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Standard User mbames
(regular) Tue 31-May-16 10:08:56
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Plusnet say routers wear out....


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My fathers sync speed has dropped from 2.2Mbps to 0.6 (again). BT are sending an engineer out to investigate, but I was most amused by the Customer Service chap who said "Routers wear out after 2 years and need to be replaced"

Surely if that were the case that most of the UK would be operating on a degraded connection...

Sky Fibre (40/10), HG612, DrayTek 2925, DrayTek AP-700
(Gone but not forgotten: 2820n x 2, 2800vg, 2800)

Speedtests:
ThinkBB - Mini | ThinkBB - Full | Speedtest.net
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 31-May-16 11:28:28
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: mbames] [link to this post]
 
It's worth posting that on the Plusnet Community forums if you haven't already. The guy needs "additional training". Like a rocket somewhere wink.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User hypertony
(experienced) Tue 31-May-16 11:36:57
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: mbames] [link to this post]
 
LOL. Maybe the mouse is worn out after running the wheel for years... ;P

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Standard User mbames
(regular) Tue 31-May-16 12:32:12
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I was having a conversation on facebook with AW from plusnet, so I've let him know. Generally PN support seems to be quite reasonable - they have sent out numerous BT engineers to fix line faults (sadly they don't fix them all, or the line is so dodgy it keeps making new faults on a weekly/monthly basis!)

Thankfully I've got a backup Vigor 120 at my Dads' so if we really needed to test this out, we could drop the 120 into place.

Sky Fibre (40/10), Draytek 130, DrayTek 2925, DrayTek AP-700
(Gone but not forgotten: 2820n x 2, 2800vg, 2800, HG612)

Speedtests:
ThinkBB - Mini | ThinkBB - Full | Speedtest.net
Standard User Zad
(learned) Tue 31-May-16 14:03:47
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: mbames] [link to this post]
 
The thing is - they sort of do. Let me explain.

Not so much routers but modems anyway. Most modems (and by extension modem/routers) are built down to a price in the usual Chinese sweatshops. This means using the absolutely cheapest components they can get, and not worrying too much about good enclosure design.

Electrolytic capacitors, as used in the vast majority of consumer electronics, have a small amount of liquid electrolyte inside them. Normally they have a good lifespan but, if you heat them up, the liquid electrolyte gradually turns to vapour form and escapes, reducing the ability of the capacitor to do its job. Ever had a flat panel TV fail? Backlight wont come on, or the power LED just blinks at you? Its the electrolytic caps that have gradually failed.

Combine this with having your modem on 24 hours a day, in an enclosure that is probably not well ventilated so toasty warm inside, and electrolytic capacitor ageing is accelerated.

Having said all that though, 2 years is really pushing it. Lifespan should be around the 5 year mark, unless you have a particularly rogue component. Well designed equipment with good ventilation and 5p more spent on capacitors from a source other than MostGoodBangExcellentCapCompany can easily extend that lifespan.

I recently had my FTTC speed slide down a cliff - not in a big jump but in steps over a few weeks. PlusNet called BT out, BT man did the usual tests, proclaimed everything fine and left. He also reset the line. Tadaa, full speed back. My feeling is that some firmware in the cab/dslam/whatever has something like a memory leak bug and needs a reset now and then.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 31-May-16 16:02:35
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: mbames] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mbames:
My fathers sync speed has dropped from 2.2Mbps to 0.6 (again). BT are sending an engineer out to investigate, but I was most amused by the Customer Service chap who said "Routers wear out after 2 years and need to be replaced"

Surely if that were the case that most of the UK would be operating on a degraded connection...


I agree and disagree with the statement made here. Most routers will last more than 2 years. That said, with most customers being on 12 or 18 month contracts, a large amount of customers will be negotiating and changing their package at the end of their contract, usually this comes with a new hub. I have definitely had a new hub at least every 2 years since I took out broadband. I doubt many customers have 4 year old routers for example.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Tue 31-May-16 16:54:47
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: Zad] [link to this post]
 
I'd concur. Modem/routers (especially recent ones) seem to have a limited life as I've certainly seen them failing around the 5 year mark. Older Netgear models seem to be more robust than the newer ones. Strangely I've seen them partially. I have one where the ADSL2+ link will stay up - more or less - but none of the status/diagnostic interfaces work.

So I think the newer stuff is generally built down to a price and its wise to have a spare on hand (always useful in diagnosing problems too). It's a shame as I'm sure better quality components wouldn't increase the cost that much.

I've also noticed this issue with small switch-mode power supplies. They are often awful.
Standard User mbames
(regular) Tue 31-May-16 17:21:57
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: Zad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zad:
Combine this with having your modem on 24 hours a day, in an enclosure that is probably not well ventilated so toasty warm inside, and electrolytic capacitor ageing is accelerated.

Having said all that though, 2 years is really pushing it. Lifespan should be around the 5 year mark, unless you have a particularly rogue component. Well designed equipment with good ventilation and 5p more spent on capacitors from a source other than MostGoodBangExcellentCapCompany can easily extend that lifespan.


Full Draytek family so I'd hope their stuff might last a bit longer than some cheap imported tat, but who knows for sure?! Equipment at my parents is in a large cool, well ventilated room, so certainly shouldn't be getting too warm, but happy to take comments on board smile

Sky Fibre (40/10), Draytek 130, DrayTek 2925, DrayTek AP-700
(Gone but not forgotten: 2820n x 2, 2800vg, 2800, HG612)

Speedtests:
ThinkBB - Mini | ThinkBB - Full | Speedtest.net
Standard User ambrougham
(newbie) Wed 01-Jun-16 00:01:07
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: mbames] [link to this post]
 
I've been on the receiving end of the old "routers wear out and need replacing every year or so" comment several times over the years when reporting problems various. It's nothing new !

However, I have a Draytek 2600 sitting in the corner that's been running 24/7 from Nov 2002 to date. Just as cranky as it's always been it has to be said ... but definitely not significantly more so than it was when it first came out of the box all shiny, new and state-of-the-art :lol:

It really ought to have given up by now TBH as they do run pretty hot and electrolytics in particular don't much like that. But then there's an early Pentium (150 non-MMX I think) PC sat underneath it that's been running flat out 24/7 for much longer and apart from the occasional hoovering out, the only maintenance it's seen in it's entire life has been a new fan in the PSU.

Edited by ambrougham (Wed 01-Jun-16 00:21:55)

Standard User ppppenguin99
(member) Wed 01-Jun-16 07:19:32
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Re: Plusnet say routers wear out....


[re: ambrougham] [link to this post]
 
Years ago, in the days when PN didn't supply a "free" modem router you had to buy your own. They cost a fair bit back then so when mine started to go intermittent I opened it up and changed the electrolytics even though they weren't bulging. It then worked fine.

"Wall wart" power supplies can also have a short life. In the days of linear supplies I've sawed them open and replaced the reservoir electrolytic.Modern switchmode units aren't readily fixable.

As others have said it's the usual cheapo electrolytics problem. Though even good quality electrolytics used within their ratings and kept reasonably cool still have a relatively limited life compared to other parts. A few months ago I changed the power supply electrolytics in a very nice (and very expensive) 20" flat screen monitor which had gone a bit intermittent. It was 10 years old but well worth the effort.
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