User comments on ISPs
  >> Sky Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User craggs
(committed) Sun 29-Mar-15 21:52:31
Print Post

Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[link to this post]
 
After my resent problems a few weeks ago regarding the router freezing,now solved by using my old Be* router,,The DLM has kicked in again on my line.It is a nightmare as each time it kicks in it sets my line at 3db,,which causes disconnections,if I wait till it see's the disconnections it will kick in again,and just set at 3db's again.

I have rang sky 3 times already since November and each time after going through 24 hr line testing etc,a 2nd line tech support will ring and re-profile my line to 6-10db which makes it stable for weeks on end.

Until about the 6wk mark when DLM decides to mess it up.

The tech lads I've spoken to over the time say my line is great but the DLM on some lines is just to aggressive and sets the upload at 2.5mb resulting in 3db,,when they adjust the line to 1.1mb upload the SNR goes to around 9-10db.

Each time they do a manual profile they freeze the DLM for a week.But maintime they cannot turn it off all together.

So does anyone know if the DLM can be switched off by sky permanently,as it is a real pain to ring them and keep going through the motions of testing-then trying to sell me fibre-then eventually 2nd line tech will ring.

Just to add,DLM has kicked in again on my line that has been connected for about 4-5 weeks.no disconnection no noise on the line nothing.

And my next question is which ISP doesn't use this DLM,,Does plusnet use it?

Sorry for the rant,just really annoying me having to ring sky to do a manual adjustment on the line.

here are my stats,,it disconnected for its testing about 2am last night.
Uptime: 0 days, 18:59:48

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.256 / 12.286

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1,47 / 2,43

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,1 / 18,9

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17,3 / 34,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 4,8 / 2,6

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 17 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1.593 / 18

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 980.684

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 172 / 1.977

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 67 / 0

sky llu
Standard User Sceptic
(experienced) Sun 29-Mar-15 23:24:47
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
Or you could try turning your router off and on once a week or so just to keep the DLM unhappy.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 30-Mar-15 00:24:50
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
I think the issue may be the BE router.

I say this because the BE router in my experience doesn't show a flappy noise margin where other routers do.

IE on my second line the BE router would always shows a noise margin fixed at 3db whereas the Sky Hub on the same line showed the noise margin ranging between 1db and 4db.

DLM on the Sky Hub sees the issue, sets the line to 6db noise margin.

With the BE router it keeps it at 3db.

I would personally get hold of a Sky Hub. For the record the Sky Hub does not freeze, mines had uptimes over 6 months, if yours does then it's faulty.

If that doesn't resolve things, Skys DLM is often stricter than the competition, so if you are seeing 3db with Sky you will probably see it elsewhere too.

How often are these disconnections with a 3db noise margin? I find it odd that DLM isn't noticing them during line testing, hence why you get the 3db margin.

Other ISPs, I believe virtually all have some kind of line management / DLM.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User craggs
(committed) Mon 30-Mar-15 01:23:55
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I don't think it's the Be router as I've only just gone back to using it around 4-5weeks ago due to the sky one freezing,, it's been setting the line at 3db with the SR102,,in fact 2 as I got a replacement.

What will happen is the DLM starts for no reason, during a solid connection time. Is will drop the connection at around 1-2am each night for about 3 nights. During this testing phase the line doesn't drop, even at 2.6db at night.

Then it will complete, I'll see this in my sky account, never take more than 3-4 days,, as soon as it completes, is starts disconnecting at night when the SNR drops from about 9pm,1-3 times, after about 3-6 days DLM starts again as it sees disconnections I assume,, during this time again it only disconnects at the specific times that DLM does, DLM can complete in just 3 days again,, as it doesn't disconnect during the DLM period, it keeps it at 3db.

Sky told me it's an issue they see on some accounts, no often, but, the tech guys new about it (whatever 'it' is) blamed the 2.5mb upload glitch (there words) , they said it's trying to connect at nearest the 2.5mb upload as it can resulting in low SNR.. Even though sky only do 1.2mb upload Max anyway., they said it's a glitch, as soon as they put my connection to around 1.1mb upload, I see the SNR at around 9ish dB. Perfect then, till next time.

They tell me everytime I ring they can see disconnections and lots of errors? Then when they reprofile they ring me back about every 2 days for a week, reporting no errors, or very few.

Told me I will have this issue again and again, but they will not switch DLM off permanently, only for about a week to let it settle after they reprofile the line.

Maybe I should unplug the router as suggested, but during DLM time?

Never had this with Be, it was just on 6db that's it. I'd love that again. smile

sky llu
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 30-Mar-15 07:33:35
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
There's no reason why your line wouldn't drop out during DLM testing. That's what I don't understand. It has the same likelihood during DLM as normally.

Can you get fibre where you are? It is likely to solve the issues as you won't see such a low noise margin on fibre normally.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Mar-15 08:20:48
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
2.5 upload is bull. That is annex m and should only be used in limited cases certainly is never used on standard sky. If flipping you between adsl2+ and annex m router should show a standard change too

Sr102 freezing is probably it behaving due to same problem

Talktalk and bt wholesale dlm can be pegged but can be a pain to do

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mlmclaren
(experienced) Mon 30-Mar-15 10:25:48
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sky sets 2.5mb as the maximum upstream as they where supposed to be implementing Annex M onto the LLU network around the UK...

However AFAIK it isn't currently activated on any lines or exchange equipment.

Sounds like a hardware issue, might be worth getting Sky to send another Sky Hub or source another router or modem that is known to work well on long lines (Though that can be tricky)

Plusnet Unlimited 21CN 4200/800 @ 4.2Km > TP-Link TD-W8968v3 - BQM IPv4
Plusnet Fibre Extra 66000/20000 @ 450m > HG612 (Unlocked) > Linksys LRT224 - BQM IPv4
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Mar-15 10:58:47
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
The annex M was afaik only meant to have been an option for old Be customers, if you can find 'official' and not internet rumour machine saying the whole Sky network was going to move to Annex M which only ever really benefited those with lines syncing above 16 Mbps then happy to change position.

Easy to tell if Annex M as modem reports the different standard.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mlmclaren
(experienced) Mon 30-Mar-15 11:42:30
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It was a Sky representative that told me about the Annex M implementation and that it would be based on DLM and also Sync speed & would be first rolled out to ExBe users in the Pro package which they planned to make public later on...

Not sure but I think they made the Pro ADSL public a while back but you have to call for it to be added after a standard unlimited service is activated.

Will a Sky hub report the difference though... and upstream speeds with with Annex M might not get much higher than Annex A, In my past experience when using O2 LLU I only saw a 150kbps improvement which pushed my 1000kbps to 1150 on a 2.5Km line.

Plusnet Unlimited 21CN 4200/800 @ 4.2Km > TP-Link TD-W8968v3 - BQM IPv4
Plusnet Fibre Extra 66000/20000 @ 450m > HG612 (Unlocked) > Linksys LRT224 - BQM IPv4
Standard User craggs
(committed) Mon 30-Mar-15 11:48:25
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Is this annex M?

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 9:05:23

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.274 / 11.198

sky llu
Standard User craggs
(committed) Mon 30-Mar-15 11:54:19
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
Sky sets 2.5mb as the maximum upstream as they where supposed to be implementing Annex M onto the LLU network around the UK...

However AFAIK it isn't currently activated on any lines or exchange equipment.

Sounds like a hardware issue, might be worth getting Sky to send another Sky Hub or source another router or modem that is known to work well on long lines (Though that can be tricky)


Hi, I have had 2 brand new sky hubs and it does the same when DLM kicks in, DLM sets to 2.5mb upload.

As it goes this be router actually hold sync at a lower dB than the sky.

sky llu
Standard User craggs
(committed) Mon 30-Mar-15 11:59:12
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The freezing of the router happened during the line being set correctly to the 1.2 upload. When manual DLM was set by tech.

I think it was just out cannot handle so many WiFi confections and LAN connections at once, but the be router had been fine since swapping it over.

sky llu
Standard User mlmclaren
(experienced) Mon 30-Mar-15 12:05:59
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by craggs:
Hi, I have had 2 brand new sky hubs and it does the same when DLM kicks in, DLM sets to 2.5mb upload.

As it goes this be router actually hold sync at a lower dB than the sky.


When I was with Sky on a 5km line my profile for upload was set to 2.5mbps too but obviously wouldn't get anywhere near that..

from the stats you provided it don't look like Annex M is enabled on your line.

When you say the BeBox holds the SNR better than Sky you mean it can drop lower than Sky Hub and stay connected... if so how low?

Theoretically you want to resent your router in the evening so that the SNR stays at around 3 or above throughout the day... this should stop any dropping of the connection...

If you resent it in the morning you will get more speed but as the day progresses and connections get busier you will find the SNR dipping too low and the modem resenting to get a better connection.

If the connection is dropping regardless of when the line is resysnced then Sky need to arrange Openreach to visit and have a look at the line as it may have an intermittent issue causing your SNR to drop too low for successful sync

When you have a 6db SNR your line may still have same issue but might have enough space to stay connected.

Plusnet Unlimited 21CN 4200/800 @ 4.2Km > TP-Link TD-W8968v3 - BQM IPv4
Plusnet Fibre Extra 66000/20000 @ 450m > HG612 (Unlocked) > Linksys LRT224 - BQM IPv4
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Mar-15 12:33:55
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
No G.992.5 is plain old ADSL2+

What are the stats when you have the mythical 2.5 Mbps upload set?

Lots of hardware does not cope well with Annex M and Be were one of the few to get it working reasonably well, the limited number of DSLAMs and people sticking with Be hardware for CPE helped a lot. Some older ADSL2+ does not even sync at all if Annex M is enabled.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-Mar-15 12:48:21
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Intriguingly, the My Sky control panel said "your upload is set to 2.5 meg" when I was with them, even though it was syncing around 1.2 meg. I wondered if it was an indication of impending Annex M, but since I wasn't on Pro it seemed somewhat odd.

Oliver.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Mar-15 15:26:02
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
I'd rather trust the modes as reported by the modem than a portal written by someone with no idea what all the terms mean.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-Mar-15 17:19:16
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
I'd rather trust the modes as reported by the modem than a portal written by someone with no idea what all the terms mean.

But My Sky previously said 1.3 meg, so someone made a conscious decision to alter it, and I doubt such thing can be made on a whim. Perhaps the change was only meant to be applied to Pro accounts in preparation for Annex M, but was mistakenly applied to all accounts.

It would be nice to get some official statement from Sky as to why My Sky was altered in such a way (if indeed it still shows 2.5 meg).

Oliver.
Standard User mlmclaren
(experienced) Mon 30-Mar-15 18:04:50
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
How long have you been a Sky BB customer, 1.3mb is still more than your current speed and when I was with Sky a while back mine used to say 1.3mb but only got 0.8mb.

It was the old default value for Sky, So Sky might of just updated your account to a newer configuration or something...

It's nothing to be worried about.

Sky's forums would be the best place for that or contact them by email direct but I doubt they will take much notice as it's not going to impact service.

Plusnet Unlimited 21CN 4200/800 @ 4.2Km > TP-Link TD-W8968v3 - BQM IPv4
Plusnet Fibre Extra 66000/20000 @ 450m > HG612 (Unlocked) > Linksys LRT224 - BQM IPv4
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-Mar-15 18:14:53
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
It's nothing to be worried about.

I spent 4 years with Sky but I'm not with them anymore. I was not worried about it but I was curious as to whether the 2.5 meg upload speed in My Sky was a sign of something to come, but it was never officially answered by anyone.

Oliver.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-Mar-15 18:25:21
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
For the sake of clarity, my line was not set to Annex M on Sky, and so My Sky was incorrect in the 2.5 meg upload speed quoted, since that is impossible to achieve on plain ADSL2+. Also I don't think Sky have ever officially publicly stated that Annex M will be introduced, although that would be a natural addition to the Pro feature set (as an optional profile).

Oliver.
Standard User craggs
(committed) Fri 03-Apr-15 01:00:31
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
DLM complete and here are my stats.

Uptime: 21:06:37
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:1.308 / 11.273
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]:2,07 / 1,99
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:12,1 / 19,1
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:17,2 / 34,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:2,7 / 5,4

Looks like it's set a low SNR upload again!!!!

From my sky page or says:--

Line connection testing completed on 01/04/2015, resulting in the following settings:

Download speed setting
Your connection has been set to a download speed of up to 12.3Mbps .

Upload speed setting
Your connection has been set to an upload speed of up to 2.6Mbps .

I'll have to ring sky and get them to manually up my SNR as this will start to disconnect multiple times now., it's a task pain it keeps doing this. It's funny as all we ever want is the fastest speed, but I'm actually wanted DLM to lower it!

Week plug the sky router back in tomorrow and see what that says and report the results back

sky llu

Edited by craggs (Fri 03-Apr-15 01:03:00)

Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Apr-15 10:30:01
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The annex M was afaik only meant to have been an option for old Be customers, if you can find 'official' and not internet rumour machine saying the whole Sky network was going to move to Annex M which only ever really benefited those with lines syncing above 16 Mbps then happy to change position.

Easy to tell if Annex M as modem reports the different standard.


Not strictly related to this discussion, but actually Annex M is useful on lines with sync's down as low as 8 meg - it can make for a .2 meg improvement or so in upstream - it might not sound a lot, but every little helps and I have customers who very much benefit from a small improvement in the upload speed.
Standard User whatever
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Apr-15 11:41:58
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
So is annex M available or not?

Because we had it, desparately want it, as it's our fastest possible upload speed. Despite being in the centre of town, we can't get fibre, Virgin want £4500 to cover 10ft of pavement, and cityfibre never happened.
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Apr-15 12:37:25
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: whatever] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by whatever:
So is annex M available or not?

Because we had it, desparately want it, as it's our fastest possible upload speed. Despite being in the centre of town, we can't get fibre, Virgin want £4500 to cover 10ft of pavement, and cityfibre never happened.


No, not through Sky. It is available through several BT Wholesale ISPs and those using TalkTalk Wholesale - costs vary. It is not available from BT Retail or BT Business.
Standard User craggs
(committed) Fri 10-Apr-15 23:56:07
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
Well for anyone following this I decided not to ring sky this time that DLM set my line profile to low again,,In reply to my previous reply that sky completed on the 1st,,as usual the line has dropped a few time's,,but not as much (about once a day) at the DLM set a 3db line.

Anyway here we go again,rinse and repeat................

Testing on your broadband connection began on 08/04/2015 and will be completed within 10 days.

You may notice some variations in your broadband speed and this is normal. We are aiming to give you the best quality experience. Please leave your router on during this time.

Check back here to confirm the maximum speeds supported by your connection.



stats......

Uptime: 0 days, 21:47:46

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.282 / 12.603

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 2,08 / 1,99

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,1 / 19,1

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17,3 / 34,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,3 / 2,6

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 16 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 299 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 313.534

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 242 / 139

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 92 / 0


So it will just keep doing this until sky manually set my profile higher.

sky llu
Standard User craggs
(committed) Wed 22-Apr-15 13:41:46
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
Ok so,DLM kicked in 4x and I decided to ring sky today as it keeps setting 2.6mb 3db line.

This time it's being looked into by the network team.

They said they have no idea why it keeps setting such a low profile on my line,,at christmas they set 11.2mb-1117mb

today they have gone to far setting 9mb.1117mb.I've asked them to higher it but they said it cannot be done,and they are going to try and get this high cap of my account of 2.6mb that DLM keeps setting.

I've no idea why but ping has gone up and HD iplayer is buffering since this profile.

If it wasnt for the fact sky are giving me free landline for 12 months I'd be of to someone else.

sky llu
Standard User Sceptic
(experienced) Wed 22-Apr-15 17:50:05
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
Will they switch you to sky pro where you can get the DLM switched off and select your own profile.
For the time I was with sky DLM was never active on my line.
Standard User craggs
(committed) Wed 22-Apr-15 23:59:21
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: Sceptic] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Sceptic:
Will they switch you to sky pro where you can get the DLM switched off and select your own profile.
For the time I was with sky DLM was never active on my line.


Did not know about this,thanks will speak to them about this.

Anyway did a reoot og the router and got a better speed,but internet has been really slow,and iplayer buffering all night

think my profile is to low on downstream,do you think it's the CRC errors causing the slow internet

Uptime: 0 days, 2:02:56

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.117 / 10.235

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 467,21 / 1,99

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,1 / 18,9

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17,4 / 34,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,9 / 2,6

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 13 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 181 / 35.321.237

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 23

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 452

sky llu
Standard User Sceptic
(experienced) Thu 23-Apr-15 02:03:24
Print Post

Re: Sky's DLM keeps setting an unstable 3db profile


[re: craggs] [link to this post]
 
The CRC errors seem reasonable but if it's not a reporting error the 35 million FEC errors in a couple of hours might slow it up a bit.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to