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  >> Broadband Not-spots & slow-spots


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Standard User hvis42
(newbie) Wed 28-Dec-16 12:12:17
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
No-one is "screwing you over". Fast broadband isn't a necessity of life however desirable. That BT, Virgin, Gigaclear etc, haven't chosen to enable our areas is unfortunate and frustrating and we have both had to deal with it in our own way. These are all commercial businesses not charities so can hardly be blamed for not spending money where they feel they aren't going to see a return on their investment. If you want to blame someone blame govenment, both Labour and Tory who chose to fund BDUK and and then decided to exclude the larger cities. It's not just parts of London that have been left in the slow lane but also parts of Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds to name but three others

I hope your wireless connection works out for you. It's unfortunate that there aren't enough others in you locality that feel the same as you do who are prepared to contribute £150-£200 each towards a community wide solution rather than each having to work individually as you have done.


I would also cast some blame to the direction of Ofcom as line rental prices are regulated.

I understand government subsidies and programmes to enable remote, rural areas as price per connection might be more than anyone could be expected to invest. However, areas like Rotherhithe or Lambeth, are as urban as it gets in this country. If the business and pricing model is such that it does not support investment to these locations and similar others either, there is something seriously wrong with the business model.

What would change if line rental cost went up £1/month for now until Openreach have completed their investment round? Few people would notice. What could be achieved with this money, if the current problem is lack of money as everyone routinely claims?

As already discussed here, creating a community in an area where 70% of residents are tenants with no intention to stay very long, is complicated. I am a buy to let landlord as well, and if a community representative suggested it would now cost £600 to improve internet in the area, I would politely ask my tenant, and if they declined to pay for it, so would I. There would be no way for me to reclaim the money from anyone, and I fear it would be the same in Rotherhithe. I would be happy to pay here but most of our neighbours probably would not.

Another woe in Rotherhithe is the local cabling. It is apparently aluminium, not copper. My ADSL line attenuation indicates over 5km line, which is probably not true as the distance between me and the exchange as the crow flies is 1400m. Correct me if I am wrong, but to achieve decent FTTC speeds we would need to be even closer to a green cabinet than in other areas cabled with copper. If this is the case, finding a suitable community becomes even more complicated. Hyperoptic have already done most of the bigger buildings, and the peninsula side of Rotherhithe Street seems to be already server by cabinets and new investment seems to be improving situation on that side of the road anyway. We are talking about a long, narrow strip of land, with Hyperoptic connectivity breaking the "chain" in many places.

FTTC investment of 75 lines would probably be in too large an area to provide any decent speeds over aluminium to half of the participants. A more local project would mean 50% of the new lines being installed to buildings already served by Hyperoptic, which would reduce the number of payers and increase price to levels unbearable to most.

I wonder what it would cost for a FTTRN installation from Openreach. Would it be as expensive as would be an FTTC project? This would bypass the aluminium problem and would allow much smaller communities to do something instead of trying to reach the impossible.

I am also a bit curious why Ofcom (and government) are so trusty of the free market model to solve problems here. If this was the case, I would expect all sorts of service providers to approach those without a decent connection, and offer to install one for a price. Why do we need to set up communities and try to persuade someone do something, instead of them offering their services for a price? In any other business I seem to be bombarded with advertisements and offerings, but in this case companies expect me to set up a community and then humbly beg them to do something for me for a price. As I would be doing their work trying to find them customers willing to pay, I think money flows in the wrong direction in this model.

Edited by hvis42 (Wed 28-Dec-16 13:06:13)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 28-Dec-16 12:18:39
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: hvis42] [link to this post]
 
Cat amongst the pigeons...

30+ years where the regulation aim has been to create an alternative to BT/GPO so any move to allow BT Group freedom to set pricing that will encourage its investors to replace things like Aluminium are very unlikely.

The BDUK programme has just about managed to stay out of the courts

So in short its look to the Virgin Media, CityFibre, Hyperoptic and others of this world, as they are the ones Ofcom wants to inherit the mantle of big comms providers.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Gadget
(committed) Wed 28-Dec-16 14:15:05
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: hvis42] [link to this post]
 
in the docks area the cables were often laid while there was water in actual docks, so often had to go around to get to the other side, hence the long cable runs and apparently slow ADSL speeds


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Standard User hvis42
(newbie) Wed 28-Dec-16 14:55:20
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: Gadget] [link to this post]
 
True, but the aluminium issue does not help. Lines would be long in any case, and aluminium makes the situation even worse. Lines apparently make two loops. One from the north past Rotherhithe Station and one from the south past the farm.

This would be an excellent area for FTTP or FTTRN, as the area is far from ideal to FTTC deployments. I am curious to see what the government proposed changes to support FTTP investment will bring.

The area is a nightmare if doing FTTC. I assume this is why BT/OR keep ignoring the riverside and focusing in the middle of the peninsula, as distances to newly installed cabinets there are much shorter than they would be around Rotherhithe Street. I don't know anything about telephone cabling, or any cabling for that matter, but I somehow think the area would be more or less ideal for FTTP/FTTB installations. There is already a conduit following exactly the route as the fibre would need to go, with entry points to all buildings. Can FTTB get any easier than that?

This does not help at all as long as their strategy is FTTC instead of FTTP/FTTB, but at least on government level they have recognised lack of FTTP as a problem and they are doing at least something to address that. If companies start taking FTTP/FTTB more seriously, I would assume this would not be their most complex installation compared to areas where current copper cabling is a star radiating from a green cabinet.

Maybe I am just a born optimist. I have kept checking openreach web site for years now pretty much every day, hoping one day to see my post code as "in scope" instead of "exploring solutions".
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 28-Dec-16 15:04:06
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: hvis42] [link to this post]
 
FTTP is always easiest where the routes are shortest. FTTP to a building where FTTC is available is relatively easy as you only have to take the fibre back to the aggregation node - not all the way to the exchange. Where there is no FTTC cabinet there is no current fibre distribution model in place - therefore it is still expensive to achieve. It would probably be more cost effective to do fibre than copper in this circumstance but that doesn't mean that it has a good return on investment.

It comes down to who wants to put the money in (ie BT, Virgin, government, etc) and where their priorities are.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 28-Dec-16 15:31:10
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
An impressive amount of FTTP from Hyperoptic in the area
https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#...

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User hvis42
(newbie) Wed 28-Dec-16 15:40:45
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hyperoptic seems to be very active in the area. As I earlier wrote, they have promised to do us as well if they can get a bigger building next door to sign up. This kind of a model might bring some help to smaller buildings in the area if they are willing to expand a bit from a building they have already cabled. Unfortunately for us, the next door building has not shown too much interest at least yet, and I am too busy with my work to become a wandering hyperoptic salesman.
Standard User Fastman2
(experienced) Wed 28-Dec-16 20:13:14
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: hvis42] [link to this post]
 
FTTB is the same at FTTC and a cab can go in the basement of the building --
how many premises in your bulding -- Openreach has done a numbef of these in London
Standard User hvis42
(newbie) Thu 29-Dec-16 09:32:53
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: Fastman2] [link to this post]
 
Only eight.

Any ballpark idea how much they would charge for this? I have always thought their billing is in tens of thousands, which would push the price per connection to unbearable levels.
Standard User Fastman2
(experienced) Thu 29-Dec-16 13:49:27
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Re: Rotherhithe (Zone 2, London)


[re: hvis42] [link to this post]
 
8 not good any other premises close by in same sitiation
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