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Standard User skyisthelimit
(newbie) Sun 03-Jul-11 14:16:53
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Sky has taken over my line?


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As you can imagine, sat here in frustration. It's taken Sky almost two weeks to figure out my broadband isn't working due to a faulty router. Sounds quite amateurish to take that long, so let's change.

Sky said I can move to any provider I wish without a MAC. I try O2 and Orange. Both tell me similar things that Sky have control of my line, they won't release it, and I'll have to get a new BT line installed!

Speak to Sky and they say they sent me a letter last year informing me I was being moved to their network. Never received such a letter.

As far as I know I moved over to Sky in 2006 and, while I was paying them line rental, the line was still in someway BT. And I certainly didn't expect to be stuck with Sky.

So how do I escape Sky?

Edited by skyisthelimit (Sun 03-Jul-11 14:18:53)

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jul-11 15:40:36
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: skyisthelimit] [link to this post]
 
You need to speak with a phone provider that can take back the line.

Most people normally ask BT to do this as a "return to donor" and BT may charge for this - there are others providers that can do this too, who may be cheaper and not have such a long contract as BT.

In regard to the letter Sky sent, your phone provider would have generally also sent you one saying that someone was taking over the line, if you don't want this to happen please let us know otherwise on X date, your service with us will stop etc.

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uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
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Standard User Spacemanc
(newbie) Sun 03-Jul-11 18:35:33
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I've just left Sky LLU so I know a bit about this wink Unless you stay with Sky you will need a "new line" - there is no way out of this. You don't get an actual new line, but an engineer does have to reconnect your line to the BT network at the exchange and also come out and check the line at your property, so you still get hit with the "new line charge". This charge varies depending on your new provider. Here are the costs:


Talk Talk - £80

O2 - £85

Orange - £60

Primus - £69

BT - £130 (but they usually have a deal on where they waive or reduce the fee for joining their (expensive) service.

Or if you don't mind going cable for everything, Virgin charge £25 for joining their network.


The problem isn't just the cost - its also the inconvenience. You will probably lose your phone for at least a week or so (could be longer because the new line engineers frequently reschedule the reconnection appointments). Once you are back with a BT compatible line (and not before) you can order your Broadband. This is then connected 7- 14 days later. Regarding your phone number - if you want to transfer it, it is sometimes possible - but often it is "lost" and cannot be retrieved, so you get a new number weather you like it or not.

I'm moving from Sky to Orange and I'm part way though the process. Everything has gone smoothly so far. The engineer arrived on time for his appointment to reconnect the line so I was only without phone for 5 days. Then the BB was then ordered, and it will be connected 7 days later (this Wednesday).

Orange phone and broadband has some great offers at the moment. It is already pretty much the cheapest service, but at the moment Quidco.com is offering £150 cashback for new Orange phone and BB connections, which more than makes up for the £60 "new line" cost.

The whole process is far more painful than it should be, but there you go. Never go full LLU! It also does not surprise me one bit that Sky sneaked you over to their network. One of the reasons I left is due to their lying sales staff.


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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jul-11 18:40:33
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: Spacemanc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spacemanc:
You don't get an actual new line, but an engineer does have to reconnect your line to the BT network at the exchange and also come out and check the line at your property, so you still get hit with the "new line charge"


Yes.. hence the "return to donor" part. However, BT do not always charge this and very much luck on who you speak to.

The problem isn't just the cost - its also the inconvenience. You will probably lose your phone for at least a week or so (could be longer because the new line engineers frequently reschedule the reconnection appointments).


If done properly, this should not happen. The new provider does the take over part on the date given, if this is delayed the phone service stays with the old provider.

Once you are back with a BT compatible line (and not before) you can order your Broadband. This is then connected 7- 14 days later.


This is not strictly true either. If your provider supports SIM provides, you can get the broadband on at the same time as the line is moved away - you do not need to wait.

Regarding your phone number - if you want to transfer it, it is sometimes possible - but often it is "lost" and cannot be retrieved, so you get a new number weather you like it or not.


I would say it is opposite. It is generally always possible unless it is a cable line and sometimes can be lost, but for specific reasons.

Matt

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Standard User Spacemanc
(newbie) Sun 03-Jul-11 21:50:49
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Uno any idea of any major ISP which can provide a SIM provide from a Sky LLU phone line? I certainly couldn't find any. You simply cant move straight over, because all the major companies I spoke to couldn't even see the Sky line on their systems and everyone says that Sky wont hand over their lines. This means you have to wait for the Sky service to stop (bye bye phone number), and then order the phone line and wait for the Openworld engineer to come and check your "new line" and reconnect you.

Its only once you have a have a line with a non LLU number, that a BB provider can order BB for your line (because otherwise according to openworld, no line actually exists to order BB on) - this then takes all providers 7-10 days to activate, because that is the timescale given by openworld.

I spent many hours on the phone trying to find ways of not losing internet for 2 weeks minimum - but from what I was told there was no way around it.
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jul-11 21:59:24
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: Spacemanc] [link to this post]
 
No, that is wrong. You can see the lines but they won't just work with a normal number check because they don't belong to BT (in one way or another).

Thankfully one of my family have a Sky line (MPF), if I put their address details in lists the line in question... (you search by postcode, then house number).

BT then report that the address in question has 1 spair pair, and 1 active MPF line which we can take over (or we can use a spare pair and put an addition line in).

Text
1
Convert MPF     XXXXXXXXX               MPF             AR: Yes         PC: No


I can then take over that line by selecting it and proceeding with the order. This would move the line back to a BT Wholesale WLR3 service. Further along that process, I can opt for a SIM provide in which I then get given the code to place a linked broadband order with.

You then book the broadband just as with any other SIM provide order and it will complete the day the PSTN is switched over.

Whilst I am not going to book this line order, we have done them for customers who wanted to move to our MPF service (book them to WLR then back over to MPF), which is the exact same process to start with.

Matt

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uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host

Edited by uno (Sun 03-Jul-11 21:59:35)

Standard User rich1068
(member) Sun 03-Jul-11 22:02:15
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: Spacemanc] [link to this post]
 
Forgive me but I'm confused by all this. I've read in this thread and on another that if Sky take over your line (ie you pay line rental to them?) that it's a real ballache further down the line should you wish to change your ISP or line rental provider? Why is paying line rental or getting Sky to provide broadband any different to using anyone else? Surely after your 12 months you can do as you please?

I've recently signed up to a Sky package (line rental, a phone and broadband deal, TV etc) and I'm a little concerned by what I'm reading. I've changed from Be supplying my broadband and Talk Talk handling my line rental. Prior to that it was BT. At no point has this ever been a problem. Why is Sky different?

:edit:

I should add that at no point has my phone number changed.

Rich.

Edited by rich1068 (Sun 03-Jul-11 22:03:44)

Standard User Spacemanc
(learned) Sun 03-Jul-11 22:46:34
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: rich1068] [link to this post]
 
Uno you're right about what you see. The providers I contacted could see the same MPF details (tbh I dont even know what it is!) But Sky wont hand over lines, so you need to stop sky and then get a "new line" installed which involves the engineer visit. Sky will tell you this. New providers will tell you this. Ofcom rules seem to say that they should do handovers, but they dont. Do a few web searches - I'm pretty sure I'm not an isolated case, and because I had read it would happen, I spent many hours trying to avoid the situation without success.

Maybe I spoke to the wrong people, but in the end I have had to pay the new line charge. Lost my phone for a week (this depends on how long it takes Openworld to connect the new line). And lost my BB for 2 weeks (again this depends on how long it takes Openworld)

In many ways I'm lucky that an engineer appointment was available so soon, and that he actually turned up. Im also lucky that my BB will be activated within 7 days of the order - which afaik is the minimum they can do it in.

Rich - Sky LLU is very easy to join. Much harder to leave! frown
Standard User skyisthelimit
(newbie) Mon 04-Jul-11 10:54:46
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: skyisthelimit] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all your help here. It is annoying and does seem sneaky that Sky has transferred me onto their network.

I have a rough understanding of all the technical stuff behind the scenes. I was paying Sky for line rental, but in some way it was still a BT line, this was before Sky were installing their own equipment in exchanges. I knew, technically, that I was still in the BT network and that it was simple to change providers. But because I knew this was the case, technically, it had never been written down or referenced anywhere and when I signed on the dotted line with Sky I presumably signed away my rights to the line too.

Last year they must have installed their own equipment in the local exchange and transferred me across. Though, why Sky thought they had to send out a letter anyway is strange the letter apparently said I had time to cancel the transfer as well. To the normal person they probably wouldn't have thought anything about it. Presumably because I was paying line rental to Sky, BT had no responsibility to tell me I was being moved into a locked down network.

Certainly on this regulation is not tight enough, and I should not have been transfered to what seems to be a locked down line. These locked-down lines shouldn't exist anyway! Some of this goes over my head, but I think I'm understanding this right. Life is too short to spend arguing with Sky on the phone too, the people I've come across so far have not been very helpful.

Anyway, BT's website tells me that I don't need an engineer and the line will be connected free of charge in three weeks time who knows why it takes that long! Though I'm sure in three weeks I'll be getting a call to say Sky has blocked the transfer of the line.
Standard User Spacemanc
(learned) Mon 04-Jul-11 11:58:38
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Re: Sky has taken over my line?


[re: skyisthelimit] [link to this post]
 
Thats interesting sky. How did you enter the order on BT's website? They cannot "see" your Sky LUU phone number on the system, so like uno said they have to search by address. Then when you change it has to be physically moved over and checked by an engineer. Are you absolutely sure you are full LLU and not just LLU broadband?

If you are joining BT for free from LLU, then they have waived their fee - BT will still pay a fee to Openworld, who charge all providers for their work. BTuse this as a sales tactic and they simply make that money up in their higher charges and 18 month contracts.

Anyway post an update on what happens. I'm sure other people in a similar situation in future will find it useful.
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