User comments on ISPs
  >> PlusNet plc


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


  Print Thread
Standard User jim66
(newbie) Fri 07-Nov-14 08:50:09
Print Post

Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[link to this post]
 
We are on talktalk (full LLU) is a mac code required to join PN? Many thanks
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 07-Nov-14 11:17:47
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: jim66] [link to this post]
 
No because full LLU cannot generate a MAC

A simultaneous provide (i.e. broadband and phone at the same time) or deliver phone line and broadband a few days or week later is the way this sort of move is usually done.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 07-Nov-14 12:42:58
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Might not TalkTalk cease the broadband if the phone is taken away not on a Sim Provide, seeing as it's a bundle?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.4/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - IPv4BQM IPv6BQM

"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 07-Nov-14 12:43:38)


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 07-Nov-14 18:43:09
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The broadband WILL stop working hence why sim provide is best but not always done by providers

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 07-Nov-14 20:14:27
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Might not TalkTalk cease the broadband if the phone is taken away not on a Sim Provide, seeing as it's a bundle?

As MrSaffron says, the TalkTalk broadband will cease if the pair is used to provide phone service from another provider. The pair will be physically disconnected from the TalkTalk MSAN when it is connected to the new provider's equipment..

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 07-Nov-14 20:24:28
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Uh uh David. It doesn't work like that. In this case it is simply that TalkTalk do/may not support SMPF. Removal of the pair is a commercial not a technical requirement.

With ADSLx the phone and broadband are combined and split on the MSAN/DSLAM to access the copper to the customer. The phone connection then goes either to the LLU supplier's service or (I believe) to BT Wholesale's.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.4/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - IPv4BQM IPv6BQM

"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 07-Nov-14 20:47:34
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Full LLU - i.e. MPF - is a pair of wires rented from Openreach jumpered at the MDF directly to the LLU provider's equipment. My understanding - and I am prepared to be corrected on this - is that the only way to move that pair to another provider involves removing those jumpers, meaning the LLU provider's MSAN can no longer provide voice or DSL service.

I don't believe any of the LLU providers offer an SMPF type service where the LLU provider's equipment is responsible for the voice service - though I might have missed something. Certainly I don't believe there is a regulatory requirement on any of the LLU providers to offer an SMPF type service. SMPF, as I understand it, is an MPF jumpered to BT equipment for WLR voice, with the pair being presented through a filter to an LLU provider for data service.


If the move is from full LLU to SMPF with the original LLU provider responsible for data service - i.e. a migration of the voice service alone - that involves rejumpering the MPF to BT equipment and jumpering the filtered pair from the BT equipment to the LLU provider's MSAN for data service. This is, to my understanding, why the data service must always be reprovided in a move away from full LLU.


If I'm talking rubbish, I welcome correction.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 07-Nov-14 22:51:01
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Keeping it simple, if voice moves off of talktalk full llu broadband will stop until someone does some provide activity. In an a hour or so for sim provide or longer if done as two orders

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 07-Nov-14 23:04:41
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
smile
You are confusing two scenarios.

Phone and broadband signals are merged on the DSLAM/MSAN and the combined signal gets to the line to the consumer. In the case of full LLU, MPF, the phone line rental is not paid as such to Openreach. It is not WLR3 - a "BT line".

1) Removal of the line rental from the LLU supplier but not the broadband turns it into SMPF, LLU broadband plus WLR3 line rental with some CP. The pair stay connected to the DSLAM/MSAN. That is what MrSaffron said is a frequent staging post to complete migration.

The question then arises in the case of a Sky or TT bundle as to whether they are prepared to accept a change to SMPF on a line physically connected to their MSAN and occupying a port they could sell MPF on. It's a commercial decision. They may cease the(ir) broadband.

2) The broadband is migrated away instead. That means the pair moves to the new supplier's DSLAM/MSAN, BTW or other. The original LLU supplier has the option to change the line rental to WLR3, which I think Sky now do, or end the contract and cease the line. I don't know what TalkTalk do. Again, it's a commercial decision. Ceasing the line of course terminates the broadband, wherever that is.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.4/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - IPv4BQM IPv6BQM

"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 08-Nov-14 07:19:14
Print Post

Re: Talktalk to PluNet - mac code?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm clear what I'm trying to say - it's just that we're splitting hairs somewhat counterproductively, Bob. I'm talking about what is involved in an order, whereas you're focusing on the possible outcomes of an order for the end user.


The point I was trying to make, which I understand Andrew is also making, is that the only way from MPF (full LLU) to any scenario other than ceasing one or both of the existing services involves some sort of provide order. If the end user wants to keep voice and broadband service with no gap in service, this must either be a provision order for MPF with a new LLU provider, or a simultaneous provision order of some sort.


If someone on MPF wishes to take voice service from another provider and keep broadband from the current LLU provider, it is up to the LLU provider whether they are happy to go along with this or whether they require the customer to leave completely. As you say, Bob, this is a commercial decision of the LLU provider whether to allow this.

If the LLU provider is content to keep providing broadband, this needs a simultaneous provide of SMPF and WLR3, which will involve the jumpers from the MPF directly to the LLU MSAN being removed.

If the existing LLU provider refuses to keep providing broadband, another sort of order will need to be made, which could be MPF with another LLU provider, or it could be WLR3. A WLR3 order could be accompanied by a simultaneous or subsequent order for a broadband product (such as a BT Wholesale broadband product, SMPF or FTTC). A subsequent order involves a break in broadband service.


If someone on MPF wishes to take broadband service from another provider, it is a commercial decision of the current LLU provider whether to continue providing voice service. If they are content to keep providing voice service, this typically requires provision of WLR3 for the voice service plus some service to deliver the new broadband service (which could be SMPF, a BT Wholesale ADSL or ADSL2+ product, or FTTC).

There are a few exceptions where the voice service from the current LLU provider could continue on MPF.

If the new broadband provider offers broadband service using a wholesale product with the LLU provider, it would be possible for voice service to continue on MPF rather than a WLR3 and SMPF combination being used.

If the new broadband service uses FTTP, MPF voice can continue as the voice and broadband are entirely separate.

If the new broadband service uses FTTC, there is no technical bar to the existing jumpers on the MDF to the LLU provider's MSAN remaining to provide voice service, though my understanding is that Openreach will only allow FTTC to be ordered on an MPF line by the CP who rents the MPF as the MPF product involves renting the entire allowable spectrum, including that used for FTTC, to the MPF CP.


In any scenario where MPF voice could continue, the current LLU provider might choose to switch to providing voice service via WLR3 to prevent awkward situations in the future where the end user does not have the full range of broadband options they were expecting.


Of course, this level of detail is unlikely to matter to the end user. All the end user is likely to care about is whether the losing full LLU provider will continue to provide a service they don't want to move, or whether they require the end user to leave completely.

  Print Thread

Jump to