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Standard User Basil1234
(newbie) Sun 12-May-13 10:52:49
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Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[link to this post]
 
thought i would put this up its all over skys own forum have a read if anyone is thinking of getting fttc from sky i would hold off or use someone else.

http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Fibre-Br...

i am amazed that andrew hasn't picked up on this and put it up as a news article and spoken to sky about it because some users have had to put up with this issue for some 10months+

basically sky have got a thruput issue at exchange level between their equipment and bts equipment they are trying to sort a fix out but this has been ongoing for some 10 plus months ago. anyway the fix they are testing at the moment worked well for some and some people it has turned their speed in half again and its not been sorted fast at all.

I really thought people should be made aware of this issue considering getting fttc from sky some people could be walking into a right mare anyway hope this helps some of you make an informed choice being aware of this issue!

basil
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-May-13 11:18:10
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
It's sad really, people being excited by getting fibre speeds for the first time, and Sky essentially ruining it for them once they are connected.

Oliver.

Edited by Oliver341 (Sun 12-May-13 11:18:41)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 12-May-13 14:13:42
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
If there is a specific speed issue with Sky then if I do the same analysis as I've done for Talk Talk products at
http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2013/05/talktalk-broa...

Then it should reveal itself as a different shaped curve. Its not a quick thing to great the plots, as we have to filter the data to get rid of all the obvious mistakes, though as Sky is just consumer that should be simpler.

Was going to try and do just 1 or 2 a month, but if there are some active issues I may have to do all the big providers in one go

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 12-May-13 15:11:21
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
so there is a constraint on the link from Openreach to Sky, or the Sky network is generally congested in the affected exchanges ?

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User Basil1234
(newbie) Sun 12-May-13 17:33:51
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
as i have read it and understood it yarwell the problem is between certain sky hardware in the exchange talking thru bt gears and there lies the issue the actual thruput is half of actual sync speed they are trying to get new firmware written for the exchanges with said hardware involved, so is not bt fault but a direct result of some of skys chosen vendor hardware.

which sky are remaining very tight lipped about there is a manager on the forum with no technical expertise at all just a customer service manager offering only the lip service but she has taken upon herself to take ownership of said issue which basically amounts to lip service and putting people on an inside list of people that are effected so therefor appear to the outside world to be doing something but i reckon alot of people don't even know they are effected they look at there sync speed and think they get what they are paying for! I wonder how many GB sky are saving by this country wide? almost like throttling by the back door imho a serious charge.

but it seriously needs looking at as some people have been having this issue for 10months plus with keep promising of a fix every so often i'm inclined to believe it is down to sky buying cheap equipment at exchange level on some of its infrastructure overall which is quite concerning that users are not aware of could be getting themselves a whole host of issues basically not getting what they are paying for.
imho it becomes simple as this in one word theft, you wouldn't pay for half a mobile contract minutes would you?

also one other concern with regards sky is the pricing on fttc its a year old now and there pricing is very uncompetitive compared with other suppliers out there such as plusnet and even bt maybe andrew could get an answer out of them because also in the forums the officials keep ignoring the questions or claim everything is hunky dory and its all ok. personally i think they have to make more money to pay for o2/be buy out and people won't work it out.

hope it has helped
basil
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 12-May-13 18:42:45
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
Half sync speed or half the throughput for the reported sync speed?

Varying over time? Or always the same?

Have people on the affected exchanges cross referenced to people with other providers, to ensure its not just unusually higher fibre takeup and the 15 Meg and 30 Meg reserved bandwith on the Openreach leg kicking in.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 00:23:52
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Full synch but only half throughput speed.

This is the latest thread on the matter (there was a previous long thread, which wasn't created by Sky staff): http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Fibre-Br...

Oliver.
Standard User mysticeddy
(regular) Mon 13-May-13 00:41:00
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
Luckily it would appear my exchange has the 'good' kit installed, as I've had consistent 38Mb throughout since having the service over a year ago. It wasn't long after my install (end of April) that I started to see threads appearing about this half speed issue. Looks like I've dodged a bullet so to speak smile. Still, the product's been on the market for over a year, you'd think they would have sorted this mess out by now!
Standard User simon194
(committed) Mon 13-May-13 00:57:44
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The issue is that the throughput is roughly half the sync speed and it stays the same. Originally it was thought to be related to the IP address range because customers with the issue had 176.xxx.xxx.xxx IP addresses but this proved to be a red herring in the end.

Personally I've never had this problem although we did have peak time congestion issues last year until Alcatel-Lucent upgraded the backhaul and the throughput has been OK since.

TBH I don't think the issue is particularly widespread as it appears because as with all these sorts of issues it's the people with the problem that report it on forums. It would be interesting to know if it's the original LLU'd exchanges that are seeing the problem because Sky didn't have an LLU presence at my local exchange until 2009 by which time I think Sky had switched from Telent to Alcatel for their network maintenance.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 13-May-13 04:25:24
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
Not got this issue myself. What is interesting is a friend on the same exchange was convinced that they had the half throughput issue and I asked if they were using wireless, their response yes. The Sky router is unlikely to give full 40Mbps or even 80Mbps wirelessly. I think this causes issues for people who don't fully understand the technology, they see a connection at 144Mbps and assume it's faster than ethernet.

I get the full 80Mbps down on Sky via ethernet. No issues.

I honestly think it's far less widespread than people think.
When speeds get this fast people need a perfectly ideal setup in order to get the full speeds. Plenty of people don't have this perfect setup. They do a quick google search, see other people have around half throughput and assume they have the problem too. Actual fact is it's probably their OS, wireless card, laptop speed etc slowing them down.

Of course some are affected but it's by no means a giantly widespread issue IMO
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 13-May-13 08:11:11
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
is this thread a duplicate? I replied to another on the same topic.

yep here it is.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4237671-sky...

Since the other thread is dead I suggest merging/closing it.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 13-May-13 08:13:24
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
quite possibly yes.

eg. earlier this year BT had a peering issue to tbb affecting tbb graphs, at the same time plusnet had some issues and people were jumping in assuming both were the same problems. Its all too easy for people to assume they have the same problem as someone else.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 09:44:07
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Have people on the affected exchanges cross referenced to people with other providers, to ensure its not just unusually higher fibre takeup and the 15 Meg and 30 Meg reserved bandwith on the Openreach leg kicking in.


Wouldn't Openreach have to upgrade the bandwidth to preserve that 15/30Mb guarantee, thereby making take up irrelevant?

The issue is pretty consistent from the people reporting it. It's not the Openreach guarantee, that'd require the customers on the cabinet to be averaging a phenomenal amount of usage each.

Sky admit it's engineering issues on their core network, relates to the Alcatel Broadband Network Gateways, SR 7750s, they are terminating the PPPoE sessions on I believe.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 13-May-13 09:45:28
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
They would, but they can run it so that while for the majority the presence of the 15 and 30 is noticed, that in some areas for some time that available bandwidth may drop at peak times.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 13-May-13 09:46:22
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
Immediate red-herring as an IP address does nothing to hold back throughput, unless one block is being routed differently, e.g. as part of an experiment.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 13-May-13 09:47:49
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
And should add in your final line you've summarised the issue, and saved hours of trying to figure out stuff

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 13-May-13 10:08:35
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
They would, but they can run it so that while for the majority the presence of the 15 and 30 is noticed, that in some areas for some time that available bandwidth may drop at peak times.


I don't think takeup will affect the 15 / 30 minima, but bandwidth usage could.

If a 1 Gig fibre feeds a line card of 24 - 48 line capacity there's a designed in match of capacity but 20 lines running at 50M simultaneously would max it out.

The cab I looked at had dedicated fibres per line card with 6 fibre pairs capability, don't know if this continued into the smaller more recent cabs.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 10:31:06
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
And should add in your final line you've summarised the issue, and saved hours of trying to figure out stuff


Spent a while reading the forum thread, noted that it didn't affect customers exchange wide, ruling out the local exchange equipment and backhauls, Sky admitted it was their issue ruling out modem, cabinet and layer 2 switch, leaving the single point of failure the Sky BNGs.

How stupid will I look if I'm wrong now...
Standard User speedyrite
(regular) Mon 13-May-13 10:32:07
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Sky admit it's engineering issues on their core network, relates to the Alcatel Broadband Network Gateways, SR 7750s, they are terminating the PPPoE sessions on I believe.


Have long suspected it was certain kit at certain locations, but was unaware of the specifics and haven't seen the issue pinned down to specific kit before. Is there a source for this info? Is it re-configuration that's needed or revised OS/firmware?

PS. I don't think you are wrong!

Edited by speedyrite (Mon 13-May-13 10:33:37)

Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 11:10:19
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Spent a while reading the forum thread, noted that it didn't affect customers exchange wide, ruling out the local exchange equipment and backhauls, Sky admitted it was their issue ruling out modem, cabinet and layer 2 switch, leaving the single point of failure the Sky BNGs.

Plusnet customers often seem to see varying results depending on the "gateway" they are connected to. Do Sky use the same "gateway" setup and could it be a factor?

Oliver.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 13-May-13 11:21:46
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
this post?

http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Fibre-Br...

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 19:37:12
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Sky admit it's engineering issues on their core network, relates to the Alcatel Broadband Network Gateways, SR 7750s, they are terminating the PPPoE sessions on I believe.

Except Sky doesn't use PPP on their fibre products. Maybe ETHoA, or IPoA or whatever its called, but you just need a modified DHCP client connected to the Openreach modem, and in your DHCP client options you provide the userid/password pair.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 19:55:49
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Mmm forgot that part, thank you. Hardware terminating it is the same though, Alcatel SR 7750.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-May-13 21:25:48
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Mmm forgot that part, thank you. Hardware terminating it is the same though, Alcatel SR 7750.


Could be a bug given they don't use PPP. I recall the DHCP bugs in Netgear firmware found on the O2 and BE networks, which probably came to light on the only UK ISP that didn't use PPP smile

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 16:33:25
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Speed Graphs


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2013/05/a-look-at-sky...

A quick analysis from our speedtests. Slightly odd shape for the Fibre Pro product, wonder if that is showing the problem people are talking about.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 17:13:35
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
What's the X-axis?


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 19:00:03
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
As I say its a speed profile, so just all the tests arranged in order of descending speed.

This means if an ISP is running a speed cap e.g. 8Mbps you should see a flatish line at 8 Mbps if lots of people hit it.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 19:48:01
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
So won't the graph just become a 45 degree straight line as more speedtests are done?


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Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 20-May-13 19:58:34
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
So won't the graph just become a 45 degree straight line as more speedtests are done?

Given a big enough distribution yes - but I doubt the UK phonelines are that consistent.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 20:02:18
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Would it be better to plot the number of speedtests having a particular value on the X axis?


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Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 20-May-13 20:23:02
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Would it be better to plot the number of speedtests having a particular value on the X axis?

That might give rise to some people thinking its too close to date leakage if only a few people had a specific speed.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 20:25:58
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
You mean a distribution graph, yes that is another way

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 20:28:37
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Only if the speeds people are getting are a perfectly linear distribution and VDSL and ADSL2+ over distance is not linear distribution and distribution of line lengths are not either.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 20:35:15
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, I just don't understand what the current graph shows or what conclusions can be drawn from it. Both axes appear to have the same values.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 21:08:43
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
If they had the same values it would be a 1:1 gradient graph.

If there is 2 million tests on the graph, the 1 millionth test will be half way along the x-axis

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 21:23:34
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If they had the same values it would be a 1:1 gradient graph.
That's what I was saying.
If there is 2 million tests on the graph, the 1 millionth test will be half way along the x-axis
I thought you said they were sorted into descending speedtest result order?


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Edited by BatBoy (Mon 20-May-13 21:24:29)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 23:11:38
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Think of how you determine the median figure.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 23:14:54
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Is the raw data available?


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-May-13 23:16:17
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
No. Why?

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-May-13 23:20:24
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Because I don't understand the graph.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-May-13 00:24:41
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I'll do a pie chart next time

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 21-May-13 07:45:18
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think I would prefer a distribution graph, if poss.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-May-13 10:39:31
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
And what would sir like on the X axis and Y axis exactly

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 21-May-13 12:31:47
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think you have to divide the results into slots or bins and then graph the frequency that each of the bins has.

So you would have the x axis representing bins of 0-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60-80, say and the y axis representing the count of how many results are in each on the bins.

see http://www.ncsu.edu/labwrite/res/gt/gt-bar-home.html...


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-May-13 13:11:16
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Now for you to tell me what size bins to use

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 21-May-13 13:14:04
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Re: Speed Graphs


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
bins of 0-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60-80, say. Or 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80.
How many results are there?


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Standard User epyon
(experienced) Tue 28-May-13 10:54:55
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Re: Sky fttc thruput issues on sky network.....


[re: Basil1234] [link to this post]
 
Haha really this is still going on huh?

i left sky FTTC over 6 months ago about this

good to see i made the right choice

i knew waiting wouldn't do any good.

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