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Standard User Fugitive_Legacy
(newbie) Tue 08-May-12 23:21:07
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SKY Horrendously slow?


[link to this post]
 
I've just moved from another ISP to sky Unlimited.

The broadband was activated today at around 13:00pm, and initially synced at 4Mb/s down and 0.5Mb/s up. The connection was running pretty well hitting about 3.8Mb/s on speedtest.net with around 45ms.

However, as I synced perfectly at 10.1Mb/s down and 1Mb/s up on my previous ISP I wanted to just check how long it would take before my profile would be set to around the 10Mb/s mark, with sky.

I called Sky and asked them about this and they also asked if I gamed on my broadband, I said yes and the assistant said that he could place me on the 10Mb/s gaming profile. So I agreed. My sync was now at 10Mb/s on the router though my upload was still slower than my past ISP at only 796Kb/s.

Running another speed test I got al right results: [Link]

However, about 3 hours ago, 8pm, I am trying to play League of Legends and I notice my latency in game is +400ms. I double check I don't have any other programs using bandwidth. I don't. I also restart my PC and the router and unplug my sky+HD box from the router as well.

After all this no luck, speedtest.net is giving me shocking results: [Link] - I'm located in Canterbury

Is this congestion, thinking about the time?

Also the Canterbury exchange was supposedly fixed at the end of April after suffering intermittent connection problems including slow browsing and high latency. But I don't know if 300ms is fixed?

Browsing is possible, small sites load and larger ones take a while. But that's about it.

I have also just phoned Sky support, [shocking] is all I have to say. According to the assistant and based solely on my sync which is still 10Mb/s my line is absolutely perfect. Even after explaining everything, doing all the tests, three different monitors including TBB's own latency monitor. Even CMD > ping google.co.uk is over 200ms!
According to the Sky assistant if your sync is at their recommended rate (over 9Mb/s) as it was my line has no problems. He refused to acknowledge that possibly the latency was a fault on sky's end and said all tests I had made (speedtest.net, TBB, even CMD) were 3rd party and meaningless and could not be trusted.

I will also add that I tested with 3 different PCs connected to the sky router only 1 at a time. SO ITS NOT THE PCs!
- -
Ping test:
- -
C:\Users\*******>ping www.google.co.uk

Pinging www-cctld.l.google.com [173.194.67.94] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 173.194.67.94: bytes=32 time=205ms TTL=49
Reply from 173.194.67.94: bytes=32 time=237ms TTL=49
Reply from 173.194.67.94: bytes=32 time=214ms TTL=49
Reply from 173.194.67.94: bytes=32 time=251ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 173.194.67.94:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 205ms, Maximum = 251ms, Average = 226ms
- -
Tracert is looking very odd as well:
- -
Tracing route to www-cctld.l.google.com [173.194.67.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms SkyRouter.Home [192.168.1.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 199 ms 244 ms 210 ms wi-in-f94.1e100.net [173.194.67.94]

Trace complete.

Anyone else having problems, I hope this resolves itself. But if this starts again tomorrow night then I am certain its congestion.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 09-May-12 00:15:31
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: Fugitive_Legacy] [link to this post]
 
Double check the noise margin to make sure its not low.

But most likely to be congestion., when you get a tracert to work, try setting a BQM on our site to the exchange IP address. This might show congestion that is independent of your actual ADSL

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Fugitive_Legacy
(newbie) Thu 10-May-12 00:09:28
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just an update on my situation:

Have now had sky for just over 36 hours. Last night at around 8pm I had a massive increase in latency from about 33ms/45ms to about +350ms. Also my download speeds dropped of significantly from around the 7/8Mbps mark to any where between 0.5/2.5Mbps.

This caused streaming video to be near on impossible and online gaming is simply unplayable with in game latencies between 400ms - 750ms.

The problem slowly started to alleviate its self at around 12:30am this morning. Where speeds where back to normal and latency was around 35ms again.

3:36 - Speed Test

- - Today:
7:48 - Speed Test
9:45 - Speed Test

Unfortunately at around 6pm today I slowly saw latency once again increase slowly. Initially climbing from 35ms - 66ms between 6pm and 7pm. Speed dropped down a bit. By 8pm I was having quite high latency around the 150ms mark with speeds back to around 2.4Mbps. At around 10:30pm tonight it got completely ridiculous in game (LoL) latency was +1000ms and speeds were around 0.3Mbps, loading YouTube was impossible.

Currently the connection is recovering, speeds are still slow, but latency has reduced a bit.
11:09 - Speed Test

Naturally I am not able to use this service during peak hours at all. And family members coming home from work are complaining that just trying to access banking sites are taking ages. As this is the time that most people wish to use their broadband I understand the increased stress it places on a network, but to such a degree that my broadband is practically useless seems a bit unreasonable. Is Sky LLU broadband just like this or is it my exchange, etc?

- -
Here is a trace-route to bbc.co.uk and the problem seems to occur at the 3rd hop:

---------mac:~ ----------$ traceroute bbc.co.uk
traceroute to bbc.co.uk (212.58.241.131), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 skyrouter.home (192.168.1.1) 1.049 ms 0.450 ms 0.424 ms - Router
2 027ce37e.bb.sky.com (2.124.227.126) 24.644 ms 24.721 ms 23.801 ms - Exchange
3 10.245.131.129 (10.245.131.129) 195.034 ms 192.997 ms 192.124 ms - Problem
4 te0-7-0-7.er11.thlon.ov.easynet.net (89.200.134.55) 191.635 ms 191.813 ms 196.518 ms
5 212.58.238.189 (212.58.238.189) 187.432 ms 243.261 ms 203.997 ms
6 * * *
7 ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.46) 216.730 ms 210.768 ms 208.267 ms
8 132.185.255.134 (132.185.255.134) 204.080 ms 195.773 ms 192.879 ms
9 212.58.241.131 (212.58.241.131) 192.508 ms 192.406 ms 194.886 ms
-------mac:~ --------$

I could not believe that when I read this result to a sky phone tech support assistant he told my Terminal was 3rd party, could not be trusted and continued to state that my own equipment was at fault frown

I am pretty sure that its Sky's network which is at fault, specifically the 3rd hop/route 10.245.131.129, but is this part of the exchange or further than the exchange and finally is it congestion or a fault?

Considering that this problem only appears between 8pm and 12:30am I think it must be partly to do with congestion.

Here are my line stats:
System Up Time: 23:32:29

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9537 kbps 796 kbps
Line Attenuation 36.5 dB 21.8 dB
Noise Margin 6.6 dB 16.1 dB

My D/L noise margin during peak hours is around 6.6/6.7dB and about 7.2dB during non-peak hours.

Any advise would be appreciated at this point I am seriously regretting moving from my past ISP, got higher sync rates, especially on upload (almost double) and latency was hardly ever above 40ms.

Many people on the sky forums are also experiencing the same problems. One person also on the Canterbury exchange, but many others from other areas. All experiencing extremely similar problems: Same time and speeds dropping down to the same dismal speed, irrespective of actual sync-rate. However, there has been no official statement from Sky and the phone and forum support keep placing the blame on users equipment.

Edited by Fugitive_Legacy (Thu 10-May-12 00:09:54)


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Standard User Fugitive_Legacy
(newbie) Thu 10-May-12 00:14:40
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: Fugitive_Legacy] [link to this post]
 
Hope this works and helps:
Sky LLU Canterbury Monitor: 027ce37e.bb.sky.com (2.124.227.126)
Standard User simon194
(regular) Thu 10-May-12 00:19:19
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: Fugitive_Legacy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Fugitive_Legacy:
I've just moved from another ISP to sky Unlimited.

The broadband was activated today at around 13:00pm, and initially synced at 4Mb/s down and 0.5Mb/s up. The connection was running pretty well hitting about 3.8Mb/s on speedtest.net with around 45ms.


That's perfectly normal for Sky broadband until DLM kicks in on the 2nd or 3rd day after activation. It should have been mentioned in the letter you got after you ordered.
Standard User Fugitive_Legacy
(newbie) Thu 10-May-12 00:35:37
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
Thanks simon194

I was aware of DLM, however...

As I phoned sky about why I was first activated yesterday about only syncing at 4Mbps and how long DLM would take, the tech assistant then immediately placed me onto the 10Mbps Gaming Profile. If I am already this profile does DLM still take a few days?

Also I am not sure if DLM has anything to do with these sudden latency spikes and download speed drops during peak times. If I sync at currently 9.5Mbps, only getting 0.5 - 2.5Mbps through put at peak times does not seem fair or right to me.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 10-May-12 10:01:53
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: Fugitive_Legacy] [link to this post]
 
Something more like OR is to be expected during congestion.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 10-May-12 10:04:04
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: Fugitive_Legacy] [link to this post]
 
The jump to gaming has took you off of the DLM early.

Your problem looks to be congestion, plain and simple. Sky prefers natural congestion to traffic management, and with cheap unlimited, there will be periods of time like this.

Traffic management when used right, can help ensure HTTP traffic remains reasonable during peak times.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Fugitive_Legacy
(newbie) Thu 10-May-12 19:12:17
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the advise.

I have spent most of today on the phone to Sky, most of the time was spent explaining the problems I am experiencing to each individual sky support member. I initially called Sky's broadband technical support to find out if they had any knowledge of the issues I was experiencing during peak hours and whether they could fix it.

Needless to say the first tech support assistant had absolutely no clue what I was on about when I went into increases in Latency, server congestion and trace-routes. Eventually I did manage to speak to a senior support member who acknowledged the problem was not on my equipment and possibly not even the exchange.

As trace-routes indicate that the problem is on the 3rd hop/route:
3 10.245.131.129 (10.245.131.129) 195.034 ms 192.997 ms 192.124 ms - Problem

He contacted another senior technician who suddenly started stating it was somebody piggy-backing on my Wi-Fi between 8pm and 12:30am. I quickly explained how this was impossible as I only use WPS Wi-Fi security and frequently monitor who is connected to the router. Once again addressing how my router & exchange latencies are good 1ms and 24ms respectively. Proving that it was not my equipment. Both tech assistants concurred that it was a Sky issue. However, could not comment on a ETA for repair or upgrade.

I then stated that I had no desire to keep either my Sky Broadband or Sky Talk, if this was the case and would rather migrate back to my previous ISP. Neither technician tried to argue and even stated that considering the problems, moving ISP would be the fastest resolution. The tech support assistant then put me through to the cancelation department.

- -
Method 1: Migrating back to BE.
- -
However, this is where a series of issues arose:

The first was that the cancelation assistant stated that there was no issue with cancelling the service, as I had a.) technical reasons as well as b.) being within the 8-Days cool-down period. However, she stated that a cancelation would not be the best way to procede as it WOULD result in my phone number being tied to the cancelation and I would loose it, which I do not wish to happen.

She stated the best approach would be to rather migrate the service to a new ISP. But this is not as simple as it sounds.

My previous ISP was BE, for both my phone and broadband, and I wish to move back to BE as though I had certain troubles with BE latency has not been one of them for quite a while, since February, and at peak hours my broadband was the same as non-peak.

However, after calling Sky, I needed to call BE regarding migration back to them however. They state this is currently impossible as my line is tied/locked to Sky LLU. They then stated I would need to start a long complex migration process through preferable the Post-Office (or BT) for my phone line 1st. The Post-Office will then migrate my phone line back to openreach equipment and then I can apply for BE broadband and later move my phone line back to BE.

I am concerned about this method as first I don't want any penalties from Sky for leaving them during the contract period also I would like to keep my phone number which I currently have. If the post office makes a migration request to Sky I am concerned Sky may think I am breaching the contract, and not take into account the technical troubles. Also the process my take longer than my now 6-Day Cool-Down period.

- -
Method 2: Migrating back to BE.
- -

I decided to call Sky's cancelation department back to get more advise on how to migrate my land-line service to the Post-Office and "cancel" the broadband. The first cancelation assistant was useless saying if I canceled my broadband I would incur penalties as well as having to pay the remainder of the period of the contract and there was absolutely no way to migrate the phone line. I decided to say good-bye and call Sky's cancelation department again. Unfortunately I could not remember the first Cancelation Assistants name, who was very helpful earlier that day.

However, this time I got through to a very pleasant and helpful woman called Caroline. She check all my records and question a little about the technical difficulties. She then stated I was fully in the right to request a migration of the service; both due to the technical difficulties and that the service was still in the 8-Day Cool-Down period.

She then stated that no previous assistant had dealt with the situation correctly. She then stated that currently no ISP, such as BE, could migrate me as I was still bundled to Sky. But that she could start up a process where my landline would be unbundled from Sky something about SVNB (Sky Voice and Broadband Network). This would be completed by Wednesday and I would receive my MAC code also. She then stated that once this had taken place an ISP such as BE should be able to migrate me directly from Sky. Eliminating the need to go through the post office.

The problem with this router is that when phoning BE, they did not sound very confident that this would work. They said they would keep checking my land-line number to see if any change is made allowing them to migrate me. They aslo stated that if by Wednesday this Sky process does not work. I should immediately contact the Post-Office to migrate my land-line from Sky and then call BE back.

- -
At this moment I am now just waiting on Sky to proceed.

Finally:

Any advise would be very welcome.
I am wondering if I should not simply contact the Post-Office now to start up a migration request. Earlier when phoning the Post-Office I spoke to a sales member called Steve and he thought the best route would be to immediately start up a migration for my land-line and they would contact Sky.

- Apologies for the long post

Edited by Fugitive_Legacy (Thu 10-May-12 19:19:31)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 10-May-12 19:53:42
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Re: SKY Horrendously slow?


[re: Fugitive_Legacy] [link to this post]
 
Migrating away avoids cease fees, and also shows to Sky its there service you are unhappy with, not all broadband.

Be use WLR, just like Post Office, but they choose not to take people coming off of full LLU. so best option for you would to migrate phone service to Post Office, and broadband to a provider of your choosing, in theory could be Be.

The process is known as a Simultaneous Provide and is written up at
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/migration.html#s...

The key bit is the linking together of the orders, using the LORN, which means you have to state that this will be a SIM Provide when you start the order process.

Leaving full LLU means there is no MAC involved at all.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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