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Standard User nmg196
(regular) Thu 05-Aug-10 15:55:07
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Can you confirm that switching to Sky would mean my line is definitely connected to physically different equipment at the exchange and it's just the backhaul that changes?

You say "Sky of course is good" but they don't look that good when use the "Compare" function on this site smile See here

I'm already with Sky for TV - so it would save me a load of cash to go with them, but I've been put off by the low bars on that graph!

Edited by nmg196 (Thu 05-Aug-10 15:56:16)

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 05-Aug-10 16:02:25
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
Sky LLU products on the whole are good but they also have a BT IPstream product called Connect which is poor and lowers Sky's overall rating.

It's the same scenario with O2 LLU and their BT IPstream product called Access, it too is dire

Alastair

omadasafisho
Standard User nmg196
(regular) Thu 05-Aug-10 16:15:40
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Also I'm kind of hoping that I can move to some kind of FTTC product in the next few months (Samknows shows that my area is being enabled in December) so I'm not sure if switching to an FTTC product would be harder if I've moved to an LLU product?


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Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Thu 05-Aug-10 16:47:56
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
I agree with Apprentice that the low ratings for Sky are because of the Sky Connect product.

Yes, if you go LLU the line from you is jumpered at the exchange to a Sky DSLAM instead of a BT Wholesale one. See my WHat is LLU? page again for more detail.

At the moment I don't know what Sky are doing about FTTC. It seems unlikely they are doing nothing, but if they went the BT Wholesale route then the effect could be bad, as in Sky Connect.

Moving from partial LLU (as recommended) to FTTC elsewhere should not be a problem except for the contract/minimum term you sign up to on the LLU. I don't see any under 12 months though on your exchange frown.

Bit of a rock and a hard place.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User nmg196
(regular) Thu 05-Aug-10 17:21:40
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thinkbroadband quality monitor graph


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Here's my thinkbroadband quality monitor graph. Not too good yesterday evening as you can see!
Standard User nmg196
(regular) Fri 06-Aug-10 12:28:48
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Update


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well it looks like I'll be moving ISPs! NewNet's Customer Service manager refuses to change the wording of the SFI agreement form, so I cannot sign it. Probably will have to go to Sky but I hate the idea of being on a 1 year contract. What if I switch to them and then have the same problems I've had with NewNet?

There's presumably no point me changing to a decent BT based ISP such as IDNET as I'd probably be linked in to the same equipment and have the same issues?
Standard User nmg196
(regular) Tue 10-Aug-10 13:50:07
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another update


[re: nmg196] [link to this post]
 
OK, I requested the details of a company director (as well as my migration auth code/MAC) and the operations director agreed to change the wording to wording I supplied, so I signed the form and booked a BT SFI visit for next Saturday.

But then, guess what? The problem fixed itself! I've not had a single re-sync in the last 4 days (other than one I caused myself by going back go my original router). I hate intermittent problems! It will probably come back at some point as my ISP claim they've not changed anything. I'm guess it must have been caused by some general fault on the exchange equipment which has now been sorted out. Or perhaps some outside interference which has now gone away. I'll probably never know!
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 01-Apr-11 07:58:11
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: GeeTee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeeTee:
The usual... synch speed, SNR, attenuation, modulation (ADSL/ADSL2/ADSL2+ or G.DMTnnn.n etc.), interleaving and any error counts e.g. HEC, FEC, CRC

In the first instance, if you have the option you could try forcing your router to only use ADSL (rather than auto-negotiate or ADSL2 / 2+). It might show as G.DMT or G.992.1 in the options rather than ADSL depending on the router.


A NewNet connection I 'look after' was moved from NewNet's to be decommissioned (on this exchange) LLU service, to BT 21CN.

Oh my !! Three years worth of solid connection, that floated between sync rates of 7000 to 8000.
The system used SRA, so never a disconnect on a sync change.

Yesterday lunchtime the connection was swapped over to CN21. On the plus side, according to the BQM graph, the actual down time was only 5 mins or so. Also the u/s sync has doubled, was 544, is now 1059. Curiously the old connection was Interleaved, but the new one is 'Fast'. Initally the connection was 9000 at an SNR of 6dB, after two hours that dropped to 8700, but the connection suffered lots of packet loss.

I've now forced the router to G.992.1 (aka ADSL 1) and after 12 hours things seem stable.
d/s sync is 8128 at 7dB SNR, u/s remains at 1059 (at 6dB) which is odd, I thought the max under G.992.1 was 832k ?

Anyway early days still !

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/c6ce7227202...

Those spikes every hour are a Sony TV waking up, and looking for updates !

Edited by broadbandjockey (Fri 01-Apr-11 08:08:33)

Standard User Bemused_Mike
(regular) Sun 03-Apr-11 20:30:27
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
TalkTalk seems to be fine for non P2P use, but is full LLU which is bad news. If you take Sky Broadband and Sky Talk that goes full LLU as well, so if you fancy the broadband I advise against Sky Talk.


Sorry if this is a noobish question, but could you please explain exactly why full LLU is a bad thing, Roberto? I just want to understand. smile

As an example, is the likes of O2's home phone and broadband full LLU?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 03-Apr-11 22:11:55
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Re: Post 21CN nightmares


[re: Bemused_Mike] [link to this post]
 
First point is that what I say in that quote is incorrect. Sky LLU Broadband and Sky Talk (calls) is not full LLU. It is LLU Broadband plus Sky Line Rental that is Full LLU.

However, to try to answer your question.

When you pay someone other than BT (Retail) for your phone rental there are two ways they can be providing it. There is no obvious way of knowing which way other than asking/browsing around.

The normal way is using a BT Openreach service called Wholesale Line Rental, (WLR). That is what O2 does.

The good thing about WLR is that it counts as a "BT Line" for all ISPs that require one, ie nearly all ISPs. The awkward bit can be that many WLR line providers, again O2 is one, don't allow you to have another ISP's broadband service on the line - it has to be their own. Though apparently O2 do allow you a grace period to move the line if you migrate the broadband first.

The less common, (in number of ISPs but now almost certainly most common in number of subscribers due to TalkTalk and Sky), is Full LLU where the ISP, (technically the Communications Provider - CP), feeds your phone service down their LLU backhaul to some place under their control, and from there into the BT PSTN system, rather than letting it feed into the PSTN network at your exchange which is what happens under WLR.

Because the phone service is much more under the CP's control than with WLR it no longer counts as a BT Line. So migration away means you either have to move to another Full LLU provider, or you first have to get the line back to a WLR supplier, not necessarily BT itself.

Look at it another way which may be simpler. When you have broadband your line is physically connected to the broadband equipment in the exchange.

Under WLR the exchange side of your phone connection is also connected to the broadband equipment so as to get onto the line to you.

Under Full LLU goodness knows where your phone connection gets back into the BT PSTN system. It certainly isn't at your exchange.

To get back from full LLU can mean either paying a reconnection charge of some amount to a WLR supplier for the line itself, and possibly an ADSL connection charge as well, rather than a free migration. Having said that, BT (Retail) at the moment seem to be doing such moves free of charge, so long as you take an 18-month contract for both line and BT Total Broadband.

To many people that seems less than ideal tongue.

I'm not sure how clear that is, but the best I can do right now.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
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