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Standard User VillageIT
(newbie) Sun 08-Nov-15 07:33:51
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Re: Ofcom's Market A & Market B classification Rationale


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
Your price differentials come from Plusnet. Name another ISP that is not a different arm of Plusnet that has similar market based pricing.


Sky, Zen and a few other smaller providers to name a few

Most ISPs have the same pricing regardless of market classification..

Sorry but are you connected to a Market A exchange and when was the last time you looked round to get alternative price.
OFCOMs obsession with contrived competition via LLU is what has created this issue, and other issues, such as the prevention of exchange based VDSL2, blocking hundreds of thousands of people on EO lines from receiving fibre, and notching power masks for every fttc customer.

We don't need more messing around with the rules.

That's easy to say if you are on a Market B with lots of competition. Where we live we get less than 1Mbps and we are paying more than everyone else on an unbundled exchange getting the full 8 Mbps or higher. This is reverse competition and discriminatory.
Standard User Ragnarok
(member) Sun 08-Nov-15 09:49:51
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Re: Ofcom's Market A & Market B classification Rationale


[re: VillageIT] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by VillageIT:
That's easy to say if you are on a Market B with lots of competition. Where we live we get less than 1Mbps and we are paying more than everyone else on an unbundled exchange getting the full 8 Mbps or higher. This is reverse competition and discriminatory.


Thats the problem with legislation, and regulation, Unintended consequences. in trying to make things fair they actually make them unfair.
Standard User gah789
(regular) Sun 08-Nov-15 19:42:18
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Re: Ofcom's Market A & Market B classification Rationale


[re: Ragnarok] [link to this post]
 
All kinds of things are getting mixed up here, so it is worth trying to get the facts straight.

A. In line with standard regulatory practice wholesale market reviews - the source of the Market A and Market B distinction - occur at intervals of roughly 4-5 years. There will not be another one until late in this decade. You can lobby all you want but that is not going to change.

B. LLU presence at an exchange depends on (i) the size of the exchange, and (ii) links to nearby exchanges. These determine the expected revenues and costs of installing LLU equipment. The threshold for LLU presence has steadily fallen over time so that almost exchanges with > 1000 lines have LLU equipment but very few with < 500 lines. Unless the cost of DSLAMs and leased falls very markedly that is unlikely to change much.

C. Low sync speeds - < 1 Mbps - are a consequence of distance and line quality, not whether there is LLU equipment at the exchange. Apart from upgrading from ADSL Max to ADSL 2+ the introduction of LLU equipment will not change anything. Given the distance curves, lines that get < 4 Mbps for ADSL Max are unlikely to see much improvement from an upgrade to ADSL 2+. In any case BT Wholesale have upgraded almost all exchanges to WBC/ADSL 2+ that might be attractive to LLU competitors. Where they haven't done this it is usually because of constraints on backhaul, which will keep out LLU competitors as well.

D. The unpalatable fact for those connected to small exchanges is that economies of scale mean that large operators have little or no interest in installing LLU equipment in 2000-3000 small exchanges serving < 500 lines each because the market size is too small. If you want to change that, small exchanges have to be converted into satellites of larger exchanges. That is happening with VDSL but it won't help much if the distance from the property served to the old/new exchange is too long or the lines are too poor.

E. You may feel that it is discriminatory to charge higher prices at Market A exchanges. Unfortunately the reality is that - again due to economies of scale in equipment, backhaul, etc - it is more costly to serve a customer at a small exchange than at a large exchange. There are substantial cross-subsidies built into the uniform charge per line paid to Openreach and in what BT Wholesale is allowed to charge. However, LLU operators are under no compulsion to install equipment at exchanges which they do not think will cover the costs incurred. Again, no lobbying is going change the basic economics.

Edited by gah789 (Sun 08-Nov-15 19:49:02)


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Standard User MacLe0d
(newbie) Tue 22-Dec-15 19:08:35
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Re: Ofcom's Market A & Market B classification Rationale


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
Yep it sucks to be on a Market A non-LLU 20CN exchange. Paying more for an inferior service, Basically if your exchange is non-LLU in effect whilst some operators might offer you a connection several in recent years have sold are in the process of selling their off-grid customers.


As for fibre if you are getting it you'll be left to last as obviously it's far more important to give those who already have a fast connection an even faster connection.
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