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Standard User armistice
(newbie) Wed 25-Jun-14 12:26:59
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40/20 FTTC How?


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HI,

Sorry if this has been covered but i couldn't find it anywhere.
I've just noticed that plusnets upto 38mb/s service shows an upload rate of 19mb/s not the usual 9.5mbs with other providers.

Is that accurate, I thought the openreach product was either 80/20 or 40/20?
I'm on a market 1 exchange.

Thanks

Edited by armistice (Wed 25-Jun-14 12:28:31)

Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Jun-14 12:36:18
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: armistice] [link to this post]
 
They probably limit the speed to 40 their (ISP/Plusnet) side, independent of Openreach. So the product is 80/20 but has been limited by Plusnet to run as a 40/20 service.

Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (BQMv4) | IPv6 via HE (BQMv6) | 60/20Mb FTTC
Previous ISPs: <aaisp.net> | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited | Zen
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?

Edited by mixt (Wed 25-Jun-14 12:39:34)

Standard User armistice
(newbie) Wed 25-Jun-14 12:53:51
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
Why would they do that though, it would increase their costs provisioning the higher rate?


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 25-Jun-14 13:01:12
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: armistice] [link to this post]
 
We queried it and that was what we are assured they are doing, which makes it pretty cheap when TalkTalk charge £13.50 for 40/2 product

Once I see a speed test with high upload I'll be less sceptical

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Jun-14 13:08:38
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: armistice] [link to this post]
 
Not sure. I note the two packages (40/20 Fibre and 80/20 Fibre Extra) are both unlimited. On the previous packages (as I recall), only the higher spec package was unlimited, the other was limited to a set quota per month (which I believe was a 40/10 service).

I guess they have their reasons and have done appropriate market research to see that an unlimited fibre package, strategically placed to offer double the upload for the same download is a good move. In actual fact, it might be quite a good option for most people. I am on 60/20 but in reality, I do not actually see any real benefits from running at such a speed for download. 40/10 would do me, but having 40/20 would be even better if I was not fussed about download but wanted twice the upload.

Also, do remember that (I think) the 80/20 product has slightly higher priority on the Openreach network than the 40/10 one. Maybe provisioning 80/20 to all customers and just managing the speed their side is the easiest option for them.

I'm sure someone from Plusnet will be able to clarify.

Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (BQMv4) | IPv6 via HE (BQMv6) | 60/20Mb FTTC
Previous ISPs: <aaisp.net> | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited | Zen
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?

Edited by mixt (Wed 25-Jun-14 13:09:59)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 25-Jun-14 15:44:32
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: armistice] [link to this post]
 
too many people think broadband costs are only what wholesale charge for the port.

there is 2 obvious reasons.

1 - burst speed costs money, it increases peak time demand so as such increases backhaul costs. this is something a lot of people on this forum have never understood.
2 - even if all operational costs were equal, a retail service isnt about mirroring costs, its about maximising profits so the retailer can charge the customer more as they getting more for their money, its as simple as that, a retail price doesnt have to bear any relation to wholesale cost. the main driver of pricing is actually supply and demand. This is shown e.g. on line rental where wholesale costs are lowering but retail are increasing.

To me it makes more sense plusnet would provisioion 40/10, and its a shame they dont because a 40/10 service e.g. is a way to get unlimited and force a misbehaving line to fast path, so lets say a line syncs at 58/12 but interleaved, the customer could change the speed to a capped 40/10 and get fast path back for better performance. That wont work if the underlying provision is still at 80/20.

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 25-Jun-14 15:45:27)

Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Jun-14 15:54:11
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I thought that a 40/10 service still syncs up to a maximum of 80/20, but is strictly rate limited to 40/10 by Openreach equipment. Or is that not the case? If that's not the case, then there are no benefits of going for the 40/10 service to improve noise margin, as you suggest.

Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (BQMv4) | IPv6 via HE (BQMv6) | 60/20Mb FTTC
Previous ISPs: <aaisp.net> | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited | Zen
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?

Edited by mixt (Wed 25-Jun-14 15:54:56)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 25-Jun-14 16:02:08
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
The GEA-FTTC product does have a max sync of 40/10 so opting for that can give better margin/stability for some rather than pushing the line to the max and just getting say 44/11 connection speeds

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Jun-14 16:04:04
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for clarifying Andrew.

Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (BQMv4) | IPv6 via HE (BQMv6) | 60/20Mb FTTC
Previous ISPs: <aaisp.net> | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited | Zen
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Jun-14 18:34:24
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Re: 40/20 FTTC How?


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
I find it rather strange too. As for unlimited fibre 80/20 was £22.49 but 40/20 was £17.49 so I think Plusnet are no longer using BT 40/10. Instead they using 80/20 and limit the cap for 40Mbps at £17.49.

I can see on BT site, it only offfer two products 40/10 or 80/20. So, I am not sure how plusnet can do this 40/20 for fiver cheaper?

Edited by adslmax (Wed 25-Jun-14 18:58:34)

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