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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 26-Dec-18 10:57:18
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: ppppenguin99] [link to this post]
 
I was and I did, after I closed my offices.

However, when it comes to being less than 100% accurate over your Vat as per your example, that would be a calculated risk. Falsified Vat returns and Self-Assessment tax returns are not a good idea.

Then of course you would also have to handle line rental and mobile phone costs correctly.

Iím years out of date now on the detailed regulations but they used to be quite tight. What I do know is one iof my customers got 18 months for (admittedly much greater) Vat fraud. Fortunately his son was able to continue running the business while he was inside.

If on the other hand you could indeed claim all of it as a business expense, in this day and age that would probably mean you have a second line as well for the OPís domestic use and entertainment package. Thus defeating his object smile.

Anyway, this thread is not basically about handling oneís Vat legitimately. The OP and others are simply objecting to Plusnet and other ISPsí commercial practices and terms. My post that you replied to pointed out that those practices and terms make perfect business sense. You havenít addressed it at all wink.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 26-Dec-18 11:03:07
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: ppppenguin99] [link to this post]
 
Thinking a bit further into it, I wonder if deep in the Vat Regulations appertaining to provision of communications services the providers are prevented from supplying Vat invoices on non-business accounts. Specifically to help prevent what HMRC could legitimately regard as this form of abuse.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests 35-45Mpbs down, 9-15 up.
==================================================
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Standard User sheephouse
(member) Wed 26-Dec-18 12:19:21
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well I changed from a Plusnet residential account to a Plusnet Business account partly because I work from home which is against the T&Cs for a residential account, but mainly because the Business account was 30% cheaper! If the business account was more expensive then there could be some justification, but much of the time there is no difference in price, and at times the business accounts are significantly cheaper than the best deal an existing residential customer can get.


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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 28-Dec-18 16:36:28
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: 50pence] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 50pence:
Thanks for the replies all!

My perspective is that any VAT registered supplier should provide a VAT invoice upon request. Furthermore it costs no more to generate a PDF featuring VAT than it does one that doesn't feature VAT.

I also don't believe that PlusNet are correct in putting 'business use only' in their T&Cs, it's a restrictive trading practice, it's not their business what the customer uses the connection for (unless it's illegal) and a large proportion all BB customers will use their connection for business use and either their employer or they themselves maybe VAT registered.

However if the business products were competitively priced and well featured it would not be a problem. Though a business product offers no advantages over a residential product, it will cost me more extra than I can reclaim in VAT and does not feature the entertainment packages.

They either need to offer VAT invoices on residential products or entertainment packages on competitively priced business products.

There's also a loyalty issue here, I've been loyal for nearly 15 years, when I signed up they just did broadband and provided VAT invoices as required.


The business product is different in that it allows you to use it for commercial purposes, the difference is in the legal terms, it doesnt matter if its the same on a technical level.

Like how you often see a consumer version of software and commercial version, may have same feature sets, but the former is often way cheaper maybe even free, with the caveat its for personal use only.

I am a sole trader, and I also use my connection for consumer use, so I am in this category I suppose, I often buy residential broadband products but sometimes have used business one's.

Imagine if my isp (sky) flipped out over this, I would just say well since you dont have a business product I will just leave then, I expect they would say they suddenly dont mind, the t&c's is really just to cover their back so when there is an outage their backs are covered when the inevitable "but I lost £5000 today in revenue" arrives.

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Standard User 50pence
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Dec-18 14:33:32
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
In reply to a post by ian72:
See the Ts&Cs I posted - yes a sole trader is a business and PlusNet Ts&Cs specifically exclude this usage from their consumer products.


Further, if I don't want to be tied to PN, I can sign up to their broadband as a business user registered for VAT, then when I want out, demand VAT invoices. I might be breaching their T&Cs but if they don't supply me a VAT invoice, they are breaking the law. I think the latter is more serious.


Though if you sign up as a business user they WILL give you VAT invoices, though you won't be able to access any entertainment packages.

Paperless office - Never! | Wireless home - April 2004.

ISP: plusnet
Standard User 50pence
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Dec-18 14:36:06
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
People have been moaning about VAT invoices not being given for residential accounts for years.

Has it not occurred to you that if your arguments had any substance someone would have forced Plusnet, BT or AAISP to change that policy by now?


Though PN have provided VAT invoices until recently. They threatened to withdraw them from residential customers some years ago though backed down then, which is for me another issue, I feel that by withdrawing them now they have reneged on a previous promise.

Paperless office - Never! | Wireless home - April 2004.

ISP: plusnet
Standard User 50pence
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Dec-18 14:37:45
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
That isnít the OPís problem. He wants Vat invoices because he is Vat registered, and is prepared to pay the business tariff. But he also wants the entertainment add on, which he canít have on the business tariff.

On the residential tariff he can have the entertainment package, but not Vat invoices.


Exactly.

Paperless office - Never! | Wireless home - April 2004.

ISP: plusnet
Standard User 50pence
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Dec-18 14:39:13
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sheephouse:
Well I changed from a Plusnet residential account to a Plusnet Business account partly because I work from home which is against the T&Cs for a residential account, but mainly because the Business account was 30% cheaper! If the business account was more expensive then there could be some justification, but much of the time there is no difference in price, and at times the business accounts are significantly cheaper than the best deal an existing residential customer can get.


For me the like-for-like business package is about £10 a month more.

Paperless office - Never! | Wireless home - April 2004.

ISP: plusnet
Standard User 50pence
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Dec-18 14:41:44
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Thinking a bit further into it, I wonder if deep in the Vat Regulations appertaining to provision of communications services the providers are prevented from supplying Vat invoices on non-business accounts. Specifically to help prevent what HMRC could legitimately regard as this form of abuse.


I don't think so as there are many areas where you can claim VAT on the proportion of the product ort service that is used for business use, i.e. petrol/diesel, utilities, mobile phone services etc.

Paperless office - Never! | Wireless home - April 2004.

ISP: plusnet
Standard User 50pence
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Dec-18 14:45:22
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Re: VAT Invoices versus Entertainment Packages


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Rastus:
In reply to a post by 50pence:
Thanks for the various replies.

The key point is that PlusNet's residential T&C's allow some home working though they don't provide VAT invoices.

To get a VAT invoice you need a business product though with that you cannot get the entertainment packages.

So to get both VAT invoices and entertainment packages you need to separate connections even though you will only use one at a time - totally ridiculous!


Not ridiculous IMHO - sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it!

You want an entertainment package - get a residential service and pay the VAT like most of us who aren't able to claim VAT back. Even if we use only 1MB per month we still have to pay the VAT, so why shouldn't you?

Get over it!


That's ridiculous! The point is that anyone can claim the proportion of the service they use for business as a business expense, and if you're VAT registered you can reclaim the VAT quite legitimately - as when you invoice for the product or service you provide you are conversely having to charge VAT.

Paperless office - Never! | Wireless home - April 2004.

ISP: plusnet
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