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Standard User TimJ
(member) Sun 03-Jul-11 12:34:03
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New customer Market 2 or Market 3


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I helped a friend to sign up on Tuesday. He is connected to Malvern exchange (WMMAL) which according to samknows has 6 suppliers and is thus a market 3 exchange.

On trying to sign-up it gave us the market 1/2 price, so called up. Sales said that there was nothing he could do, he could only go by what his system said, so put us through to technical support.

Very helpful chap, checked samknows and agreed that it is a Market 3 exchange, and that Plusnet internal lists were out of date and were in the process of being updated. He told us to sign up then raise a ticket and he would be put on the lower charging.

That is what we did. However the response from the ticket was to the effect "We agree that it appears to be a Market 3 exchange, but ofcom has not listed it as such. You will have to take it up with Ofcom" (It has only been read to me over the phone, so it is not word perfect, but the meaning is correct)

Now according to the Ofcom link at the bottom of this plusnet low cost area page Ofcom has a definition of Market 3 not a list.

We know another Plusnet user on this exchange who is paying the lower cost.

How should we proceed? He does not want to continue if he will not get the lower cost, I guess he has 7 days (until Tuesday) to cancel.

Thanks

Tim.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 03-Jul-11 13:44:51
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: TimJ] [link to this post]
 
OfCom does in fact have a list, which Plusnet then adhere to. This list is updated once or twice a year I think, depending on the number of suppliers at the time.

Once OfCom list it as Market 3, Openreach charge less for service on it, which is why Plusnet can charge less.

Note that the exchange in question does not have 6 "principal operators", and that even in samknows it shows as Market 2. Strictly speaking it has BT Wholesale, TalkTalk and Sky, unless the forecast C & W has materialised. AOL and Tiscali have long been part of TalkTalk, and Orange LLU is now dead - having been replaced by a white label service from BT Wholesale.

It is possible it used to be Market 3, when Orange were LLU and TT hadn't taken over Tiscali. Which could explain the person you know on that exchange getting the M3 price. I wonder what will happen if Plusnet realise?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 03-Jul-11 13:51:02
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Further to my previous post, Malvern was indeed moved from M3 to M2 in December 2010 - see Appendix 5 of the latest OfCom document - this page.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 03-Jul-11 13:59:38)


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Standard User camieabz
(legend) Sun 03-Jul-11 14:20:59
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This should not involve Ofcom from the user's perspective. Plusnet should clearly state which market classification they perceive it to be, and allow the customer to decide.

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

Live BQM

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User TimJ
(member) Sun 03-Jul-11 14:23:40
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Wow, many thanks for taking the time for a very full and comprehensive reply, very much appreciated

I had used a list of "principal operators" from Kitz site that included AOL, Orange and Tiscali, but that is obviously out of date.

I have now seen the Plusnet ticket response and I love this sentence
If we were to put you into a different market area to the OFCOM listing this would cause your broadband to not work correctly


Anyway it is clear that my friend has a choice of sticking with dial-up or paying more with a realistic hope for market 3 pricing in the near future. And we keep quiet about our friend smile


Tim
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 03-Jul-11 14:47:45
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: TimJ] [link to this post]
 
He could go to Sky LLU which is one of the best. He doesn't need to move his phone rental to them, in fact I advise against that, but Sky Talk for the calls is OK. Sky TV is no longer a requirement either, just the price is £2.50 higher IIRC.

That ticket response is hilarious!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 03-Jul-11 14:48:33)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 03-Jul-11 14:50:03
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
This should not involve Ofcom from the user's perspective. Plusnet should clearly state which market classification they perceive it to be, and allow the customer to decide.
They clearly (correctly) perceive it to be Market 2. Just the phone calls to support have confused the script-monkeys.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 03-Jul-11 15:02:10
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: TimJ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TimJ:
Now according to the Ofcom link at the bottom of this plusnet low cost area page Ofcom has a definition of Market 3 not a list.
The linked (2008) OfCom document does in fact include lists of the M1, 2,and 3 exchanges at the time.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Sun 03-Jul-11 15:41:09
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by camieabz:
This should not involve Ofcom from the user's perspective. Plusnet should clearly state which market classification they perceive it to be, and allow the customer to decide.
They clearly (correctly) perceive it to be Market 2. Just the phone calls to support have confused the script-monkeys.


That's my point. There shoudn't have been an offer of market 3 if it can't be honoured.

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

Live BQM

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User TimJ
(member) Sun 03-Jul-11 16:31:15
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Re: New customer Market 2 or Market 3


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Some questions if I can

Are C&W considered a "principal operator"? - If they are we can expect Malvern to once again become a market 3 exchange in the nearish future.

My friend is on a VERY long line (possibly 9km) so it all may come to nothing, One neighbour has working ADSL, another has resorted to satellite. So I suspect that the quality of support is important, so PlusNet might well be a better option.

There is hope in that Malvern is scheduled for FTTC in late 2012, Do FTTC products come at a higher price? When an exchange is enabled for FTTC is it just BT wholesale or do all LLU suppliers benefit as well?

Thanks

Tim
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