still difficult to move from sky?

hey all,

at the beginning of last year I had probs with my Sky Fibre connection and attempted to move to PlusNet, however it proved impossible to move without losing my phone number and having to start with a new line....
my question is, have things changed in that i can move ISP & fone to a new provider (PlusNet) without all this fuss?

thx

What was the original source of the phone number? Porting of the number if originally a BT number should be possible.

I originally had a BT number but then signed up to Sky for the telephone package, I then added fibre but when I tried to change everything seemed to be against me doing this, PlusNet tried for 3 months but nothing so I agreed to stay with Sky until my contract runs out....which it does at the end of the year so I am looking to change...

if I change I want to know if the same is going to happen as it was a right pain chasing the issue..

thx

Hi there,

There was a problem with our supplier's systems at the time which has since been ironed out, and migrations from Sky and other LLU providers are working fine now Also if you number was ported from BT to Sky in the first place then we should be able to transfer that back (though if it was issued by Sky when you took out their service we wouldn't be able to).

I can't promise that there won't be problems but we won't run into the same issue with the orders being constantly cancelled.

I'm in the same boat as you, I have the same concerns I don't want to loose my number moving from Sky to Plusnet, thanks for bringing this up

I migrated away from Sky last year. I had both phone/BB with them. I gave Plusnet a call, and they took care of the rest. I didn't even have to call Sky to get a MAC.

I hope that helps.

In reply to a post by orbrey:

(though if it was issued by Sky when you took out their service we wouldn't be able to).

This is interesting. So if a line is provisioned by Sky, they will not release the number to Plusnet. Doesn't sound good.

Is this allowed by Ofcom?

I'd assume so but don't know for sure, far as I'm aware the numbers issued to Sky phone lines can't be ported to any other ISP or in fact any other line. Not sure why though, and while a quick google has confirmed that that is the case I haven't been able to find out why (or where the Ofcom regulations stand regarding it).

In reply to a post by orbrey:

and while a quick google has confirmed that that is the case I haven't been able to find out why (or where the Ofcom regulations stand regarding it).

Ofcom regulation require the losing CP must release the telephone number for porting:

In reference to ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/switching_provider:

So if you�re staying at the same address and your number is active, your current provider must allow it to be transferred to a new phone company.

Whilst the new provider doesn�t have to accept this request, it is in their interests to do so. They should also make all the transfer arrangements.

I would also add that as the gaining CP, it is your job to hold Sky to the Ofcom regulations for the sake of your customers.

That's understood, and where it's possible we do indeed make all the transfer arrangements.

Again, understood, and I'm chasing people around the business to see what we've done about this. Having said that, it's not our rights that are being affected here and likewise not sure how that affects things - I suspect we could raise it with Ofcom (and that's what I'm trying to find out if we've done) but would have thought that other providers and ex sky customers wanting to keep their number but not being able would have done the same.

As I said though I'll come back once I've been able to find out what's happened regarding this.

Right, basically it looks like the actual regulation (rather than what's stated on the page you link to) is sufficiently wooly that it can't really be brought to hold a provider to account unfortunately. I'm not an expert, but the relevant documentation is at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publica...

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Right, basically it looks like the actual regulation (rather than what's stated on the page you link to) is sufficiently wooly that it can't really be brought to hold a provider to account unfortunately. I'm not an expert, but the relevant documentation is at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publica...

Thanks for looking at this. This seems relevant:

18.1 The Communications Provider shall provide Number Portability as soon
as it is reasonably practicable on reasonable terms, including charges,
to any of its Subscribers who so requests.

I suppose the key wording is "as soon as it is reasonably practicable". It is in Talktalk's and Sky's interest to equate that phrase to mean "as late as Ofcom will let us". I have no idea of the status of portability of Talktalk provisioned numbers, but in the case of Sky at least, it seems they do not currently allow their provisioned numbers to be ported to WLR or Talktalk.

Since my number was provisioned by BT many years ago, I have no such issues moving my number between providers, be they WLR or LLU, so "I'm all right Jack". I do however feel sorry for those customers provisioned by Sky who are tethered to them because they cannot move their number.

I do think it's a case for Plusnet (and other CPs) to push Ofcom and/or Sky though, since a customer locked in to Sky is one less potential customer for you.

Didn't the OP originally have a "BT number" prior to taking the Sky "telephone package"?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Didn't the OP originally have a "BT number" prior to taking the Sky "telephone package"?

Yes.

In reply to a post by vf12vf:

I originally had a BT number but then signed up to Sky for the telephone package, .........................

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Didn't the OP originally have a "BT number" prior to taking the Sky "telephone package"?

I think we have moved on to a general discussion about the portability (or otherwise) of Sky provisioned numbers.

We did in a way, but there is still the q of what is to be done about the OP. They should be able to transfer it back to WLR.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

We did in a way, but there is still the q of what is to be done about the OP. They should be able to transfer it back to WLR.

Yep: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4281831-s...

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Since my number was provisioned by BT many years ago, I have no such issues moving my number between providers, be they WLR or LLU, so "I'm all right Jack".

Alright Jack!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Alright Jack!

My spell checker complained about "alright" so I bailed out on it.

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Right, basically it looks like the actual regulation (rather than what's stated on the page you link to) is sufficiently wooly that it can't really be brought to hold a provider to account unfortunately. I'm not an expert, but the relevant documentation is at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publica...

That is a long obsolete version of the General Conditions - especially General Condition 18 on number portability. There's been some extensive sets of changes since then, not least because of changes in the underlying EU law. The latest consolidated version of the General Conditions can be found on the Ofcom General Conditions web page.

There's little ambiguity in the latest version of General Condition 18.1:

In reference to stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/ga/general-conditions22...:

18.1 The Communications Provider shall provide Number Portability within the shortest possible time, including subsequent activation, on reasonable terms and conditions, including charges, to any of its Subscribers who so request.

As was repeatedly drummed into me in university law lectures, any lawyer is cautious over the word "reasonable", as it introduces subjectivity - but there is no doubt that there is a right to portability.

As orbrey says, the right is the subscriber's to enforce - but I'm sure Ofcom would be interested if a major provider like Sky is refusing requests to port out.

In reply to a post by David_W:

As orbrey says, the right is the subscriber's to enforce - but I'm sure Ofcom would be interested if a major provider like Sky is refusing requests to port out.

Yeah, unfortunately perhaps telephone number users are not aware that it's their right to keep their POTS number when moving between providers, and just accept it when they are told it can't be done.

thx for all the replies, yes my number was originally with BT and I took it to Sky when I moved to their phone service.
im pleased to hear that transferring the service is now sorted and when my contract is up at the end of the year I will move over....all being well!

To follow up on this, I have just received an email from Ofcom which states that all CPs are required to release the customer's telephone number for porting, regardless of who originally provisioned the number.

It was also stated that the gaining provider (e.g. Plusnet) must make the request to the losing provider (e.g. Sky) for the telephone number to be ported. It is disappointing if Plusnet are telling potential customers with Sky provisioned numbers that they must lose their number.

Further: "If a provider believes that they have evidence demonstrating that another is causing widespread difficulty with porting requests, they can raise a complaint through our industry complaints process."

I will be putting this to the test in a few months time I wonder if it complicates things for me as I will be moving from Sky ADSL and phone to Plusnet fibre and phone

In reply to a post by frod1:

I will be putting this to the test in a few months time I wonder if it complicates things for me as I will be moving from Sky ADSL and phone to Plusnet fibre and phone

Most people will have numbers originally provisioned by BT. You will only have a Sky provisioned number if Sky was the first provider on your line, or if they changed your number when you migrated in. Possibly also home movers who didn't inherit the previous owner's number when joining Sky. Whilst a smallish number now perhaps, that number of people will be increasing considerably in time.

Edited by Oliver341 (Thu 14-Nov-13 18:07:05)

My number is originally a BT number so hopefully that makes it easier

In reply to a post by frod1:

My number is originally a BT number so hopefully that makes it easier

Yep, no issue there.