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Standard User ian007jen
(experienced) Wed 26-Jul-17 08:16:39
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
Upgrading them to 21CN makes no sense

It makes perfect sense, even lines up to 4 Km long will benefit from better speed, better cheaper backhaul for your chosen CP and better BRAS profiles (no up to 3 days wait).

The above benefits are from an existing 20CN let alone an exchange activate area with only 512 Kbps.

Ian
Standard User gah789
(member) Wed 26-Jul-17 09:07:13
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
Out of context. Certainly upgrading has benefits for the users but why would either BT or the Scottish Government pay for it? No extra revenue. Doesn't contribute to the Digital Scotland or R100 targets. If upgrading had made commercial sense, it would have been done in the previous tranches of 20CN & 21CN upgrades in 2008 and later, but almost all of the EA exchanges were deliberately omitted from those programmes.

Residual EA exchanges are orphans - really cabinet substitutes. The commercial logic is to replace each exchange with a cabinet, but that would kill the existing DSL service since the nearest exchange for us is ~12 km away. If OR was permitted to switch off ADSL and transfer everyone to VDSL the exchange could be replaced with an all-in-one cabinet. However, that would cut roughly 50% of lines off from any kind of DSL service. For our exchange I estimate that we need a minimum of 3 or 4 cabinets (for < 80 lines) plus a lot of line rearrangement to ensure that everyone gets a viable VDSL service.

This is why BT & DS keep postponing their commitment to cover the exchange under the DS superfast programme. Putting in FTTP sounds great until you realise that there are only 10 properties within 1 km radius of the exchange. Covering all of the lines connected to the exchange means installing 18 km of duct & fibre. Even at B4RN costs that isn't viable and our geology won't support cheap methods of cable laying. Overhead lines are the only way of doing it, but that means lots of extra/replacement poles because the existing network is in terrible shape - regular outages every year because the lines come down in storms. Once you start to look into the details it becomes clear why delivering on political promises is so difficult and expensive.
Standard User jimwillsher
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 14-Aug-17 09:00:24
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Butterstone, a few miles from me, is EA. Max half meg.And that's Perthshire, which isn't even H&I territory.

My line (not necessarily the line referred to in this post, if any):
Zen 8000 Pro (832 / 8128)
Edinburgh IPSC
Cisco 877 Router
Eclipse > Ace > ADSL24 (Enta) > ADSL24 (Murphx) > AAISP > Zen


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Standard User witchunt
(committed) Mon 14-Aug-17 09:18:45
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: jimwillsher] [link to this post]
 
Probably has no fibre and no line of sight to that exchange
Standard User skandia2
(newbie) Mon 14-Aug-17 09:32:23
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
I suspect the reason for upgrading these exchanges to 21CN is financial not technical.
It is probably cheaper than maintaining the obsolete equipment fitted to the remaining 20CN exchanges.
Standard User 961a
(committed) Mon 14-Aug-17 10:18:22
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gah789:
Out of context. Certainly upgrading has benefits for the users but why would either BT or the Scottish Government pay for it? No extra revenue. Doesn't contribute to the Digital Scotland or R100 targets. If upgrading had made commercial sense, it would have been done in the previous tranches of 20CN & 21CN upgrades in 2008 and later, but almost all of the EA exchanges were deliberately omitted from those programmes.

Residual EA exchanges are orphans - really cabinet substitutes. The commercial logic is to replace each exchange with a cabinet, but that would kill the existing DSL service since the nearest exchange for us is ~12 km away. If OR was permitted to switch off ADSL and transfer everyone to VDSL the exchange could be replaced with an all-in-one cabinet. However, that would cut roughly 50% of lines off from any kind of DSL service. For our exchange I estimate that we need a minimum of 3 or 4 cabinets (for < 80 lines) plus a lot of line rearrangement to ensure that everyone gets a viable VDSL service.

This is why BT & DS keep postponing their commitment to cover the exchange under the DS superfast programme. Putting in FTTP sounds great until you realise that there are only 10 properties within 1 km radius of the exchange. Covering all of the lines connected to the exchange means installing 18 km of duct & fibre. Even at B4RN costs that isn't viable and our geology won't support cheap methods of cable laying. Overhead lines are the only way of doing it, but that means lots of extra/replacement poles because the existing network is in terrible shape - regular outages every year because the lines come down in storms. Once you start to look into the details it becomes clear why delivering on political promises is so difficult and expensive.


Your post is exactly why we look at recent promises from the Scottish government with such a jaundiced view
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 14-Aug-17 10:24:29
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: 961a] [link to this post]
 
But TV whitespace will be the great saviour

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 961a
(committed) Mon 14-Aug-17 10:45:50
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
But TV whitespace will be the great saviour


How? And, more to the point, When?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 14-Aug-17 11:42:08
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: 961a] [link to this post]
 
If the R100 is delivered and it looks unlikely that they want BT involved then its by end of 2021

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 961a
(committed) Mon 14-Aug-17 12:31:04
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Re: Scotland - Exchange Activated Broadband... some help ple


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If the R100 is delivered and it looks unlikely that they want BT involved then its by end of 2021


If you read my contribution to your news item regarding Scotland you will see reference to a friend who gets very poor broadband on a dry day and none at all when it's wet or windy

He has been promised faster broadband by the local council, the Scottish Government and the UK government at varying speeds by dates from 2015 extending now, as you say, to 2021 (end)

I am sure you will appreciate his view that it is just all a load of talk, especially when he is told it is better to get 30Mbps rather than a slower fast broadband.

As another contributor opined "I don't care who supplies it, I just need broadband." Many, like my friend, are farmers who are told their claim for EU money can only be made via internet, like his tax return

5Mbps would solve his problems. 2021, with respect, is simply another idle promise that, like all the others before, is simple government ministers reading from a civil servant briefing paper that in 2020 will be kicked, like all the others, into the long grass

If BT will do it for a guaranteed price in the near future let them do it
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