others no restrictions, have priority devices such as TV streaming boxex etc. It even breaks down usage per user etc.This is on the ISP provided gateway, so standard now... I would expect if the comcast / sky merger goes ahead, the same type of tech to be carried over (possibly).

A brief look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSNsxwzYZJk

In the UK, things such as the BT Whole Home WiFi provide similar dashboards.

As the GUIs get better and more "app" friendly awareness will probably rise...

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 07-May-18 19:09:20)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 07-May-18 20:32:18
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
That is interesting. I could improve my security by enabling MAC Restriction mode but that does take extra effort.

Michael Chare
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Tue 08-May-18 07:37:02
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
That is interesting. I could improve my security by enabling MAC Restriction mode but that does take extra effort.

Restricting access by MAC is a waste of time, people can just change their MAC Addresses, I have a Tablet where the MAC Address is different every time I start the Wi-Fi, I also have network hardware that use Software MAC Addressing, so that won't work.

Paul

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Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 08-May-18 22:46:58
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps a future feature could be WiFi On demand (Unless it already exists), essentially building flexibility on top of features like "active on hours" setup in the router.

So using any activating means that you like, ie sitting in your favourite chair or perhaps a certain hand gesture, could then activate your Wifi rather than having it active 24/7.

It would save energy (I know, a very small amount) but it would mean those wardriving would more likely miss your WiFi setup.
Or if the Wifi Handshake is all too slow, you could use an additional option on the routers firewall eg enable/disable all ports which could be activated far more quickly.

Edited by Vorlon (Tue 08-May-18 22:50:07)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 08-May-18 23:14:38
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Re: Proven Wi-Fi Hacking


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Wi-Fi power saving modes already exist

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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