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Standard User CMEdinburgh
(newbie) Sat 04-Feb-12 11:19:27
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Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[link to this post]
 
When those nice people at BT installed Fibre at our local cabinet, I researched the market for providers, looking at BT and all the others who could offer me a FTTC package.

After a lot of thought and comparisons, I joined IDNet 14 months ago, and for all of that time experienced rock steady speeds - with DL 37 mbps, UL 8 mbps, varying by only decimal points during that period.

IDNet's tariff charges only on the maximum peak time download per month (no charges for uploads or overnight downloading) and after a couple of months I was on the correct tariff, with a pretty steady 30GB per month usage.

Downloads were amazingly fast, and even uploading pictures to Flickr or video to YouTube never seemed too bad.

However, IDNet are not cheap. OK I know a Merc or BMW costs more than a Mondeo, but the cost was high enough that I was aware of it.

So at the end of my one year contract I looked around and found another ISP (PlusNet) with which I had good experience in a rental property I look after. After a bit of calculation, I worked out that my 30 GB usage would cost far less on PlusNet so migrated.

Now, I was really sad to leave IDNet - I had loved the helpfulness of the team and the forum, but I thought that this was a positive move.

So - why am I posting this?

Well, firstly, I found out that PlusNet charge for both UL AND DL data, so my usage was going to push me into the next tariff up. That on its own largely erased the cost saving I had planned to make.

The download speeds were good but noticeably slower than my IDNet experience too. Speed tests on various sites showed it fluctuating between 30 mbps and 35 mbps but with real peaks and dips (on a line which had been totally stable in connect speeds for over a year).

And on my first day with PlusNet there was a huge service interruption, on a day when I critically needed good access. Cue working on my iPad on my Three contract.

Then I discovered that as PlusNet profile bandwidth, if I wanted to watch Netflix or download video that was shaped unless I paid another £5 per month!

THEN I found out that PlusNet also cap UL speeds at 2mbps, and I was only getting just over 1mbps UL - so my video and image uploads were suddenly going to not only be charged but take a long, long time!

So - back to my spreadsheet and it worked out that I was actually cheaper when I was on IDNet for my usage (which is not high, really) and I would get the whole bandwidth for which I was paying - no caps or profiling!

So a rapid cancellation later, I am returning to IDNet, wiser, chastened, and very unlikely to go after "greener grass" elsewhere again without a huge amount of research and a lot of thought.

And getting the MAC code? Well, when I left IDNet, I got the code by email and text within three minutes. PlusNet want a working week to produce a simple code. They really do know how to inflame things.

Had they just accepted my (virtually immediate) cancellation I would have left quietly. But now I am really angry - I was not given the correct information on the tariff when I signed up (no mention of the upload caps or upload charging) and am being tied to an ISP I do not want to be with.
Standard User kasg
(experienced) Sat 04-Feb-12 11:46:19
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: CMEdinburgh] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm, DYOR seems to be the moral of the story. I knew all of this when I signed up to the 18 months fibre contract because I made a point of finding out. So far, apart from the infamous incident this week, I am very happy with it. As for charging for uploads, I honestly thought everyone counted uploads in the allowance these days.

Kevin

plusnet Extra Fibre
My Broadband Speed Test
Using OpenDNS
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Sat 04-Feb-12 11:51:24
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
Agree on the uploads. Always thought it was total transfered data which counterd towards usage.

Not sure about the MAC code issue though. Why does it have to take a week, if others can do it in minutes? Surely two working days would be the absolute maximum (especially in these days of faster broadband - yes that's irony).

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2012

All Connection Data ~ plusnet

Scottish Labour politician: “The SNP are on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.”

Interviewer: ”Is that a bad thing?”

Scottish Labour politician: “No, but they are doing it deliberately.”


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 04-Feb-12 12:08:47
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Agree on the uploads. Always thought it was total transfered data which counterd towards usage
Not IDNet. Not AAISP. Not Zen. That's without even thinking.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User wingco1
(legend) Sat 04-Feb-12 12:34:50
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Why does it have to take a week, if others can do it in minutes
Because they can. Good honest broadband from Yorkshire. frown
Standard User kasg
(experienced) Sat 04-Feb-12 13:50:44
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Agree on the uploads. Always thought it was total transferred data which counted towards usage
Not IDNet. Not AAISP. Not Zen. That's without even thinking.
I'll bear that in mind if ever my uploads are likely to get anywhere near my downloads!

Kevin

plusnet Extra Fibre
My Broadband Speed Test
Using OpenDNS
Standard User kasg
(experienced) Sat 04-Feb-12 13:52:20
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: wingco1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wingco1:
Why does it have to take a week, if others can do it in minutes
Because they can. Good honest broadband from Yorkshire. frown
This has been discussed many times recently and the Plusnet reps have indicated that they will try to exert some influence to get the policy changed. I agree that it is a bad policy, likely to lose Plusnet custom in the long run rather than retain it.

Kevin

plusnet Extra Fibre
My Broadband Speed Test
Using OpenDNS
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Sat 04-Feb-12 14:02:06
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
That's without even thinking.


Be reasonable. You spend a considerable amount of your time making yourself aware of such subjects. smile

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2012

All Connection Data ~ plusnet

Scottish Labour politician: “The SNP are on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.”

Interviewer: ”Is that a bad thing?”

Scottish Labour politician: “No, but they are doing it deliberately.”
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 04-Feb-12 14:04:43
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Be reasonable. You spend a considerable amount of your time making yourself aware of such subjects. smile
Which proves my point. I'm mindless smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 05-Feb-12 14:33:06
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: CMEdinburgh] [link to this post]
 
A prime example of doing your research.

But ISPs can make it particularly complicated with all sorts of exceptions, tarriffs and "upgrades" like PlusNet seem to do. This is why I recommend skipping them and going to their father - BT. Either you get the full fat cream version (unlimited, 10Mbit upload) or go for the semi skimmed (40GB usage and 2Mbit upload).

---
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
Speedtest Tracking
ISP Representative orbrey
(isp) Mon 06-Feb-12 13:16:46
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: CMEdinburgh] [link to this post]
 
Hi CMEdinburgh,

Sorry that our tariff didn't work out for you, though I can understand what you're saying. Any chance you could drop me a PM with your username or a ticket ID so I can have a look and see what we can do for you?

Regards,

Matthew Taylor
Plusnet Customer Support
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User m0aur
(committed) Mon 06-Feb-12 17:32:46
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: CMEdinburgh] [link to this post]
 
When PN were asked why they charge varying rates depending on exchange status, the answer was the same as when asked why they make users wait five days for a MAC - "Because we can!" which says it all really and probably applies to the shifty £3 Broadband ads which don't actually tell the real rate for a Market 1 exchange. If a BT claim to the first router to switch channels can be challenged, I expect someone will challenge this ridiculous "Honest broadband" claim.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2027/plusnetspeed.jpg
Fora - Where everybody knows everything - Everyone else knows nothing!
ISP Representative mkelly
(isp) Mon 06-Feb-12 21:11:02
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: m0aur] [link to this post]
 
I believe we go into a little more detail than that regarding market areas.

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/products/low_c...

That page is linked to from the home page.

Mark

Best Regards

Mark Kelly
Business Services Manager
PlusNet PLC
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User m0aur
(committed) Mon 06-Feb-12 22:20:25
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: mkelly] [link to this post]
 
Not in the junk-mail that comes through the letterbox you don't - just a vague mention in the small print about a low cost area. TV ad not much better. Neither mention activation or caller display charges, or for that matter the £17.99p I pay for a restricted service on Market 1.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2027/plusnetspeed.jpg
Fora - Where everybody knows everything - Everyone else knows nothing!
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Feb-12 09:04:29
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: m0aur] [link to this post]
 
Not dissimilar to Sky, O2 and any reseller of LLU. If LLU is available then it is cheaper and better. If it isn't then you pay more for a lesser service.

Only difference with Plusnet is that they are the only ISP (that I know of) that pass on the lower charging from BT for areas that have competition. In that way Plusnet are far more honest than the others who charge the same even where the BT wholesale charges are lower. I haven't really watched the ads so don't know how clear it is made the difference in pricing but the practice of charging according to what is available in the exchange is very widespread.
Standard User wingco1
(legend) Tue 07-Feb-12 15:10:50
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Only difference with Plusnet is that they are the only ISP (that I know of) that pass on the lower charging from BT for areas that have competition

There is a another difference with Plusnet, they are the only ISP (that I know of) that make you wait five days for a MAC. smile
Standard User flippery
(newbie) Tue 07-Feb-12 16:05:25
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Only difference with Plusnet is that they are the only ISP (that I know of) that pass on the lower charging from BT for areas that have competition. In that way Plusnet are far more honest than the others who charge the same even where the BT wholesale charges are lower.

Are all wholesale charges the same, after all Plusnet are owned by BT Group.
I looked at trying Plusnet however, found prices a lot more expensive than on advert ( prices from ""). Being market 1 I would have to pay more for capped with Plusnet than I pay now for Uncapped with TalkTalk Business.
Moderator Sadoldman
(moderator) Wed 08-Feb-12 08:31:14
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by flippery:
Are all wholesale charges the same, after all Plusnet are owned by BT Group.
I looked at trying Plusnet however, found prices a lot more expensive than on advert ( prices from ""). Being market 1 I would have to pay more for capped with Plusnet than I pay now for Uncapped with TalkTalk Business.

My bold
Do you think for one moment that all other ISPs would allow a "special" price for the provision of internet services to any particular ISP....there would be a stampede to Ofcom.smile

I agree that to my knowledge PN are the only ISP that offers the discount received for Market 2 and 3. They run a business and no doubt feel that this action promotes their business model,..... for those it suits it is a good deal I would have thought.

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...wink

don@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Feb-12 11:21:51
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Re: Is the grass really greener elsewhere?


[re: wingco1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wingco1:
Only difference with Plusnet is that they are the only ISP (that I know of) that pass on the lower charging from BT for areas that have competition

There is a another difference with Plusnet, they are the only ISP (that I know of) that make you wait five days for a MAC. smile


OK, if you are getting to get picky there are many differences, I meant only (or possibly most relevant) difference in this context wink

I could also mention plusnets addition to the horrible BT profiling system that results in having to wait for 2 profiles to update - that is the one I really don't like and has on several occasions added additional delay for my parents line updating...
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