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Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Tue 18-Jun-13 15:38:58
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How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[link to this post]
 
Learnt today from a BT engineering working on my caninet that the service would be ready to order in 4-6 weeks. He said the new cabinet had its fiber already and it was all up and running.

How long do sky take to order the GEA link, to enable me to order?

I heard a few months ago that Sky could take a very long time, or not bother to order such a link at all?

If this is still the case, I will just swap to BT as I don't want the cabinet to be at full capacity by the time Sky order the link!

Many Thanks.

My Broadband Speed Test
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Standard User Nighty1973
(member) Tue 18-Jun-13 16:11:11
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
In short, it could be weeks or it could be months. Either way, Sky will never tell you as it is "business sensitive information".

Some have been able to order fibre almost immediately after their exchange goes live. Me, I had to wait 10 MONTHS for the GEA link to be installed.
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Tue 18-Jun-13 17:40:32
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: Nighty1973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Nighty1973:
In short, it could be weeks or it could be months. Either way, Sky will never tell you as it is "business sensitive information".

Some have been able to order fibre almost immediately after their exchange goes live. Me, I had to wait 10 MONTHS for the GEA link to be installed.


10months!

I guess I should start preparing to swap to BT then, I don't want to wait any longer for FTTC!

Are BT able to do the migration process these days without me loosing internet? Currently fully LLU for voice/data.

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Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Jun-13 18:42:10
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
Wait until you can place an order on the BT infinity web site for your post code. Then wait 1-2 weeks checking the SKY ordering service. I only had to wait 1 week for SKY to offer FTTC once BT wholesale said the service was available. (BT Infinity ordering went live the same time the BT wholesale said FTTC was available).

Then after 2 weeks you can make your decision on moving to Infinity or not. I would suggest the move from SKY to Infinity would work without problems. We do not see screaming people on this board complaining of mistakes.

IanD
Standard User asbokid
(member) Tue 18-Jun-13 19:41:00
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
It's difficult to see how the Other Licensed Operators (aka Sky and TalkTalk) will ever make a profit from FTTC. The Ofcom complaints from TalkTalk seem valid (and long overdue).
A GEA Cablelink, which is a solitary 1Gbps fibre tie-cable linking BT's MDF to the OLO's HDF, is charged at a whopping £2000 by BT Wholesale.
Ignoring statistical multiplexing, it will take just twelve LLU customers maxed out on 80/20 profiles to saturate the bandwidth of that single link. And then the OLO will have to buy another tie-cable.
For the OLOs, it's going to take a long time to claw back even that single capital expenditure from their revenues.
The economic situation is further aggravated by a wholly-owned BT Group company selling FTTC as a loss-leader (with prices starting from £7.99 a month)
Yet BT Wholesale is charging Communications Providers £19.20 a month just to rent a VDSL2 port at the street DSLAM. On top of that, the OLO has to pay for all its backhaul costs.
We could soon be witnessing the winding--down of LLU operators. Sky and TalkTalk might continue to profit from the (dwindling) ADSL market but BT's dominant position in FTTC means that for an OLO, there's little point in even entering that market.

cheers, a

Edited by asbokid (Tue 18-Jun-13 19:59:17)

Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Tue 18-Jun-13 19:51:43
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iand:
Wait until you can place an order on the BT infinity web site for your post code. Then wait 1-2 weeks checking the SKY ordering service. I only had to wait 1 week for SKY to offer FTTC once BT wholesale said the service was available. (BT Infinity ordering went live the same time the BT wholesale said FTTC was available).

Then after 2 weeks you can make your decision on moving to Infinity or not. I would suggest the move from SKY to Infinity would work without problems. We do not see screaming people on this board complaining of mistakes.


Sounds reasonable, but as I understand it, there is no way to know for sure that they will order the GEA link quickly, so could take 10 months like the other poster mentioned?

Plus, I'm assuming that upgrading to Sky Fiber would renew a 12month contract with sky, not alllowing me to swap to infinity etc

My Broadband Speed Test
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Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Jun-13 22:12:17
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by asbokid:
(with prices starting from £7.99 a month).....Yet BT Wholesale is charging Communications Providers £19.20 a month just to rent a VDSL2 port at the street DSLAM.
Huh? Some'at seems wrong there. BT Retail sells FTTC for a lot less than £57.99 a month and I can't believe that BTw charge £519.20 a month for a VDSL2 port either. Something's not right with those figures, surely?

I also think you'll find that the chances of 12 people all running their connection flat out at the same time are fairly low. But overall I do agree. I said as much several years ago when FTTC was just being announced especially in conjunction with WBMC - there just doesn't seem many areas left where LLUOs can undercut BTw based products or provide a better service

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Tue 18-Jun-13 22:16:24)

Standard User asbokid
(member) Wed 19-Jun-13 01:20:08
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Huh? Some'at seems wrong there. BT Retail sells FTTC for a lot less than £57.99 a month and I can't believe that BTw charge £519.20 a month for a VDSL2 port either. Something's not right with those figures, surely?

I said as much several years ago when FTTC was just being announced especially in conjunction with WBMC - there just doesn't seem many areas left where LLUOs can undercut BTw based products or provide a better service

Oops the pound signs weren't properly rendering, coupled with the folly of copying BT prices from the comments section of a website. Better stick with GBP and the official price lists!

The current BT Openreach price list shows a wholesale rental charge for an 80/20 VDSL2 DSLAM port of GBP 119.40 per annum. That's GBP 9.95 per month. And then there's a hefty connection fee of GBP 92.00 (masked by lengthy minimum term retail contracts). Prices are ex. VAT [1]

In May 2013, a "confidential" WIK-Consult report commissioned by TalkTalk plc was "leaked". The authors of that report claim that the base case cost to Openreach of providing a VDSL2 port (almost regardless of its provisioned speed) is just GBP 4.39 a month. [2]

In other words, BT Openreach is making a comfortable profit from FTTC.

Back in May 2012, Andrew Ferguson of ThinkBroadband laid out the economics, as they were understood back then, of GEA Wholesale costs. [3] That was at the time that TalkTalk was first raising its objections to what it claims is a margin squeeze by BT. We can add to Andrew's figures, the astronomical GBP 2000 cost to LLU operators for the "GEA Cablelink" (an MDF to HDF 1 Gbps fibre optic tie-cable).

It is that poxy cable, worth just a couple of quid, which in part is holding up LLU rollout of fibre products across Britain. TalkTalk apparently has just 5,000 FTTC subscribers compared to over 400,000 for BT Retail and Plus Net. And yet that GBP 2000 bill for a tie-cable while huge is just the tip of the iceberg. The LLU operator still has his opex and possible capex costs for the fibre backhaul to price in, including new layer 2 switching in all the hand-over exchanges.

Okay, so BT officially operates under (somewhat fanciful) conditions of EOA - applying "equivalence" in access costs to its own subsidiary companies and competitors alike. Nevertheless, at BT Group level this condition is irrelevant. The Group can afford to run BT Retail and Plus Net on an artificially low profit margin, or even at a loss, recouping those losses through bumper revenues at Openreach. That seems to be what's happening.

Though it's not all sour grapes over BT. Britain sorely needed this investment, and BT was the only company with the wherewithal to find the GBP2.5bn the fibre rollout has apparently cost. And in a sense it feels like TalkTalk and Sky are behaving like parasites, since they invested nothing of their own in the cabinet rollout itself. However, if we are left with no competition in the faster broadband market place, BT is in a predatory position. Better off under state ownership, then. Where its "profits" could rightly be used to pay for other important investments like Aunty Maud's long-overdue haemorrhoids operation smile

cheers, a

[1] http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricin...

[2] http://br0kent3l3ph0n3.wordpress.com/2013/05/05/bts-...

[3] http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5217-talktalk-rai...

Edited by asbokid (Wed 19-Jun-13 02:21:52)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 19-Jun-13 17:28:08
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
BT retail are operating in the black. of course dont know how much of that is due to eg. call revenues or line rental rather than broadband.

As I understand (understood) the BT retail prices are set higher then BTw. So there is a margin there, the quesion is if its big enough.

I think all the major isps are quite possibly (but dont know really) loss leading, as they all gunning for triple play subs.

Isp's that dont do triple play charge way more than all of talktalk, bt and sky.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User simon194
(committed) Wed 19-Jun-13 21:40:59
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
When the cab went live at my last place I could order Sky fibre the day after I could order BT Infinity. Admittedly the exchange was AO 6 weeks earlier so I'm not sure when Sky fibre was actually available.
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Jun-13 23:39:32
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
I agree with the principle of your argument but the numbers are wrong on the subscriber counts.

BT Infinity had 400,000 as long ago as December 2011, and I have a feeling it's 4m plus now.

TalkTalk last I heard was coming up to 1m (I think)

the rest get what's left.

BT do have a very dominant position on FTTC as pretty much every single time I discuss fibre with them, they think BT Infinity is THE option and are amazed anyone else can even offer it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Jun-13 23:45:46
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
Both are wrong on numbers of customers

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5833-bt-group-pub...
1.3 million on Infinity

Another 200,000 spread over the other providers.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5847-talktalk-res...
TalkTalk 73,000 fibre customers.

Sky is unknown, but will be growing as now advertising it on TV

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User asbokid
(member) Thu 20-Jun-13 17:03:20
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ahh.. Thanks Andrew, for the up-to-date figures.

73,000 FTTC subscribers nationwide still seems vanishingly few. It would be interesting to see them listed by exchange or exchange size or market type. What criteria is TalkTalk using to enable roll-out fibre to its LLU'ed exchanges? Some customers have waited months (and some are still waiting) for TalkTalk to rollout fibre at their exchange.

TalkTalk is uncharacteristically downbeat in its forecast of future fibre take-up. That from an aggressive company which is legendary for bombarding us with relentless marketing.

The same forecast is also punctuated with renewed grumbles about the lack of a "level playing field" and repeated allegations of BT abusing its market dominance. [1]

Sour grapes for sure. But it's almost as if TalkTalk doesn't really wants to enter the fibre market as a major player. At least not until those regulatory issues are resolved. It's a shame, especially as it will be months or even years before there's a legal outcome, whether or not in TalkTalk's favour.

Whatever anyone's views on TalkTalk and its level of service (admittedly dire at times) it's almost universally agreed that the company has played a big part in driving down the cost of residential internet provision (and take-up). It's unwillingness at the current time to get its gloves off fully in the fibre market is disappointing.

cheers, a

[1] http://www.talktalkgroup.com/~/media/Files/T/TalkTal...
Standard User _Resonance_
(regular) Thu 20-Jun-13 17:17:31
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
I could order Sky fibre straight away, so you might be lucky and not have to wait.

Sky Fibre Unlimited
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Jun-13 18:08:04
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
you are right there is no way of knowing, but if after 2 weeks its not there then you can order infinity...

IanD
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Jun-13 18:41:47
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
I was checking each day for about 1 week. It then started accepting orders via sky. I then ordered and here I am...

IanD
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Jun-13 19:19:45
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Those numbers make the assumption underlying Openreach's pricing, an FTTC take up of 20% of homes passed, seem rather pessimistic.

Certainly the deployments I've seen around here seem to be quite optimistic about take up, over 95% of them being the biggest 288 Huawei.
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 21-Jun-13 08:41:31
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
I would guess talktalk are downbeat on fibre because they don't have quite the same very low price for fibre as they do for ADSL. At £15 for the top package that is only £5 cheaper than a number of other providers who have better reputations.

I suspect most people will look at it then go with one of the other providers. I can't even tell from the website if there are any download limits - normally if there aren't then "unlimited" is plastered everywhere but I can't easily find anything either positive or negative about any limits.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 21-Jun-13 09:07:40
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
wel I have observed talktalk seem very late in getting their GEA link enabled in activated areas. Plus in terms of advertising I have only seen BT and sky adverts. I think I have seen plusnet ads on youtube. None whatsoever from talktalk.

I am not a fan of talktalk, so they get no sympathy from me as I still believe they single handedly trashed the adsl market years ago. They simply drove the percieved value of broadband down to the floor.

What we seeing now with companies seemingly loss leading on broadband is a situation talktalk started.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 21-Jun-13 09:09:42
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
yes my guess is talktalk want a situation where they can do something silly like sell FTTC for a fiver.

in terms of the topic.

I went with infinity as I was been impatient, but I think within 2 weeks sky had enabled the exchange.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 21-Jun-13 09:11:13)

Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Thu 27-Jun-13 23:11:33
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Both are wrong on numbers of customers

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5833-bt-group-pub...
1.3 million on Infinity

Another 200,000 spread over the other providers.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5847-talktalk-res...
TalkTalk 73,000 fibre customers.

Sky is unknown, but will be growing as now advertising it on TV


Thanks for the clarification on the numbers, although I still find those numbers hard to believe given just how many fibre links I know of (and how many my own company handles).

Still sad that BT Infinity has the lions share again, so much for equivalence.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 28-Jun-13 10:33:56
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
Well I very much doubt Openreach is under reporting the figures

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User browney
(newbie) Mon 01-Jul-13 10:20:53
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
For me it was the same day
Standard User Philce
(committed) Wed 03-Jul-13 12:18:41
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
I was able to order from SKY within days of Infinity being available.

Had to wait 8 weeks for the install though due to "demand"!
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 03-Jul-13 13:31:09
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
When did the exchange itself go live?

Is your cabinet among the first on your exchange to go live or an in-fill?
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Fri 05-Jul-13 18:24:49
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
When did the exchange itself go live?

Is your cabinet among the first on your exchange to go live or an in-fill?


The exchange went live two days ago, my cabinet was installed roughly within 2 weeks of all the others I know of in the Exchange area.

The cabinet had power, fiber and the engineer was finishing the connecting cable from the new cabinet to the old one, on the 18th, so I'm quite confident that I'll be able to order very soon.

I did notice a huge billboard sign advertising 'Sky Fiber is here!' in my town today, so maybe the GEA link is already up and running?

I'm checking the BT and Sky websites daily to know when I can order etc, just hope Sky is available soon after!

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Jul-13 20:27:58
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
good luck. FTTC is worth the wait smile

IanD

Edited by iand (Fri 05-Jul-13 20:28:24)

Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Sat 06-Jul-13 20:43:15
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iand:
good luck. FTTC is worth the wait smile


Yeh I can't wait to ditch my 3mbit adsl connection!

My Broadband Speed Test
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Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Tue 16-Jul-13 17:56:08
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
Update for anyone who is in the same boat as me.

Been checking the BT checker each day, to see when my cabinet would be live for ordering. Checked today and it's accepting orders!

Checked Sky, and I can order from them straight away!

So look like Sky got their act together in purchasing this GEA link quickly, as of lately.

Thanks for the help everyone smile Install date 17th of July, can't wait! laugh

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-Jul-13 18:01:52
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dave2150:
Thanks for the help everyone smile Install date 17th of July, can't wait! laugh

Looks like you don't have to, if they're installing it tomorrow!

Oliver.
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Tue 16-Jul-13 18:25:17
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by dave2150:
Thanks for the help everyone smile Install date 17th of July, can't wait! laugh

Looks like you don't have to, if they're installing it tomorrow!


Sadly a typo! Should have read Tuesday July 30 2013,, not too long to wait. Had a 3mbit max sync with adsl for the last 8 years here, so the 32mbit sync they are advising me of will be a very welcome change laugh

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 17-Jul-13 18:09:50
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
let us know what you get, speed wise, once its connected.

IanD
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Fri 19-Jul-13 16:09:25
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iand:
let us know what you get, speed wise, once its connected.


Will do. Straight line distance from my house to the cabinet is 600 meters, hopefully the telephone cables don't deviate from this too much.

I know that most of the telephone cables in this area are aluminium, so that's why the estimated sync is only 30mbit I guess.

I'll be very happy with a stable 30mbit, such a huge increase over my 3mbit adsl connection (63db attenuation currently).

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User simon194
(committed) Sun 21-Jul-13 09:33:40
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dave2150:
Will do. Straight line distance from my house to the cabinet is 600 meters, hopefully the telephone cables don't deviate from this too much.

Personally I would measure the distance from your house to the cabinet by road to get a more accurate distance as that is the logical route the line will most likely take.
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Tue 30-Jul-13 11:05:42
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iand:
let us know what you get, speed wise, once its connected.


Up and running today!

Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 39468
UpStream Connection Speed 7984

Very pleased I'm getting faster than they advised me. I ordered the 40/10 package, as I wanted to check what the line was capable of before spending £10 a month more with sky for the 80/20.

Now I just need to unlock my modem to find out if it's capable of more, though I doubt it will be capable of a significant improvement, based on my current sync speeds.

Anyhow, it really is a night and day difference coming from my old 62db attenuation 3mbit adsl line!

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Aug-13 21:19:17
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
I bet you are pleased now. I would wait a few weeks and then decide if you want to go for the next speed setting for an extra £10 or if what you have is good enough.

IanD
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Aug-13 21:53:48
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
The guy can't get a full 40Mb / 10Mb sync so there is no value in spending the extra for the 80Mb / 20Mb product.
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 03-Aug-13 08:21:55
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I may think that and you may think that, but lets see what happens after 2-3 weeks and then the op can make his/her mind up. It would be interesting to know if the physical house wiring could be tweaked to get a better rate, or as you have said, its just sitting just under the 40/10 limit and nothing else would make it faster.

In my case I could go to a 120/50 type service on my line, but currently buying a 40/10 service.

IanD
Standard User trolleybus
(member) Sat 03-Aug-13 08:33:27
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Re: How long a wait for GEA link, once a cab goes live?


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dave2150:
In reply to a post by iand:
let us know what you get, speed wise, once its connected.


Up and running today!

Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 39468
UpStream Connection Speed 7984

Very pleased I'm getting faster than they advised me. I ordered the 40/10 package, as I wanted to check what the line was capable of before spending £10 a month more with sky for the 80/20.

Now I just need to unlock my modem to find out if it's capable of more, though I doubt it will be capable of a significant improvement, based on my current sync speeds.

Anyhow, it really is a night and day difference coming from my old 62db attenuation 3mbit adsl line!


Just fill us in with a little more details please especially the costs and who your phone rental is payable to. Did you find only have three usable Ethernet ports a bit of a nuisance?
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