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Standard User Spinstorm
(committed) Sun 25-Dec-16 23:31:23
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Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


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Has anyone turned off DHCP on the Q router and used a second router/wifi point for DHCP?

I have purchased Google Wifi from Amazon.com which sets up a mesh network (which is far superior to the Sky Q system) but I can't use it in bridge mode if I want to use the mesh network.

I can see I can turn off DHCP in the Q settings and I can get the wifi point to provide the IP addresses but I am wondering if the 2 mini boxes, silver and booster will stop working as the sky router isn't supplying the IP addresses? Does anyone know?

(If I allow the Q router to run as DHCP server then I can only use one Google Wifi base station and not use mesh as it will be in bridge mode; which also removed the advanced software functions that it can do through the app which is not what I want.)
Standard User simon194
(experienced) Mon 26-Dec-16 08:15:40
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
I have DHCP/OpenVPN/DNS running on a Raspberry Pi so have it switched off on the hub with no problems. You may occasionally get an error message that the Q hub isn't providing an IP address when the main box boots up but it can be ignored.

Another thing to remember is only the main box can be connected to the Google router and only using the 2.4 GHz band and any minis have to connect to the man box.

The AirTies system that is used by Sky Q is actually a well proven technology used by several large companies for their own "mesh" products and the Google product actually uses exactly the same approach.
Standard User Spinstorm
(committed) Mon 26-Dec-16 14:56:36
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
Why is it that Sky Q requires 5 boxes to cover my house and Google can do it with 2? (although until I try this I am just speculating based on what I've read!).

So will the mini boxes still work and TV signal won't be an issue? I am planning on leaving wifi turned on with the Sky router just using Google to supply IPs.


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Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 26-Dec-16 22:35:42
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
What makes you think the google boxes can do it in two?

Generally speaking most routers supplied by ISPs are at the legal maximum output power for wifi in the UK so changing devices will only give a marginal increase in signal. Things such as antennas being different positions or an extra few antennas may make a slight difference.

If you look at a device such as BTs smarthub it already has 7 internal antennas, broadcasts at the maximum output level and has MIMO. Here changing to most routers on the market below £200 will either give the same wireless range or what we commonly see is the third party device has worse range.

Usually the solution is multiple APs.

Are you comparing 5ghz from sky q with 2.4ghz perhaps?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 26-Dec-16 22:40:45)

Standard User Spinstorm
(committed) Wed 28-Dec-16 20:44:27
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I do not know what black magic Google wifi (GW) uses however I can tell you that using 2 GW points the entire house is now blanketed in wifi (and so is the front of the house; 20 metres down the street I'm still getting 7Mbits on a Speedtest).

My connection is 17Mbits fibre through Sky (due to the distance to the cabinet). With the Sky boxes in exactly the same position they couldn't compete with range. I have seen similar download speeds but superior uploads off the GWF that are double the Sky boxes.

I am very impressed! I purchased two 3 packs and I only used 2 GW points so I will see if it performs the same at my flat I use in the week for work.

In answer to the double NAT/DHCP concerns I had it isn't an issue as the IP range GWF gives doesn't conflict with the Sky router IP addresses so I didn't have to do anything to get it working.

I strongly recommend it though and the app is great too!
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 28-Dec-16 23:10:16
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
How do you have google WiFi?
It is not sold in the U.K as far as I can tell?

It sounds as though you somehow got your hands on the American version?

If you are using an American Google WiFi device in the UK please note the device is likely in breach of the allowed transmission power (EIRP) in the UK. Transmit power on 2.4Ghz is 100mW in the UK, whereas in the US it is 1000mW. This would explain the sudden miraculous improvement in your wireless reception.

The challenge with using equipment this powerful is that it can cause excess interference for all devices which are operating nearby at the UK limit.

At 5Ghz, in the US higher channels are allowed e.g. Channel 161, in the UK you can only legally use band A and B channels by default... anything over channel 140 needs to be licensed. A US router will default to channels not legally ok to just use in the UK, and what is worst it will potentially broadcast on these channels at an output power not legally allowed either.

You risk interfering with RADAR systems in the UK which is why UK wifi devices have DFS built right in. Also some wireless cards which have European drivers are programmed to only look at the UK channels, with time you may find some devices do not even see your wireless network which could be a headache.

My advice if you are using a US device is to try and get your money back and return it in the returns period.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 28-Dec-16 23:11:27)

Standard User Spinstorm
(committed) Wed 28-Dec-16 23:19:36
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
You can buy it from Amazon.com and they ship to the UK. Thanks for the information I didn't know that.

I can't fault how easy it was to set up and how well it works.

And the fact that they did the IP range outside of standard means no double nat issues.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 29-Dec-16 21:32:18
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
If you are using an American Google WiFi device in the UK please note the device is likely in breach of the allowed transmission power (EIRP) in the UK. Transmit power on 2.4Ghz is 100mW in the UK, whereas in the US it is 1000mW. This would explain the sudden miraculous improvement in your wireless reception.

The challenge with using equipment this powerful is that it can cause excess interference for all devices which are operating nearby at the UK limit.

At 5Ghz, in the US higher channels are allowed e.g. Channel 161, in the UK you can only legally use band A and B channels by default... anything over channel 140 needs to be licensed. A US router will default to channels not legally ok to just use in the UK, and what is worst it will potentially broadcast on these channels at an output power not legally allowed either.
Can you offer any proof that this is indeed happening, or is it just something you have made up?
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 29-Dec-16 22:47:32
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Google haven't yet produced documents online related to their output power so it's hard to say for definite (at least I don't see them). There should be something somewhere I just need to locate.

Generally speaking plenty of US APs will output around 200mW whereas ones sold in the UK will be 100 due to the limits set here.

The allowed channels in each market can be easily found on Wikipedia as can the output powers allowed.

As one example at 2.4Ghz a device sold in the UK may use channels 12 and 13 which are not allowed in the US. Likewise in the UK we cannot use channel 14 like some countries.

I doubt that the op would be able to go from 5 APs down to 2 APs unless the output power is higher, especially considering the size of these Google wifi devices and the fact the op has fairly recent hardware.

If you take a device sold in the UK by a retailer such as currys you will not be able to select channel 161 at 5Ghz unless you manually change the region to the United States. Certainly the coverage is significantly better when you do this.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 29-Dec-16 22:53:03
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Re: Turn off DHCP on Q Router and use wifi point for it?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I had a quick look at my EEROs in the light of your concerns and I see no indication that they are using anything other than standard UK settings. I believe your fears are overstated.
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