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Standard User csimon
(experienced) Fri 07-Feb-14 16:31:14
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Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[link to this post]
 
I'm with Breathe (by default, as my original ISP was taken over by them) and in November 2011 I was moved from my existing ADLSMax "up to 8Mbps" package onto to their "new infrastructure" and "up to 24Mbps", and they told me in an email that I was now on the maximum speed available from my exchange. I take it this means Talk Talk LLU, since that's around the time TT came into my exchange and I believe Breather use the Talk Talk backbone - first of all, is that right?

I immediately saw an increase in connect speed of around 30%-40% and this was sustained for a year.

Recently, it's gone down again to the levels it was at before and I've put in a query, thinking I've been moved back to ADSL. Now they're saying I was never on ADSL2+, I'm only on ADSL, even though it's an "up to 24Mbps" plan, and the cost would have been more for ADSL2+.

It was never explicitly stated to me that I had been moved to ADSL2+ in Nov 2011, the wording was as shown above in the first paragraph, so I guess they could be right in that I was never moved onto ADSL2+. but is this possible? Isn't Talk Talk LLU automatically ADSL2+, especially if they told me I was now at the maximum possible - they wouldn't have said that if I'd remained on ADSLMax throughout the change. Something caused the dramatic speed increase when the change was made. And isn't is misleading to advertise and sell an "up to 24Mbps" plan if they only put people onto ADSLMax therefore it's impossible to reach anywhere near that speed? Their packages don't differentiate between ADSL and ADSL2+, they just call it "up to 24Mbps ADSL".
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Feb-14 16:39:12
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: csimon] [link to this post]
 
What speed did you actually get when it was faster?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User csimon
(experienced) Fri 07-Feb-14 16:43:26
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
700-850Kbps.

Now it's 400-500Kbps.

Yes, I'm on a long line. That's why every little counts! but it does represent a big percentage drop.


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Feb-14 16:54:08
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: csimon] [link to this post]
 
Counter-intuitively, at that line length ADSL2+ is frequently worse than ADSL2, and ADSL is sometimes the best of the three. I think we need to look closer at what could be going on.

Do you know how to get your line stats from your router? Connection speeds, attenuations and noise margins being the most important. There may also be a Mode: G.DMT; G.992.1; G.992.3; G.992.5? What make and model router is it please?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 07-Feb-14 16:56:20)

Standard User csimon
(experienced) Fri 07-Feb-14 17:03:50
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Not at my router at the moment, but attentuation from memory is around 68dB.

According to http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/radsl.html the speeds I've been seeing are quite consistent with ADSL and ADSL2+ and that ADSL2+ should be faster.

It's a Netgear DGN3500 I think. but will check everything when I get home!

Since had a reply from Breathe:


You are currently provisioned on an LLU ADSL product and the maximum available speed at your location being reported by our checkers is 576kbps. You are currently connected at 504kbps which is what you would expect with these results. This is the most appropriate product for your location and is the product that you are currently paying for.

In 2011 you were moved from BT's IP Stream service to the TalkTalk LLU service.


So again, this is consistent with the speed table if indeed it's only ADSL, and that ADSL2+ should be better. But I just can't explain the year I had at 800Kbps, which started as soon I was moved onto the LLU. I ha da phone line fault in Dec 2012 and that is actually when the speed drop happened - do you reckon Openreach gave me a pair that was worse than previously when they fixed it? (They definitely disconnected the line and reconnected at one point)
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 07-Feb-14 17:26:21
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: csimon] [link to this post]
 
You could well be being supplied with Up-to-24 Meg TT LLU ADSL2+ but you line is far too long to benefit from it and it would sense that and auto downgrade you to ADSL2 or ADSL1. Maybe the speed changes you see are as it tries to swap between those.

Post your router stats and we will know for sure.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Feb-14 17:31:33
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: csimon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by csimon:
I had a phone line fault in Dec 2012 and that is actually when the speed drop happened - do you reckon Openreach gave me a pair that was worse than previously when they fixed it? (They definitely disconnected the line and reconnected at one point)
You didn't mention that before. That is almost certainly the cause. In fact I lost 700kbps when I had a pair swap. Fortunately that was from about 6000kbps so not as painful as yours.

The reason you would have had the speed rise when they moved you to LLU would be because you stopped being hit by the BT Wholesale IP Profile structure, which at low connection speeds is a real pain. (Scroll down to the table if you can't see it).

And, tongue, I think you are misreading that FAQ.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 07-Feb-14 17:36:07
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: csimon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by csimon:
So again, this is consistent with the speed table if indeed it's only ADSL, and that ADSL2+ should be better.
Have you accounted for the fact that moving up to ADSL2+ usually increases your attenuation by about 3dB? So you need to read those tables at 71 dB for ADSL2+.

So it quite possible that the change of speed you saw was a switch from ADSL1 to ADSL2+.

Does your router have a setting (not a status) where you can change ADSL Mode?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User csimon
(experienced) Fri 07-Feb-14 17:52:46
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Do you know how to get your line stats from your router? Connection speeds, attenuations and noise margins being the most important. There may also be a Mode: G.DMT; G.992.1; G.992.3; G.992.5? What make and model router is it please?


Netgear DGN3500

Connection speed: 504 down
Attenuation: 68.1db
Noise Margin: 5.2db

Can't see a Mode at first glance.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 07-Feb-14 19:39:06
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Re: Breathe Internet - TalkTalk LLU, ADSL2+?


[re: csimon] [link to this post]
 
That's the trouble with Netgears; they don't show ADSL Mode unless they do Telnet. Has yours a Telnet I/f? Try this http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleav... but ignore the interleaving aspect; just get the stats.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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