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Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 13:31:26
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FTTC modem cable question?


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Hi All

Is the BTOR FTTC modem a "simple" cable like any other such modem one i.e. and RJ11 at ach end and that is 2 wires only connected to the two central pins or is it fully four wired???

TIA smile
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 25-Oct-13 13:54:03
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
It only gets fed from two wires so four would be unnecessary even if present smile. As a standard dangly filter will work instead of an Openreach VDSL2 faceplate, the pins must be the same as for ADSLx.

Whether the cable quality is a higher standard I greatly doubt, but it isn't impossible.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 55.8/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 25-Oct-13 14:03:14
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
The BT Openreach modem, like all DSL equipment other than unusual variants (like G.SHDSL on two pairs) connects to a single pair of wires. Only pins 3 and 4 (the central pair) of the RJ11 connector are used.

The standard RJ11 cable supplied with the Huawei modem is flat. I chose to replace mine with a twisted pair RJ11 cable.


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Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 14:12:09
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Thanks both for the feedback that it is such a basic cable.

The reason I asked was I am anticipating the FTTC availability by the end of December (according to BDUK in Surrey) and I already have a UTP cable between the master socket and my Router located approx. 15ft away in the upstairs bedroom used as my office.

So based on the fact that AFAIK such a UTP cable is the "best" for such modem usage I am hoping that the BTOR engineer will use that and place the modem in the office. That is best case scenario.............................I am also looking at replacing that cable with a CAT5e or CAT6 which I could use as the modem cable if the engineer is OK doing so. But if he plays hardball at least the CAT cable will be there ready to be 're-plugged' to link the Ethernet port to the Router in the office.

The hurdle I have is pulling the CAT cable through a hole that is a tad too small a diameter???

Lots to think about to get ready for FTTC smile

Edited by Routefinder (Fri 25-Oct-13 14:13:43)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 25-Oct-13 15:04:55
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Why do you want to place the modem in your office? The best way is arguably to leave the modem at the master socket and use your Category 5e cable as an Ethernet cable to the router in your office. The less cable carrying the VDSL2 signal through your house, the less chance of anything interfering with it.

This assumes that you have power near your master socket to power the modem. I keep on meaning to get hold of a Power over Ethernet splitter capable of providing the correct voltage to the modem to see if I can power the modem remotely. Unfortunately, this is stuck on my lengthy "to do" list behind many other projects.


You may find this lengthy recent thread worth reading. The original poster finished up with the modem at the master socket and an Ethernet cable to his router upstairs. Though this involves a bit of DIY, all the instructions and even links to some suggested products are in my posts in that thread. The original poster posted links to some photographic instructions of how to put it together.

Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 16:12:54
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
Why do you want to place the modem in your office? The best way is arguably to leave the modem at the master socket and use your Category 5e cable as an Ethernet cable to the router in your office. The less cable carrying the VDSL2 signal through your house, the less chance of anything interfering with it.

This assumes that you have power near your master socket to power the modem. I keep on meaning to get hold of a Power over Ethernet splitter capable of providing the correct voltage to the modem to see if I can power the modem remotely. Unfortunately, this is stuck on my lengthy "to do" list behind many other projects.


You may find this lengthy recent thread worth reading. The original poster finished up with the modem at the master socket and an Ethernet cable to his router upstairs. Though this involves a bit of DIY, all the instructions and even links to some suggested products are in my posts in that thread. The original poster posted links to some photographic instructions of how to put it together.


Hi David

re running an Ethernet cable....................looking more & more like that is what I should be doing, just need to factor in the fact that the holes currently in the ceiling and floor have to be that tad larger. the ceiling one I am sure I can open up with a needle file juts not too sure yet about the hole in the office floor yet???

Thanks for the link, I will have a good read through. Others experiences are always worthwhile smile

Oh, the CAT5e I found with the smallest diameter is here http://www.maplin.co.uk/cat-5e-network-cable-utp-str... I surmise this would be OK ???
Standard User eddie1150
(member) Fri 25-Oct-13 16:20:52
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Cat5 is small enough to fit through most holes, just put the plugs/boxes on the end yourself!
As for making the holes bigger may i suggest a drill wink lol
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 16:29:08
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Routefinder:
Oh, the CAT5e I found with the smallest diameter is here http://www.maplin.co.uk/cat-5e-network-cable-utp-str... I surmise this would be OK ???


Solid core may be better than stranded if you don't need flexibility...
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 16:36:41
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: eddie1150] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eddie1150:
Cat5 is small enough to fit through most holes, just put the plugs/boxes on the end yourself!
As for making the holes bigger may i suggest a drill wink lol


Hi Eddie

Well the hole in the ceiling is about dead on 5mm and the narrow CAT5e I linked to is 5.25mm so that is an interference fit...............not best when pulling cable IMO wink And yes I would crimp my own RJ45's as needed (as noted above ~ I would assuming I can get this done sooner rather than later initially put RJ11 or BT plugs on before FTTC comes to my place) but for now the hole in the floor is very hard to reach what with furniture blocking access.

As for a drill :lol: the holes are full of UTP phone cable that I would need to use to pull the CAT5e though I am thinking the pull should be 2 stage i.e. use the UTP phone cable to pull some high breaking strain nylon core with a monofilament and then use that to pull the CAT5e, just needs to be a well made strong "join" that is small enough to go through the holes.

So files not drill needed wink and for the record the holes are laterally displaced by about 6 to 8 inches so the pull does have two soft radius' to turn!
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 16:38:59
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
In reply to a post by Routefinder:
Oh, the CAT5e I found with the smallest diameter is here http://www.maplin.co.uk/cat-5e-network-cable-utp-str... I surmise this would be OK ???


Solid core may be better than stranded if you don't need flexibility...


Thanks for the insight but the holes are not aligned as noted above they are laterally displaced by 6 to 8inches so the pull will need some flexibility to avoid/reduce strain damage to the CAT5e
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 17:05:12
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
If the office floor has floorboards then you could consider lifting them - I've certainly done that when installing solid core CAT5e LAN and it can make the job much easier when the holes in the ceiling and floor are not aligned...also one can check that any electric cables under the floorboards are not disturbed if there is a need for drilling etc.
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 19:31:49
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
If the office floor has floorboards then you could consider lifting them - I've certainly done that when installing solid core CAT5e LAN and it can make the job much easier when the holes in the ceiling and floor are not aligned...also one can check that any electric cables under the floorboards are not disturbed if there is a need for drilling etc.


An ideal but I would not look forward to the furniture moving...............CAT5e is relatively cheap so may stick with trying to pull the stranded one and replace it with 'solid cored' when we need to empty the room to decorate as that will expose better access to the floorboards smile
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 20:46:07
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
I know the problem: the thought of moving furniture has put me off doing any decorating for years!

Best of luck smile
Standard User Jaggies
(committed) Fri 25-Oct-13 20:56:47
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
The thought of doing decorating has put me off moving furniture for years...

Brian
From September 2001 on BTopenworld Home 500/Home 1000/Home 2000. Then ADSLMax on <n>ildram. Moved to ADSL2+ from ADSL24. I'm now with plusnet. I'm not saying who I work for. Any opinions expressed here are my own.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 21:02:29
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Jaggies] [link to this post]
 
wink
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Fri 25-Oct-13 22:20:13
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Just found another question wink

In the case of buying CAT5e by the metre what is the difference between patch & non-patch variants??? I have noticed the Maplin page I linked does not mention patch but if you hover over the image of the cable and it magnifies the cable marking says "patch" ~ er!!!!

Bearing in mind for my purposes at this stage I will be crimping on RJ45 plugs and not wiring into network boxes.

Talking of crimping I have read that stranded core cable is more suitable than solid core for crimping the plugs!

Edited by Routefinder (Fri 25-Oct-13 22:41:35)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 23:44:31
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Yes, basically by using stranded CAT5e you will be making up a "patch" cable with rj45 plugs. Solid core is best suited for use with rj 45 sockets where one would use two short ethernet cables also: one from the modem to the downstairs rj45 socket and the other for the upstairs rj45 socket to the router.

I've used a 20 metre rj45 "patch" ethernet cable for testing a gigabit LAN setup prior to installing solid core CAT5e and it worked OK. For your setup, where initially gigabit speeds wont be needed for FTTC, a long patch cable should be fine.

BTW. Because FTTC is now available to my neighbours and myself I've got all the kit ready to go: solid core, 4 pair, 100% copper CAT5e, rj45 sockets, filtered NTE5 faceplate, NTE5 master socket etc. - may need all that stuff since contract installers may not do a good job. Personally I'm not interested in getting vdsl myself at the moment because a 13Mbps ADSL2+ sync is adequate for my needs but I'm certain some of my neighbours will smile

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 26-Oct-13 00:11:30)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 26-Oct-13 00:01:24
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Patch cable will be stranded for flexibility.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 55.8/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Sat 26-Oct-13 00:37:20
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks both for the added insights smile

Now one last question wink

What do you find the best way to "join" either cable to cable or cable to cord for pulling through???

I am thinking that cable to cable, one should strip back to expose the cores on both cables and entwine/overlap the ends to make as firm a join as possible then over wrap the join tightly with electrical tape to hold the overlap together and reduce the potential for it to pull apart during the pull through. Possibly even using a piece of the outer insulator as sleeve.......................though of course this join must not be so stiff or fat or it will stick on the holes and lack flexibility to make the 'journey'.

So how to make the join supple enough ??? Maybe even strip the inner cores at differing lengths and solder them together having hooked them into each other ~ I say differing lengths to make sure that no two individual joins overlap and make the whole too thick & possibly this way keep the join supple enough??? But which method would be best for strength???
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sat 26-Oct-13 00:44:06
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Sorry never done wiring that way - I would lift the floorboards upstairs.
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Sat 26-Oct-13 11:51:46
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
"So how to make the join supple enough ??? Maybe even strip the inner cores at differing lengths and solder them together having hooked them into each other ~ I say differing lengths to make sure that no two individual joins overlap and make the whole too thick & possibly this way keep the join supple enough??? But which method would be best for strength???"

Don't solder them; but have the bare-wire overlap about 3+ cms long, wrapping the wires together in the old "PO Joint" (Post Office Telephones Wrapped Joint) manner, then some insulating tape to keep teach individual joint bound.

For the PO Joint, you may have seen similar used on parcel wire wrapping; or still in situ on elderly Overhead lines, using two separate uninsulated wires to pot insulators!

The PO version involves initially crossing "X" shape, the two bared lengths of the wires involved.

Then wrap the end length of one tightly and closely over the continuing length of the other - towards that other's insulation etc.

Do the same with the other "pair/side". etc.

------------------------------------------------------------

Regards pulling through holes etc (when reasonably in-line), I find (spring) Curtain Rod of use.

Occasionally when the holes are out-of-line, two separate bits of such rod with open hooks in the ends.

Feed each through the respective hole towards one another until they are likely to be over-lapping.

Then twist one or t'other, to get at least one of the open hooks engaging by twisting with either the other rod or its hook etc.

----------------------------------

Also the flexible metal strip from around "collapsible, folding" Laundry Baskets - the type with woven netting forming the sides..

And you may be able to form/distort it enough to find out-of-line holes.

Edited by eckiedoo (Sat 26-Oct-13 14:06:23)

Standard User TheFunkySpy
(knowledge is power) Sat 26-Oct-13 13:58:53
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This week I switched my stock modem cable for a Belkin one and lost a handful of MB. I think I made the dumb mistake of not powering down first.

Reason I bought the cable was that for the first time since activation in April I'd seen a slight speed drop from from 72MB to 69MB. Probably crosstalk but I thought a different/better cable was worth a try. I'll stick with it for another 3-4 days to see if DLM allows the speed to go back up again before switching the cable back.
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Sun 27-Oct-13 19:14:05
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
"So how to make the join supple enough ??? Maybe even strip the inner cores at differing lengths and solder them together having hooked them into each other ~ I say differing lengths to make sure that no two individual joins overlap and make the whole too thick & possibly this way keep the join supple enough??? But which method would be best for strength???"

Don't solder them; but have the bare-wire overlap about 3+ cms long, wrapping the wires together in the old "PO Joint" (Post Office Telephones Wrapped Joint) manner, then some insulating tape to keep teach individual joint bound.

For the PO Joint, you may have seen similar used on parcel wire wrapping; or still in situ on elderly Overhead lines, using two separate uninsulated wires to pot insulators!

The PO version involves initially crossing "X" shape, the two bared lengths of the wires involved.

Then wrap the end length of one tightly and closely over the continuing length of the other - towards that other's insulation etc.

Do the same with the other "pair/side". etc.

------------------------------------------------------------

Regards pulling through holes etc (when reasonably in-line), I find (spring) Curtain Rod of use.

Occasionally when the holes are out-of-line, two separate bits of such rod with open hooks in the ends.

Feed each through the respective hole towards one another until they are likely to be over-lapping.

Then twist one or t'other, to get at least one of the open hooks engaging by twisting with either the other rod or its hook etc.

----------------------------------

Also the flexible metal strip from around "collapsible, folding" Laundry Baskets - the type with woven netting forming the sides..

And you may be able to form/distort it enough to find out-of-line holes.


Did some Googling re the PO Joint......................and came up with the Western Union splice................them USA cousins seem to have gotten there first :lol: herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Western_Union_splice.jpg

Though FWIW it is recommended for solid cores rather than stranded wink

Edited by Routefinder (Sun 27-Oct-13 19:17:55)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 27-Oct-13 21:16:11
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Can you pull on the existing UTP phone cable from above, assuming you have created sufficient slack cable in the room downstairs, in order to test if it slides through easily. If it does then it might also be possible to pull 2 pair CAT5 through using the splice method. 2 pair CAT5 of a smaller diameter will not carry gigabit speeds but it may be sufficient in the short term for the modem to router 100Mbps connection?
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Sun 27-Oct-13 22:10:13
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Can you pull on the existing UTP phone cable from above, assuming you have created sufficient slack cable in the room downstairs, in order to test if it slides through easily. If it does then it might also be possible to pull 2 pair CAT5 through using the splice method. 2 pair CAT5 of a smaller diameter will not carry gigabit speeds but it may be sufficient in the short term for the modem to router 100Mbps connection?


Hi smile

I have not checked the current UTP phone cable for full mobility as there is furniture a tad in the way but it does move smile

In regard to 2pair CAT5 I have yet to find any ref to that on network cable suppliers sites. But having said that I was not looking :lol:

So just to clarify ~ Fibre Broadband if you are lucky depending on contract gets a max 80Mbps download speed to the modem and the 2 pair CAT5 is OK up to 100Mbps so is that rather a no brainer for any users of FTTC services as though the internal network can be Gigabit (as some of my connections are ~ my NAS and main PC are Gigabit and I use a Gigabit switch to connect them and the switch to the Router which is not Gigabit) the fact that at the Modem you currently, indeed for the quite long term foreseeable future, can only get the 80Mbps???

Right off to go find sources of 2 pair CAT5.............or is there a CAT5e version of that???

Edit:- OK found a couple of UK sources for 2pair CAT5e but only in bulk and it is FTP and costs a small fortune for 100M i.e. £285 & >£300 odd!!!! A US website has patch cables...................so the search continues especially the spec for the max diameter???

Edited by Routefinder (Sun 27-Oct-13 22:17:42)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 27-Oct-13 22:27:59
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16... is 2 pair 4mm diameter CAT5e, although it’s intended as a "data extension" kit which is a different setup to the one you are considering. However it should be possible to adapt it and use it for 100Mbps ethernet, but please take further advise regarding it's suitability...

BTW. A gentle push from below may ease the phone cable around corners whilst another person is pulling from above since the holes in the ceiling and floor are not aligned.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 27-Oct-13 22:32:15
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
BTW. A gentle push from below may ease the phone cable around corners whilst another person is pulling from above since the holes in the ceiling and floor are not aligned.
A very good point. A feed then pull in small amounts is an order of magnitude easier than just pulling.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 55.8/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 27-Oct-13 22:44:10
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by 4M2:
BTW. A gentle push from below may ease the phone cable around corners whilst another person is pulling from above since the holes in the ceiling and floor are not aligned.
A very good point. A feed then pull in small amounts is an order of magnitude easier than just pulling.


Hope it works, obviously moving furniture and lifting floorboards is currently not an option smile
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Sun 27-Oct-13 23:05:02
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by 4M2:
BTW. A gentle push from below may ease the phone cable around corners whilst another person is pulling from above since the holes in the ceiling and floor are not aligned.
A very good point. A feed then pull in small amounts is an order of magnitude easier than just pulling.


Hi

Many thanks for the link...........I could find no UK source for 2 pair CAT5e let alone for a white cable which to be frank is a must. The fact that the linked site product has more than I will need in the kit is no problem because as mentioned I will be re plugging it with RJ11 or BT plugs until FTTC comes along..............then doing the plugs to RJ45.

It says it is CAT5e so surely wiring the RJ45's (eventually) will as you say provide 100Mbps but as queried above is that indeed a no brainer. Oh, talking of wiring the RJ45 plugs? I have found all sorts of sites with lovely coloured diagrams for full 8 cores fitting but none for the 2 pair/4cores. Therefore are the colour codes on the linked site "simply" 2 of the colour coded pairs and they fit into the RJ45 in the appropriate pins??? Just thought, is there any reason to assume that the WAN lan port on the Fibre modem is expecting a full 8cores RJ45 even though that port is unlikely to be Gigabit speed???

In regard to cable pulling................point well made and I have done a cord not a cable to cable pull in the past and done it pushing a good metre of cable into a void before pulling the other end smile
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 27-Oct-13 23:20:55
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Routefinder:
It says it is CAT5e so surely wiring the RJ45's (eventually) will as you say provide 100Mbps but as queried above is that indeed a no brainer. Oh, talking of wiring the RJ45 plugs? I have found all sorts of sites with lovely coloured diagrams for full 8 cores fitting but none for the 2 pair/4cores. Therefore are the colour codes on the linked site "simply" 2 of the colour coded pairs and they fit into the RJ45 in the appropriate pins??? Just thought, is there any reason to assume that the WAN lan port on the Fibre modem is expecting a full 8cores RJ45 even though that port is unlikely to be Gigabit speed???


I not sure about the use of 2 pair Cat5e for a 100Mbps ethernet LAN modem to router setup - that's why I suggested you get further advice before considering it's use - I've only used 4 pair solid core for gigabit LAN in the past and wired to rj45 sockets (and long rj45 ethernet patch leads for testing.)
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 27-Oct-13 23:25:56
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Routefinder:
So just to clarify ~ Fibre Broadband if you are lucky depending on contract gets a max 80Mbps download speed to the modem and the 2 pair CAT5 is OK up to 100Mbps so is that rather a no brainer for any users of FTTC services as though the internal network can be Gigabit (as some of my connections are ~ my NAS and main PC are Gigabit and I use a Gigabit switch to connect them and the switch to the Router which is not Gigabit) the fact that at the Modem you currently, indeed for the quite long term foreseeable future, can only get the 80Mbps???
A 2 pair connection on pins 1/2 and 3/6 is sufficient for 100 Mbit/s Ethernet but not faster. Gigabit Ethernet needs all four pairs.


VDSL2 Profile 17a, which Openreach currently use for FTTC, has a raw data rate maximum of around 250 Mbit/s split between upstream and downstream. Without getting too mired down in detail, it's possible for short lines to manage a small amount over 100 Mbit/s in the downstream direction on the current setup, but Openreach do not currently market any FTTC services faster than 80/20 Mbit/s. The current Openreach modems only have 100 Mbit/s Ethernet ports.

It's possible that Openreach FTTC may move to Profile 30a in the future, with a raw data rate maximum of just over 400 Mbit/s split between upstream and downstream. This is by no means certain to happen, as the costs may outweigh the benefits. I believe all the current Openreach modems lack Profile 30a support, and most if not all of the currently deployed line cards in the cabinets lack Profile 30a support. It is only the best quality lines, usually the shortest ones, that will gain a significant speed boost from Profile 30a. Any Profile 30a equipment is likely to use Gigabit Ethernet.

I'm not sure whether Profile 17a and Profile 30a can run side by side on the same infrastructure. Openreach currently use the B8-11 band plan with the optional US0 band specified (BT SIN 498 paragraph A1.1.1 refers). The Profile 30a B8-16 band plan looks compatible, but I don't have a deep enough insight into the issues to know whether side by side Profile 17a and 30a operation is practical, especially when you throw in the complications of vectoring.


FTTP equipment already uses Gigabit Ethernet.


Ultimately, a 2 pair cable will prove limiting, but how soon you will meet that limit is uncertain. My FTTC connection runs at the full 80/20 Mbit/s, and I doubt I would notice the difference with a slightly faster connection other than on a speed test.


As you've found, 2 pair cable versus 4 pair cable might be an academic argument anyway, considering that 2 pair cable is likely to be akin to the proverbial rocking horse droppings.

At least some versions of the BT Data Extension Kit used to provide the Home Wiring Solution on FTTC installations were reputed to use 2 pair Category 5e cable. Maybe someone can confirm this, especially whether the kits currently available contain 2 pair cable.

Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Mon 28-Oct-13 00:59:05
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Hi David

Many thanks for the insight smile I have sent an enquiry to Clarity about suitability of the kit mentioned above, though what you say does point to it being fine for the foreseeable future.

FWIW as far as I can tell we are approx. 400M from the PCP cabinet and hence approx. the same distance from the FTTC cabinet once it is installed. Somewhere....was here at TBB or Kitz there is a table that from memory suggested we should see max 36Mbps download speed???
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 28-Oct-13 01:20:07
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
There is another thing to bare in mind: all-in-one modem/routers are starting to be supplied by FTTC providers. We have been considering an ethernet link between modem and router and if you were to use a modem/router then a 2 pair CAT5e cable would only carry up to 100Mbps to the office equipment…

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband.... - 400 metres ~42/16Mbps smile
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Mon 28-Oct-13 07:44:32
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that link, Routefinder, ties in with my experience.

I would suggest that the Joint was "invented" in several locations, almost simultaneously, probably in conjunction of the early railways here in Britain, as generally there was a requirement in their Parliamentary Acts for them to be fenced etc for the protection of livestock; and thus significantly different from general overseas practice.

That would lead on to the use on telegraph wiring, of which the railways were early proponents.

----------------------------------

Agreed that it is more suited to single strand, hard-drawn copper wire rather than stranded, especially multi-stranded; but it does have its uses in other situations. (No good on Litz wire!)

For example, about two weeks back, I wanted to join two pairs of multi-stranded cable, making sure that they were well-connected due to the current involved.

I first found a short section of large "chocolate block" (multi-way screw connector, generally white plastic today), slackening the screws to leave the holes through the brass unions unobstructed.

I threaded two of the wires right through two of the brass unions, extending about three inches on the far side.

Prepared the ends of all four wires; connecting the required pairs by short PO Joints.

I pulled those Joints into the holes through the brass segments, with the wire insulation just entering neatly at the respective portals.

Tightened up the screws, to give very robust splicing of the cables.

=================================

Taking the OP's original modus operandi, if he initially removed a length of the outer insulation by slitting longitudinally, (resulting in a miniature version of the circular, slitted foam tubes for insulating pipes); he could fit that outer insulation over the full jointing length, resulting in a neat way of extending such cables, with almost "invisible" joints.

Incidentally, those foam tubes can be useful to tidy up a collection of cables; and also fitted over the tubes of garden furniture to make them more comfortable.
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Sat 02-Nov-13 18:17:33
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Well as mentioned following on from 4M2's suggestion I emailed Clarity using their "contact page" on the 28th October...........................and have yet to receive a reply, to say the least that does not inspire confidence in regard to dealings with the company??? I thought I would phone them on Monday but cannot find a phone number anywhere on the site???

FWIW here is the content of the message I sent them:-

Hi

I hope you can advise me.

We currently have a Max DSL service but we are due to have FTTC in the area by the end of this year so I am doing some forward planning.

For my current setup I use CW1308 UTP phone cable to link between my master socket and my Router in my home office on the floor above. The CW1308 is pulled through the ceiling & floor but the holes are not directly aligned, there is a lateral displacement of approx. 8 inches. The holes in the ceiling and floor just fit the CW1308 but there is still some freedom of movement.

In preparation for the FTTC coming I was hoping to replace the CW1308 cable with CAT5e to link the BTOR Modem and the new Fibre Router but my problem is that moving the furniture and lifting floorboards is not currently an option! I have found some 4 pair CAT5e that is 5.25mm diameter but that may be pushing my luck when using the old cable to pull through that size of CAT5e.

I asked over at Think Broadband Forum and someone suggested that as the BTOR Modem is only 100Mbps output that 2 pair CAT5e would be sufficient and linked me to your website for this product BT Openreach Line Engineer's xDSL Extension Kit.

So based on the above criteria of access and pulling the 2 pair cable in the kit plus the need to meet the need for a proper connection between the BTOR Modem and the Router is the 2 pair CAT5e in the kit you sell suitable for the purpose???

Many thanks in anticipation of help and feedback with this question smile
Standard User dragon2611
(committed) Sun 03-Nov-13 16:06:00
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
This assumes that you have power near your master socket to power the modem. I keep on meaning to get hold of a Power over Ethernet splitter capable of providing the correct voltage to the modem to see if I can power the modem remotely. Unfortunately, this is stuck on my lengthy "to do" list behind many other projects.


I Use a passive splitter/injector set with the original PSU for the HG612 and it seems to work, although thats over a fairly short run (Probably less than 10M)

Not tried an ECI and those I think have a slightly higher current draw
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Sun 03-Nov-13 21:07:04
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Re: FTTC modem cable question?


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
Almost certainly NOT applicable in your case; but the best way to make holes through wood for cable pulling etc, is to use a red-hot poker.

This gives a very smooth hole, with some carbon lubrication. The lignum melts initially, then hardens to form a "smooth liner".

I think it was the Admiralty Weapons Research Department which found this method best for spooling out wire at high-speed, during WW2.

Graphite was used as a dry lubricant on pianola "motors". In the absence of graphite, I have used talcum powder for that purpose!

Graphite was supplied and used to lubricate the wooden slide valves on the early, Link Trainer Flight Simulators, which had an air-powered "bellows" motor to rotate them for different compass headings.


Ancient memories!
Standard User Routefinder
(experienced) Sun 03-Nov-13 23:30:04
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Lubing the cable for pulling through.


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Almost certainly NOT applicable in your case; but the best way to make holes through wood for cable pulling etc, is to use a red-hot poker.

This gives a very smooth hole, with some carbon lubrication. The lignum melts initially, then hardens to form a "smooth liner".

I think it was the Admiralty Weapons Research Department which found this method best for spooling out wire at high-speed, during WW2.

Graphite was used as a dry lubricant on pianola "motors". In the absence of graphite, I have used talcum powder for that purpose!

Graphite was supplied and used to lubricate the wooden slide valves on the early, Link Trainer Flight Simulators, which had an air-powered "bellows" motor to rotate them for different compass headings.


Ancient memories!


A good point you make about using a dry lubricant of some description..........a 3B pencil potentially would make a suitable graphite based one??? Or are pencils no longer almost 100% graphite, though possibly a tad messy to wipe down? As you say talc would work too smile
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Mon 04-Nov-13 07:25:56
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Re: Lubing the cable for pulling through.


[re: Routefinder] [link to this post]
 
A 3B pencil would probably suffice, bearing in mind that the corresponding 3H woulld have a lot of clay or similar in it - back to the HB's!

Just checked, they range to 10B!

But in your case, if you do open up the hole/s with a needle file or similar, that will tend to smooth the sides, so I would recommend the talcum powder, as it will probably clean up better.

================================

Avoid using "ordinary" pencils on PCB's, particularly if it is high-impedance circuitry, typical of thermionic valves (of ancient times).

The graphite is a conductor and can get in to the surface of the underlying strata.

No amount of cleaning will get it out, causing "invisible shorts"; and lots of head-scratching until I followed the whole process through in detail.

And the "cleaning" in itself could cause problems in addition to the "shorts", leading to scrapping.
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