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Standard User nmg196
(learned) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:13:45
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Post 21CN nightmares


[link to this post]
 
I got an email from NewNet a few weeks ago saying I was going to be moved to BT's 21st Century Network (21CN). Since I was actually moved, I've had no end of problems!

My router keeps re-syncing several times a day (usually in the evenings actually). Often it resyncs with a very upload speed (96Kbps or 128kbps). Even when the sync speeds are good, it feels a lot slower than it was before and my broadband quality graph from this site is now full of yellow and red with high latency and packet loss.

I've tried 3 different routers (even purchased a new one at my expense) and have tried two microfilters and have also been using the test socket for the last week or two. Nothing has made any difference and I still get constant resyncs and disconnects.

NewNet have said that they want to send a BT SFI engineer out to my premises but have asked me to agree to the following:
If Openreach do not find a fault with any BT Maintained equipment or wiring external or internal to my premises during the engineer visit, a charge of £160+VAT will be made by BT Wholesale for the engineer call out for which I accept and agree to pay.

So basically, if BT come out and don't find a problem (which they may not, as the fault is intermittent) I get charged £188 unconditionally! Only an idiot would agree to that, so what are my options? Move to an unbundled ISP who hopefully use different exchange equipment? Under no circumstances am I agreeing to those terms!

Edited by nmg196 (Thu 05-Aug-10 15:21:10)

Standard User GeeTee
(regular) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:34:58
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
Unbundled operators are subject to the same charges from Openreach as BT Wholesale are if an SFI engineer attends and finds no fault (or finds a fault on the customer's own wiring). I know some if not all pass those on to the customer.

Can you post up some line stats from your router?
Standard User nmg196
(learned) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:37:45
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: GeeTee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeeTee:
Unbundled operators are subject to the same charges from Openreach as BT Wholesale are if an SFI engineer attends and finds no fault

Agreed, but I'm hoping changing providers may solve the actual problem. After all, I didn't have it before the 21CN switch so it's presumably the new equipment I'm connected to which is the problem. I'll post line stats from home this evening. Which particular figures are useful?


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Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:38:16
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: GeeTee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeeTee:
Unbundled operators are subject to the same charges from Openreach as BT Wholesale are if an SFI engineer attends and finds no fault (or finds a fault on the customer's own wiring). I know some if not all pass those on to the customer.

Can you post up some line stats from your router?
It's just the usual BT WBC/WBMC connection troubles that have been ongoing for over a year now. Entanet used to be full of them, Plusnet and BT Broadband now in the throes.

It's borked.

The trouble is ISPs such as Newnet have no control over it, and no option but to move to it frown.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:40:43
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
Connection speeds, attenuation and noise margins. See here for help.

The full results from a BT Performance Test would be useful as well.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:41:33
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
What does samknows say about your exchange?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User nmg196
(learned) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:43:53
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm on the Botley exchange
Standard User GeeTee
(regular) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:43:57
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
The usual... synch speed, SNR, attenuation, modulation (ADSL/ADSL2/ADSL2+ or G.DMTnnn.n etc.), interleaving and any error counts e.g. HEC, FEC, CRC

In the first instance, if you have the option you could try forcing your router to only use ADSL (rather than auto-negotiate or ADSL2 / 2+). It might show as G.DMT or G.992.1 in the options rather than ADSL depending on the router.
Standard User nmg196
(learned) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:49:06
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Line Stats


[re: GeeTee] [link to this post]
 
I've found the stats I sent to NewNet when the problem started:

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 7:21:47
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 96 / 2,976
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3.49 / 12.10
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 10.0 / 17.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 59.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 10.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 6 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 7 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 35,358
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 149
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 128

Note that there's never been any problem with my download sync speed (although my new Netgear DGN1000 which I bought when I thought my router might be the problem seems to sync 700Kbps lower than shown above (those results were from a Speedtouch 780WL).

Edited by nmg196 (Thu 05-Aug-10 16:16:06)

Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:50:38
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nmg196:
I'm on the Botley exchange
Ummm.

Not the best for LLU, but may be OK depending on your type of usage.

Orange LLU is claimed to be reasonable, and Sky of course is good. You no longer have to take Sky TV - it just costs £2.50 (I think) more per month.

TalkTalk seems to be fine for non P2P use, but is full LLU which is bad news, see my What is LLU? page. If you take Sky Broadband and Sky Talk that goes full LLU as well, so if you fancy the broadband I advise against Sky Talk.

AOL - avoid.

I agree with your thoughts that going LLU would solve it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
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