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Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 08:33:24
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Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[link to this post]
 
Looking for another option for a house we are buying in mid Wales. This _may_ have a fibre option, but the copper connection if that doesn' t happen is only <2mb.

Any recommendations with Satellite? (or people to avoid) I'd be looking for packages 30mb+ with 60gb+ download limit.

Any suggestions would be most useful. I will be testing the technology at the various suppliers offices.

Edited by broadbandFlash (Mon 05-Mar-18 08:33:40)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-18 09:08:12
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Satellite is generally an absolute last ditch option. What sort of thing are you looking to do with it? Latency on satellite is terrible. High bandwidth packages are normally expensive and they can suffer from significant congestion at peak times.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 09:17:01
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Scarily, I manage servers via Remote desktop. The house in question looks like it has FTTP, but we won't know until purcahse completes. Copper option is dire, and I need to work from home as there appears no local offices with broadband!


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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-18 09:30:25
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
On satellite with remote desktop you could see up to a half second delay to anything you do (just moving the mouse cursor or pressing a key) - my suspicion is that you may find it virtually unusable for that purpose. If worst came to worst your best option may be ADSL for things that are latency sensitive and Satellite for bigger downloads - but that could be awkward to manage.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 10:06:44
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Ian.

Wish there was another way - we hope for fibre, but as a house purchase depends on it, we have to look at other options.

Any suppliers worth looking at? I'm intend to go to their offices to test.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-18 12:00:52
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Afraid I don't know the state of the satellite provider market apart from occasional posts here where people are complaining (which considering this is a site to help people is not surprising).
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 16:44:25
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
From what I've heard, I'd avoid satellite if at all possible.

Can you get a 4G mobile signal at the property? Maybe try the EE coverage checker (EE Coverage Checker) with the Post Code in question. Try O2, Vodafone & Three too.

If so, you could get a dedicated 4G router (e.g.: TP-Link Archer MR200), and maybe an outdoor omni-directional antenna if needed (e.g. Outdoor 4G Antenna), and then use that. This worked for me, even before I could get a 4G signal on my phone (EE have since boosted the signal in my area).

Or - EE do a mobile broadband package now, with optional of installing an external antenna: EE Mobile Broadband.

I do this (with an EE 32Gb monthly Data SIM, not their mobile broadband), and load-balance my 4G connection with slow ADSL, as that's the only option in my area.

The main downside with 4G LTE as a connection is the limited data allowances (up to 200Gb with certain packages), and use of CGNAT which can prevent certain usage. This is one reason I keep my ADSL Max connection (which has an unlimited data allowance) and Load Balance that with the 4G connection via a DrayTek 2860Vac (Info Here). The TP-Link MR200 is in an unstairs window (to get the best signal reception), and I use powerline adapters plus ethernet cables to "pipe" that signal downstairs into the DrayTek.

Another possibility - see if there are any WISPs (Wireless ISPs) in that area providing FWA (Fixed Wireless Access).

Good Luck anyway - I hope you get the hoped-for FTTP!

All the best...

Adam.

Edited by AdamInTheSticks (Mon 05-Mar-18 16:53:30)

Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 17:33:23
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Adam.

Unforutnately there is no 4g either (tried EE, which are the best in that area, will try others). We're basically in a little valley in mid Wales with ajust a few other houses.

Trouble is I need to find a definitive solution before completing on the purchase and ofcourse whilst it says it should be able to order fibre, it will be a very expensive mistake if BT happen to be wrong.

Trying to get the current owners to agree to allow me to order the fibre, but nothing yet.
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 17:52:50
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Hmm, with no 4G that means less options for alternatives, unfortunately.

One thing to bear in mind: the antennae on dedicated 4G routers are much better than those in mobile phones, and can pick up a signal where a phone can't - so are much better in poor/weak signal areas. I couldn't get 4G at all on my phone at home, but knew there was supposed to be 4G in the general area, so took a bit of a risk in getting the TP-Link MR200 - luckily, it worked and picked up 4G. Also, an external 4G omni antenna can in some cases make a big difference. Also, even 3G can be an improvement over < 2Mbps ADSL.

The only other 2 options (apart from FTTC / FTTP) would be to have 2 (or even 3) ADSL lines bonded together. Or - you could go with satellite, but keep the ADSL too, and combine the 2 connections (e.g. Load Balancing).

It's surprising that Remote Desktop (well, say TeamViewer, or ScreenConnect, or similar remote access technologies) *can* work quite well even at 2Mbps downstream speeds, I've used them myself at those speeds before - remote access can utilize compression technologies to help there, & most remote desktop packages seem quite efficient.

Anyway - good luck with your investigations, try the other mobile networks too just in case, and remember that 4G routers plus antennae can utilise weaker signals than phones.

Also - there may be a FWA provider in your area (e.g. Airband, Bluewave Internet, Dyfed IT, etc), worth investigating anyway.

Hopefully the current owners will allow you to place on order for FTTP first anyway, as that would be the perfect option! (Hoping for that myself - one day! - I'm in Ceredigion & have so far missed out on the "Superfast Cymru" BDUK programme, we haven't been included in the roll-out so far, maybe that will change, who knows...?!).

All the best,

Adam.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 18:29:57
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
HI Adam,

Thats really useful thanks.

This is indeed right on the edge of Ceredigion... I wonder if I bought an antennae and held it up outside the house if I could check the 4g signal....there is a glimmer of a signal (no bars, but no cross on the indicator on the mobile).

Even when I'm willing to go to any lengths and cost to test, it seems impossible. I offered to pay Openreach to do a survey to definitively say fttp was fine, but they wouldn't have any of it.

I'm even wondering if I could work out of a camper van on 4g up a mountain - but what a shame not to be able to work from the house we are hoping to buy.

Thanks for that info on remote desktop - useful to know. Currently the DSL checker says its either 300Mps FTTP or <1mb ADSL - all or nothing.

Will also check out Airband etc, but don't have any experience of this technology and what its download/upload and latency is like.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Mar-18 19:29:42
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadbandFlash:
The house in question looks like it has FTTP, but we won't know until purchase completes.
That is surprising. Why can you not find out?

Michael Chare
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(learned) Mon 05-Mar-18 19:59:32
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Where abouts in Ceredigion are you - in the North of the county?
I'm near the Southern edge (between Llandysul and New Quay).

Well - you could try a 4G router on its own, in an upstairs window is best - that may pick up a signal anyway, as the router's own built-in aerials are pretty good (at least on the MR200 that I have). And if that's not enough, then an external aerial can be added - you may need to try the router in every upstairs window, originally there was just one spot in one window I got a good 4G signal (although EE have since boosted the signal in my area) - even had to put the router on top of a few boxes on the windowsill to raise it up to get the best signal I could! I've heard some people put their 4G router in the attic, if it picks up a better signal there. I've also tested an omni-directional external antenna (on a broom handle outside different upstairs windows, ha ha!) - and it does work - I'm hoping to install it properly soon when the weather improves. But I do get a decent 20-50Mbps downstream & 2-10Mbps upstream now from the 4G connection (latency is generally under 70ms) even without the external antenna.

One thing with 4G routers - you may need to configure it to force it into 4G mode, otherwise it may use "Auto" mode and then use 2G or 3G signals instead if those are stronger.

The only thing is - it's around £100 for a suitable 4G router (like the MR200), so a bit of a risk if it doesn't work. But even if you get a 3G signal instead of 4G, it's still useful as a "fail over" backup connection, in case your fixed line ADSL (or hopefully in future FTTP!) link goes down. (Even 2G is just about usable for basic email access I guess, as a last resort - but is a bit like going back to the dial-up days!).

I believe that Fixed Wireless is usually quite a reliable fast and low-latency connection, if available. The only thing is, there's no easy way (that I know of) to find out what (if anything) is available in any given area - just a basic Post Code or map search at each company's website.

Some that I know of that *might* cover your area are:

Blue Wave Internet
Dyfed IT (aka Dyfed Superfast)
ResQNet

There may be others too.

I can't vouch for or recommend any in particular, as I haven't yet had any experience of them - however, our hamlet is currently trying to set up a Fixed Wireless link via Dyfed IT, so hopefully that will come to fruition soon...

Yes - I expect you could work via 4G from that camper van up a mountain!

In addition to the ThinkBroadband Mobile Forum, another good source of information where people provide ideas on mobile & fixed wireless broadband is the ISP Review Mobile & Fixed Wireless & Satellite Forum section.

Hopefully this will give you a few options & ideas anyway! Good Luck! smile

Edited by AdamInTheSticks (Mon 05-Mar-18 20:00:57)

Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 09:47:25
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Hi Michael,

The DSL checker says yes, but its not physically connected, and no other properties around it are allowed to order it. I am informed that the only way to know for sure is to order it and have it activated. To have no internet there would be a bit of a disaster as I work from home, and its a remote area with no other options.

According to the DSL checker its either theoretically got up to 300mbps FTTP, or a disasterous <1mb adsl.

One experienced person has said that even with the checker saying FTTP can be ordered, there is still a 10% chance it won't be able to be connected when they attempt to fit it.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 06-Mar-18 10:13:47
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
That is a nasty situation.

Do you know what the cancellation options are if you start the order?

Michael Chare
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 10:15:23
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Adam.

Its a few miles south of Machynlleth. Those suppliers look like they offer services too far south for us, but I'll give them a try.

Perhaps its worth giving the 4g router a try also. The house is over 2 hours away so I may as well take all the equipment I may need, including an external antenna.

As the owners have moved out, I'll probably have to test from outside the house, which means I'll have to work out a way of powering the 4g router from the car (answers on a postcard), and also getting someone to hold an external antenna taped to the end of a broomstick.

Presumably my ee 4g simm card will fit ok (what size is the M200 SIMM, as I've snapped the EE one to its smaller size?). I'll also presume that the m200 allows for an external antenna such as this:

Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0001 Cross Polarised 4G Omni LTE Antenna

I can't see any external connector on the M200, so I guess its possible to disconnect the littles ones it comes with and add the third party one. Does the router itself show the signal strength and whether its using 4g with external LED's? (saves me attaching to it with a laptop)

£200 spent, but probably will use them at some point, and besides Amazon are pretty good with returns.

Not sure how to power the router from the car 12v socket though...may have an inverter here somewhere.

The neighbouring farmer already thinks we're suspicious, wait until he sees me hanging out the car window with a broomstick and wires...!
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 06-Mar-18 10:55:56
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Do you know what the cancellation options are if you start the order?
This has already been covered in the thread. The problem for the OP is they will already have bought the house and if they can't get decent broadband then it will be a major issue - cancelling the order is not a problem. They have also been looking at whether the owners will allow them to order before contracts are signed. Please read the thread.

Edited by ian72 (Tue 06-Mar-18 10:57:36)

Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Tue 06-Mar-18 13:32:05
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
For what it's worth, I used to work in the satellite broadband industry. We used to fit mobile platforms (autodeploy/point) to mobile units, and support them. We mostly used Avanti and iDirect kit, but did also use Hughes on Avanti and some Tooway kit, all Ka band.

I used remote desktop and SSH a lot over satellite.

If you want to "test out" how it feels, try Clumsy: https://jagt.github.io/clumsy/download set it to ~300ms delay in each direction for ~600ms total.

RDP is usable but horrible. 4G is a much better option if possible.

Oh, and forget IPSec/L2TP VPNs. Half the reason Satellite works at all is because the modem and the ground station do TCP Ack spoofing, in order to speed up connections and prevent TCP backing off (TCP slow start) due to what it thinks is a congested network. IPSec and L2TP break this and it's awful.

SSL vpns (Cisco Anyconnect, OpenVPN, etc) work fine.

I would consider an ADSL connection even if only 1mbit for RDP etc, and satellite for watching netflix etc if there is no other option.

But I'd probably insist the vendor clarify about FTTP availability or pull out.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 06-Mar-18 13:49:10
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
I don't believe the vendor can confirm as they don't currently have it and the only way they could confirm from what has been said would be for them to order FTTP for the premises - not likely a thing someone would do when trying to sell a property.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 14:00:28
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
They (BT) did say that I could cancel any time up to 14 days afer the service is active. But there seems to be some oppinion here that they are not correct and its 14 days after order.

Either way I could cancel (I hope) after stage 1 install if the house purchase fell through.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 06-Mar-18 14:02:50
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
If a vendor was faced with a no sale they might change their mind, or a sale but with £10,000 lopped off to offset costs of a decent connection then they'd probably change minds.

A lot depends on how popular the property is in terms of other offers.

Its just scenarios where damp is found in a survey and a buyer puts in a condition that this is fixed before the sale is agreed, most sellers will realise that the same is likely to happen during other surveys.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 14:08:15
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. Thats really useful. Didn't know about that software.

The more I hear about satellite, the more it concerns me.

You last comment clairifies things for me when I've got a whole load of pressure which fogs things. Think I'll push the sellers to allow us to do stage 1 install.

My understanding is that if stage 1 is ok, no one seems to recall a time when it couldn't proceed to a live fttp connection, which we could do after the purchase completes (if it does).
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 06-Mar-18 14:14:22
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
If service cannot be provisioned then cancellation is automatic as no service provided

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 14:59:46
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Its hard as they solicitors are really piling on the pressure, having been dragging their heels for months.

However when I stand back and look at the situation, I think it would take them a long time to get other buyers or to rent it out.

Either way, this new information (i.e. that the FTTP is not guaranteed) is a key thing for us. Admittedly they did not put it up for sale with that feature described, but its something we need never the less.

Currently we're just asking by email to them to do the stage 1 install, but if that is negative or we get no reponse, we'll have to go to the point of not continuing (after months of rangling on other issues). Its exhausting.

Edited by broadbandFlash (Tue 06-Mar-18 23:54:22)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 06-Mar-18 17:40:08
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Is it showing as FTTP On Demand?

Can you provide screenshots here: https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s...

Use the address checker not post code.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 06-Mar-18 18:16:36
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
No its showing native GEA-FTTP - we've been over this ground before

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 06-Mar-18 19:08:14
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
On a different thread?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 06-Mar-18 20:01:55
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Yeah http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4584898-do-...

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 20:10:38
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Ah, so I'm guessing you're in the bit between Aberystwyth & Machynlleth (Talybont, Taliesin, Tre'r Ddol, Glandyfi / Dyfi Junction, etc) - a very nice area! Yes, you're in the north of Ceredigion, the opposite end of the county to me. So, not sure if those Fixed Wireless providers are in your area - but as you say, it's worth making enquiries.

As for the 4G router - the MR200 is the only one I have experience with, others are available (just search the likes of Amazon for "4G Router"). But - yes the MR200 will take your smaller SIM: it takes the larger "standard SIM" by default, but if I recall correctly, the router came with an adapter so you can fit the smaller micro & nano SIMs in too (and if not, the SIM adapters are very cheap).

Also, yes, the MR200 (and most other 4G routers) with work with an external antenna - in fact, I have the same one you linked to (the Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0001), and it uses the "SMA" connectors: yes, just remove the antennae supplied with the router, and connect the external antenna instead.

Yes, the router does have LEDs that show the signal strength (0 to 4 bars), and also whether it's connecting via 4G. However - when I first started, I was on 0 (zero) bars (none lit up) - but still managed a reasonable 4G signal on that! You can test by connecting a mobile phone to the router's built-in WiFi connection, & running speed tests etc via the phone, if necessary.

Anyway, if you decide to try out a 4G router, hopefully you'll be successful - and hopefully it will be a useful backup even if you do eventually get the FTTP connection installed.

Yes, you may have some explaining to do waving a broomstick out of the car - LOL!

Good Luck anyway, hopefully you will be successful with FTTP, but otherwise it may be that 4G will be a useful alternative.
Standard User mrijones
(learned) Tue 06-Mar-18 22:34:07
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AdamInTheSticks:
Ah, so I'm guessing you're in the bit between Aberystwyth & Machynlleth (Talybont, Taliesin, Tre'r Ddol, Glandyfi / Dyfi Junction, etc) - a very nice area! Yes, you're in the north of Ceredigion, the opposite end of the county to me. So, not sure if those Fixed Wireless providers are in your area - but as you say, it's worth making enquiries.

Good Luck anyway, hopefully you will be successful with FTTP, but otherwise it may be that 4G will be a useful alternative.


I live in that area and there are a number of locations where Superfast Cymru's project has come to the end of it's term and only some of the FTTP preparation work has been completed.

If your proposed new place shows WBC FTTP available then there shouldn't really be any issues in getting it installed since the infrastructure is already in place and it's just the final bit that needs putting in once people order.

What Superfast Cymru and Openreach have failed miserably to do in Wales is to actually tell people that faster internet be it either FTTC, FTTP or whatever, is available and that's a reason in some areas for this very expensive hardware hanging around not doing anything.

I've had FTTC for over 2 years, and it was only a few months ago that my neighbours over the road found out about that FTTC was available and that was only by chance. A few others thought that they would automatically be upgraded rather than having to order it.

One thing that confused some people was that the exchange (Talybont)was updated to ADSL2+ a few months after the 1st cab was installed, so people close to the exchange went from "up to 8" to "up to 24" and they thought this was due to "fibre" and they'd been upgraded.

Good luck
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Thu 08-Mar-18 09:48:25
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Hi Adam,

It is a lovely area, and as long as I can work from it we hope all works out.

Can I ask a quick question:
With your Draytek setup, am I right in remembering that the Draytek can use the 4g router as a wireless access point - in other words use the 4g connectivity and you still have the use of the Drayteks firewall etc, so your homes network is protected by the Draytek, even whilst connecting through the 4g router?
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(learned) Thu 08-Mar-18 17:13:09
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Yes, you are correct, in that the Draytek has full control & you can use its firewall etc to protect your network, even when connecting through the 4G router.

You can download the User Guides etc here: Draytek Vigor 2860 downloads

Actually - Draytek also do their own dedicated 4G router in the 2860 range: Draytek Vigor 2860Ln

For me, the 2860 Vac I think is a bit more flexible, as it also has built-in ADSL/VDSL functionality, you just have to add your own 4G connection (via a 4G router connected to the Draytek via the WAN2 ethernet port, or a 4G USB "dongle" in one of the Draytek's USB ports).

The Draytek Vigor 2860Vac has 4 WANs - WAN1 is provided by the built-in ADSL2/VDSL2 modem, so you can use that for ADSL or FTTC. WAN2 is provided by an ethernet port connection - this is what I currently use for my 4G router - but because the router is in an upstairs window (to obtain best reception - the higher the better is usually true for 4G routers & antennae), and the Draytek is downstairs near my master socket, I connect the 2 via ethernet cables & powerline adaptors (similar to these ones [although mine is an older, cheaper & slower version]: TP-Link Powerline Adapters).
WAN3 & WAN4 are the USB ports, as you can use 3G/4G "dongles" for a 4G connection (like this one: Hauwei E3372 4G Dongle). In fact, these dongles are another option, especially if they can accept an external antenna (the E3372 can).

If I eventually get either a Fixed Wireless connection, or an FTTP connection, then that would have to connect via the WAN2 port instead of the 4G router (which would still be useful as a backup - or I could add a 4G USB "dongle" to one of the Draytek's USB ports, plus either a small antenna (e.g. Small 4G Antenna), or you can even connect the larger Poynting XPOL antenna to a 4G dongle via a CRC9-to-SMA adaptor (e.g. SMA-to-CRC9 adaptor)).

So, in summary: I use the Draytek to "load balance" my ADSL connection (WAN1) with my 4G connection (WAN2), but the Draytek provides protection & control for the combined ADSL + 4G link.

The Draytek actually provides a lot more control & options than I have had a chance to explore yet.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Thu 08-Mar-18 23:48:33
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for this Adam. Really appreciate it. The 4g equipment arrive tomorrow, will test at property as soon as weather allows. Wish me luck.
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Fri 09-Mar-18 11:31:12
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
I really hope it works for you (I'd feel guilty about recommending 4G if it doesn't!). Sadly there are no real guarantees though until you try it. Don't forget, you may need to try the router (+ antenna) in various locations - and higher up is usually better. Also - try the router with built-in antenna first, you only need to try the external one (if you have that too) later on.

Good Luck - update this thread when you have tried it! smile
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Fri 09-Mar-18 11:46:04
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: mrijones] [link to this post]
 
That sounds familiar. There are locations 3 - 4 miles from where I live that have FTTP equipment (splitters on poles) installed, but I don't think the connections have necessarily been fully commissioned yet - that's the impression I get anyway. I think only those people who are keen to upgrade their broadband connection speeds keep up-to-date with developments - I doubt SuperFast Cymru post leaflets in an area once FTTC or FTTP are available? That would probably be a good idea, if they want to improve take-up.

Sadly, the area I live has been completely left out of the Superfast Cymru rollout so far. All the properties in our area are marked as "NGA White" - so I wait to see if we're included in Phase 3 of the rollout (that is, if phase 3 actually happens). We're all on long-ish EO (Exchange-Only) lines, on a Market A exchange which is still 20CN (so only ADSL Max - although I *think* our exchange is supposed to be upgraded to 21CN this year, so we may at least get ADSL2+), and no cabinets, plus being a small hamlet (< 50 properties): so I won't hold my breath on being upgraded anytime soon...!
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Fri 09-Mar-18 11:57:04
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
You should not feel guilty at all, even if it doesn't work. Your suggestions are extremely helpful, and the only thing I have to go on right now (apart from the hope that openreach indications are correct). I'm sure I'll use the equipment at other times/locations.

I'm taking a 3-4m telescopic pole and taping the ariel to the top. Router will be powered from car, and as you suggest I'll try it without the external aerial first. Providing I don't get arrested for doing such an odd thing, I'll report back the results!
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Fri 09-Mar-18 13:28:45
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Well, if you do eventually get the hoped-for FTTP, a 4G connection will still be a useful backup link if it works ok. Plus it's portable, so can be used in other locations, as you mentioned.
If we ever get FTTC or FTTP where I live, I think I'd keep the 4G link as a "fail-over" backup option - especially as our overhead cable route is potentially susceptible to damage (trees / high winds, etc), or any other of the more usual outages.

Hopefully you won't get arrested, ha ha! Good Luck anyway.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Fri 09-Mar-18 18:20:02
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Hi Adam,

I've got the MR200 and I've a quick question as I fiddle with it, just in case you've gone down this path..Is it possible to connect to the router remotely from the internet (or devices connected to it on the LAN)?

Looks like there's a technical limitation on all 4g devices to do with CGNAT, which I am just learning about, which stops this. Just wondered if its something you've managed to do.

I've tried accessing the routers public 4G ip address directly with no success (EE 4G).
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-18 19:09:20
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Are you aware you cannot just ask for a ‘stage 1 install’ its the whole shebang or nowt.

Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Fri 09-Mar-18 19:11:53
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Yes, but presumably you can cancel after stage 1 and before stage 2.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 09-Mar-18 19:15:38
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
And pay the costs

Also a risk that an abandoned order may have problems when trying to subsequently order after moving in.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Fri 09-Mar-18 20:21:12
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
I must admit, I haven't yet had the need to access the 4G router remotely.
I had heard about the CGNAT issues. For example: ISPReview Forum Thread (may provide some ideas of a solution).
Also: Another ISPReview Forum Thread

Maybe a Dynamic DNS service (e.g. No-IP) could work? Setting up DDNS on Archer MR200

The thing is, I still use my slow ADSL link (as it does have unlimited data allowance), and combine it with the 4G link, with Load Balancing via the DrayTek. So, for remote access to my LAN, I can use the ADSL link if required. I'd always think of 4G as a "turbo boost" (plus backup link) for the ADSL connection (and if I use all my 4G data before the month is up, I've still got that slower but unlimited data link to fall back on).

It may be possible to find a work-around for the CGNAT (e.g. via a VPN, or other means - another example: CGNAT Workaround): it's more of an issue if 4G is going to be your *only* internet connection.

Others here may be able to provide further advice.

Good luck with the MR200.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Sat 10-Mar-18 00:40:15
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Understood - but there must be some solution here, rather than just walking away. It does not say cancelling an order at any point makes it more difficult to order at a later date, and I have offered to fund a survey by Openreach/BT, but they are not interested.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Sat 10-Mar-18 00:44:33
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Adam - you've given me some interesting things to look at there. I can't expect everything from 4g, and it does seem much improved using the router instead of tethering using my phone. Will see what its like at the location.
Standard User craski
(committed) Sat 10-Mar-18 08:10:13
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadbandFlash:
Looking for another option for a house we are buying in mid Wales. This _may_ have a fibre option, but the copper connection if that doesn' t happen is only <2mb.


You are correct to proceed with caution. My brother just bought a house and had checked available options and FTTC was showing at 50Mb. The day after move in and BT guy turns up to install the "fibre" broadband and he was told he can only get ADSL at 1Mb. Currently in limbo awaiting an in depth check from BT as to what has gone wrong but no guarantees given.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Sat 10-Mar-18 09:50:57
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: craski] [link to this post]
 
Hi Craski,

I'm very sorry hear your brother is in that situation. This is my fear also. What part of the country is that if you don't mind me asking?

Also was this issue discovered on the first visit by bt?(I'm not sure whether FTTC is a two stage install like FTTP is)

See the other bits of this thread on 4g in case its of use to him.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 10-Mar-18 11:04:01
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
"It does not say cancelling an order at any point makes it more difficult to order at a later date"

I know it does not say that, but experience from when people try and be clever with standard broadband migrations, provides shows that doing things that are outside the normal parameters can leave codes within systems that confuse subsequent orders.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 10-Mar-18 11:05:27
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
FTTC involves no visits to the home

Would need to have details of the location to comment on the FTTC, but most common reason for this is that a cabinet has run out of line card ports.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Sat 10-Mar-18 13:22:24
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks MrSaffron. I understand it looks cheeky, but this course was actually suggested by a BT customer services rep, and also by a member of the Superfast Cymru team. I've literally tried every other avenue and offered to pay any costs.

In my oppinion, they (openreach) really need to offer a (paid for) survey as an option in these circumstances. The whole point of Superfast Cymru was to encourage people such as us to move to Wales and work from there, and yet we cannot guarantee that is the case even when there's a fibre node 100 meters away.

There are a couple of other small issues with the house we are in the process of ironing out, but really the last major issue is whether or not I could work from there.
Standard User craski
(committed) Sat 10-Mar-18 17:59:36
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
It is in Aberdeenshire. The previous owner only had ADSL and my brother was able to order infinity and it was only on day of install that BT engineer doing job (reconnect line and broadband install) said it was ADSL only. Since that happened, the number no longer shows FTTC as available on the DSL checker. Dont want to hijack your thread but just wanted to let you know that exercising caution doesn't do any harm if guarantee of decent broadband is important to you.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User craski
(committed) Sat 10-Mar-18 18:03:33
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
most common reason for this is that a cabinet has run out of line card ports.


Yeah, hopefully it is something like this that can be resolved and he isnt left with 1Mb ADSL as his only fixed line option.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Tue 13-Mar-18 22:24:26
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
The owners have refused us the stage 1 install, and said if we don't exchange this Friday they will withdraw.

Not looking good then.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Mar-18 08:49:35
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
So time to let the property go then

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Wed 14-Mar-18 09:12:59
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
We're going down to see if there's any chance of 4g. Doubt it, but worth a try.

Would you take the risk on fttp being there out of interest?.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Mar-18 09:35:33
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Without actually having walked the area to see how far away existing FTTP customers are hard to say...

Given the confusion the hard stop on work in Wales created and the distance to infrastructure you have mentioned I'd not take the risk. If the ADSL/ADSL2+ speeds were in the 5 to 10 Mbps region then I would.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Wed 14-Mar-18 13:08:37
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
Good Luck with your 4G testing!

Remember, even if none of the signal-strength bars are lit-up on the router, it's still possible to get a stable connection to the router (in my experience). Also, anything 5Mbps downstream & over will be usable for remote desktop work (but aim for 10Mbps or better, & ideally 1Mbps or better upstream). You may have to test the router in many locations around the house - the best thing if possible would be to test it inside the house upstairs, in all the rooms (or even the attic!), if you had access - but failing that, in as many locations around the house as possible. I'd set up a link from your smartphone to the MR200's WiFi before leaving for testing, and also install the "Speedtest" app (from Ookla) on your phone too (if you haven't already). Don't forget to set the "Network Mode" of the MR200 to "4G Only" (in the "Internet" section under the "Basic" settings for the MR200's web page), as otherwise it may switch over to the slower 2G or 3G links, depending on signal (although - if you can't pick up 4G, you could also test it in "3G Only" and "Auto" modes too, if you have the time while on-site, to see if 3G would be viable).

Even if the 4G signal isn't too great at the moment, it usually improves over time as the mobile companies upgrade their masts in most localities.

Good Luck anyway - I hope it goes well! smile
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Wed 14-Mar-18 20:15:49
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Hi Adam,

I set it to 4g, with an EE 4g sim, and one of us was outside the car with the aerial on the end of a extendable paint roller pole. What a sight.

We had consistently 1 bar on the router with this set up, and I did a quick browsing the internet test on a connected iPad. Farmer appeared, so then later went back to check again and there was no bar, but was able to remote desktop and watch some of an Amazon Prime film on tablet at same time.

Didn't think about doing a speed test...damn.

We also chatted to the neighbours some 200 metres from the house, and they said they use their standard ADSL (which should be <3mb according to my DSL checker) to watch Netflix, iPlayer etc. They said it has been fine so they'd not bothered installing a TV satellite dish yet after being there for 1 year.

They also showed us a letter from the Superfast Cymru poeple saying your area is now active for FTTP, even though I could not order if for their address.

There's a couple of 60 foot high pine trees on the property...not sure if a 4G aerial would work better up there with them swaying in the wind. The cost of 4g is prohibitive ofcourse, but perhaps that in combination with the ADSL may be ok if FTTP isn't there.

So, it looks rather better than I had hoped? What do you think?
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Wed 14-Mar-18 22:29:34
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
That does sound promising! smile
If you got 1 bar (even if not always) at ground level, then usually you should get an even better signal (maybe 2 bars or more) upstairs from the house - with 4G, the higher the better is usually true.

It's a shame you didn't run a speed test.

Yes, due to the data caps, 4G is expensive. I currently have a 32Gb per month SIM-only rolling 30-day contract. The usual EE Data SIM-only details are here: EE Data SIM-only (I'd choose "30-day" plans) - but I managed to find a special half-price deal on HotUKDeals (HotUKDeals EE) around a year ago now - paying £14.50 per month for the 32Gb. As a "turbo boost" (plus backup link) for my 2.5Mbps ADSL, it works quite well. HotUKDeals do have periodic special offers on Data SIMs that people come across.

Also, EE do special Mobile Broadband packages, with much higher data caps (up to 200Gb) - but not SIM-only, these packages include a router, plus optionally EE's own external aerial. It can get quite expensive if you are adding these to an ADSL package! However, you can opt for a 30-day contract (which I would advise), although you have to pay £99 up-front for the router. A shame as you already have the MR200! It would be nice if EE did a 200Gb SIM-only deal.

Don't forget - the TP-Link Archer MR200 is unlocked, so can accept SIMs for any of the mobile companies, EE, Vodafone, O2 & Three, so it may be worth trying a test SIM of the other networks at some point.

At least you now know you can get a 4G signal at the property using the 4G router (probably a better signal upstairs from the house too), so it gives you a reasonable backup option. Hopefully 4G data allowances will increase over time too.

I wouldn't want to advise you either way on whether to go ahead with purchasing said property though, based on just that!

The FTTP situation does sound quite optimistic too.

I understand that a standard ADSL link that has a downstream speed of 2Mbps or more, can stream SD (standard definition) video reasonably well (although 3Mbps or higher is probably recommended).

So - in summary - it does seem that combining an ADSL link with 4G (e.g. via load balancing) *could* be a viable option.

Maybe other forum members can add their advice to this?
Standard User broadbandFlash
(learned) Wed 14-Mar-18 23:44:58
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: AdamInTheSticks] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Adam. That monthly EE pack looks of interest. Expensive, but less than satellite. I think, from asking the locals, EE have the better coverage in the area. Not sure if that router has a sim socket and therefore whether you could use the MR200 instead. Guess I'll think about that at the time.

The one bar was at around 2.5 metres height on the road side with antenna up pole. I think I could go at least twice that height on the property though with either a cabled mast, or perhaps fastening to a very tall tree (not sure if the movement may affect things though).

We may go back to the area tomorrow, in which case I'll run a speed test.
Standard User AdamInTheSticks
(regular) Thu 15-Mar-18 11:33:41
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Re: Current Satellite Broadband Supplier Recommendations


[re: broadbandFlash] [link to this post]
 
I would think you can just take the SIM supplied as part of EE's "Mobile Broadband" package and put it into your MR200, and use the MR200 with your own antenna. OR, you could use the EE router with your own external antenna. Or any combination - should be possible. As you say, something to think about nearer the time.

Yes, a cabled mast would be good. You could use something like a "J-Pole" antenna mount (or similar) to attach your antenna to the side of the house, at a suitable high-up location: Antenna Mounts.

Of course, if you opt for EE's external antenna, they will supply & install it for an extra £100 apparently.

Yes, run a speed test if you do go back again (and in different locations, if you can) - good idea. (Also, try the router with it's own built-in antennae - I found that in some locations, they can even be better than the external antenna, under certain circumstances!).

Good Luck!

Edited by AdamInTheSticks (Thu 15-Mar-18 11:45:05)

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