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Standard User godsell4
(newbie) Tue 17-Jan-12 08:04:56
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BATTC is possible?


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I live in a slow spot, the exchange has approx 200 residential connections, there are no cabinets and I am on a +6km line, I would say most residents are on a 2km to 4km line.

Would "Bonded ADSL To The Cabinet" be a workable solution? Lets say you have 30 4km cables which right now get 5Mb, if a cabinet was built 2km from the exchange, lets say they now get 15Mb each, then bond all of them to get 450Mb. And then connect ADSL back to the house. So those lines which were on 4km do go a little faster and those on longer lines also go faster too as all the lines are now 2km shorter.

The cost of this is lower than FTTC I think unless I am missing something. Only a new cabinet needs be built. No fibre needs to be run to the cabinet, Later, if it makes sense, the cabinet could be changed to FTTC.

So what am I missing which makes this unviable or just plain silly!

PlusNet BBYW1
Standard User kitcat
(regular) Tue 17-Jan-12 17:05:13
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
What makes this plain silly would be putting ADSL in the Cab instead of VDSL. Both would count in theory as FTTC but the VDSL would give a higher speed to customers closer and keep within the Access Network Frequency plan. The cost of getting power to the cab is the final nail in the coffin.

I doubt whether a cabinet would cost in for 20-30 customers.

More likely to cost in IF all 20-30 customers were in 1 location (a hamlet) would be FTTP.

To do this Fibre (on poles) would be run to a central point at which an unpowered splitter is provided with Fibre drops to the houses.

The Fibre provision should be reasonable on the poles ( Don't shoot birds sitting on the wires!) and this has none of the large power costs of a Cab solution.

The same solution can be used for any similar hamlet on the exchange and others within 30Km of a central site using the existing fibres to each exchange. This makes the Head end kit scale to a better utilisation.

Anyplace where everything is very spread out is unlikely ever to cost in. See B4RN for an attempt at making it cost in by DIY.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 17-Jan-12 17:31:28
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
Bonding 30 lines - 30 x £10 a month minimum rental on each one. Not looking cheap.
Look at www.aa.nu and the price of Ethernet services in your area, i.e. their postcode checker.

The closest to what you are suggesting is BET - Broadband Extension Technology from Openreach, which can bond two lines to give 2 Mbps on ultra long lines, but at a cost around £1000 per property

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User wirelesspacman
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 18-Jan-12 11:13:33
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
If I remember correctly, there is an outfit (US based but I think also trying to get something going here in Blighty) that wants to do something similar. As the bonding is done by the operator (ie BT in this case) the costs of it are "internal" rather than having to be passed on to the customer. Will try to see if I can fine a url. Seem to remember they were even meant to be talking to BT, but could be wrong.

Update:

Here is the url: http://www.genesistechsys.com/

Peter

Loop Scorpio Ltd
Ledbury; Highnam; Newent; Painswick; Arlingham, Cranham
===============================================

Symmetric Pro
Now also offering 20 Mbps symmetric broadband!

Edited by wirelesspacman (Wed 18-Jan-12 11:16:11)

Standard User godsell4
(newbie) Wed 18-Jan-12 15:45:09
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
I would guestimate there are two groups of houses, maybe each has 50 houses. Group1 is very close to the exchange, where FTTP could be possible (NB. right now, there are no cabinets in this area). Group2 is about 3km from the exchange, the remaining houses are quite sparse, but within a 2 or 3km range of Group1 and Group2.

I am assuming that power and VDSL would go down the same bundle of 30+ pairs from the exchange to the new cabinets. Or the cabinet has to be located in one of the groups of houses for easy access to power.

PlusNet BBYW1
Standard User godsell4
(newbie) Wed 18-Jan-12 15:53:16
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
To do this Fibre (on poles) would be run to a central point at which an unpowered splitter is provided with Fibre drops to the houses.


For any Fibre solution, there would have to be lots of new poles too or trenches. Much of the lines in this area just slapped in the ground without ducting, this we know from when builders have accidentally dug up the lines with excavators.

If it is not obvious, I am trying to envisage a scheme which requires as little as possible change to the existing copper pairs on the assumption this will reduce many of the installation costs.

PlusNet BBYW1
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 18-Jan-12 16:11:58
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
While small numbers of VDSL lines (8 to 10) can be powered from the DC down a few copper pairs (Ericsson have a solution for that). the FTTC installs by Openreach require mains power, and this is contracted with the local power company.

Ball park FTTC cost is £30k to 35k per cabinet enabled, and even doing ADSL2+ (which fails ANFP) would not reduce the cost greatly.

Take a look at what some communities have done with fixed wireless, which can support reasonable speeds. Or see if you can somehow attract a 4G trial to the area. Even if 3G is marginal, it is worth looking at MiFi devices, they seem much better than phones and dongles at getting the signal, if you use twitter talk to @digitaldales who has experience of these in real rural locations.

Fixed wireless if you get someone happy to host an antenna, could allow you to pick up a 15 Meg ADSL2+ signal at a location closer to the exchange, and send it to a matching antenna, with little lose of speed, and then use wi-fi to share amongst a cluster of properties.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User godsell4
(newbie) Tue 18-Dec-12 14:12:14
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
So is Scotnet the only ISP offering BET connections?

PlusNet BBYW1
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Dec-12 15:59:26
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
Not sure, they were at one time, but things may have changed.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5600-better-broad... The people in that area of Scotland may hold the answer.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User godsell4
(newbie) Wed 19-Dec-12 10:26:08
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Re: BATTC is possible?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Not obvious if this is actually BATTC or not, I would guess not, from the description it appears the re-generator applies seperately to each line. Still needs a cabinet installed though for this exchange as all lines are EO.

PlusNet BBYW1
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