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Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Wed 11-Jul-18 09:23:01
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Slow Single Thread Speed


[link to this post]
 
Hi all,

Anyone else have single thread speed problems? Have just joined Sky from BT and am only getting just over half of what I should be. No such problems while on BT. Any ideas on what's going on?

Connection Speed 39994 kbps 9995 kbps
Line Attenuation 17.1 dB 18.0 dB
Noise Margin 12.0 dB 12.12 dB

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by _Resonance_ (Wed 11-Jul-18 09:25:17)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 11-Jul-18 21:42:44
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
What product were BT providing ? Looks like Sky have you on a 40 meg service.

Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Wed 11-Jul-18 21:47:06
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply. It was 80/20 Infinity 2, but I was syncing at about 67/20. Sky is 40/10 service.

Edited by _Resonance_ (Wed 11-Jul-18 21:48:45)


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 11-Jul-18 22:01:27
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
So that looks kinda OK, sync rate wise ...

a bit surprised you didnít get pretty much full sync on a short line like yours .....

are you connected in the NTE and filtered properly ?

Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Wed 11-Jul-18 22:22:46
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Iím connected to a filtered faceplate. The type that were installed when FTTC first came out.

I did get full sync on the BT 80Mmb service when first installed, but that slowly went downhill over the years. I assume because of crosstalk?

The Sky fibre is connecting at full speed though (or near as damn it), just canít understand why the single thread speed is so bad on speed tests? As I say no such problem existed when I was on BT a few days ago.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Jul-18 05:27:34
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
If you have the Sky Q hub, depending on your setup this might be entirely by design. The Sky Q Mesh network does not always provide a device full speed single thread unless absolutely required where there are other devices connected. If you fire up a 4K stream, that needs 30Mbps, you'll see it releases the speed. Sky Q works well when you don't focus on all the details, since the Sky Q Airties setup is quite complex.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Thu 12-Jul-18 05:31:44
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply ukhardy. It is a Sky Q Hub, but donít have Sky Q for TV (still on 1Tb Sky HD box), so no mesh network.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-Jul-18 09:48:25
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
Is the test over WiFi? If so you really should check with a cabled Ethernet connection to ensure the WiFi isn't impacting on the results.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Thu 12-Jul-18 09:53:17
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply Ian. That particular test was over Ethernet. Tbh the difference between WiFi and Ethernet is negligible. Small house, good WiFi signal everywhere.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-Jul-18 10:04:49
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
OK, that rules out WiFi - WiFi can be an inhibitor so good to rule out - it also would rule out the mesh theory anyway as you weren't using WiFi and the mention of mesh was the reason I asked.

It does look like congestion somewhere, probably in the Sky network.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Thu 12-Jul-18 10:09:03
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Yes, donít think itís a problem at my end. I did think it might be congestion, but then Iíve done speed tests in the early hours and the problem is still there. Bit of a weird one.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-Jul-18 10:19:12
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried downloading the test files from the TBB site? Download one of the large files and see if the download rate is consistent.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Jul-18 12:56:18
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
I am 99.9% it is the Airties mesh system, on the 76 meg you see around 50 to 55 single thread and 38mbps 20 to 25. I would bet my life using your own router "resolved" it - although it is not really an issue. It's similar to QOS, the whole principle designed by airties is no one client can consume all the bandwidth thereby negatively impacting other users, with exceptions where it is entirely necessary eg a video stream at 35Mbps.

The airties setup is not entirely disabled just because you have no sky tv.

The more connected the more "managed" things become.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 12-Jul-18 13:55:33)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-Jul-18 13:50:23
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Surely though that would be related to wireless throughput and not wired?
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Jul-18 13:55:21
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
It is managed based on the sync speed, AFAIK. You would not want one client to saturate the full line speed as that could impact the ability to stream on another client. Also, where you are fully saturating a line, it can impact pings for online gaming etc. Each client is managed in a way that it can do what it requires, without impacting other users too much.

When I had Sky Q my single thread was capped, switching to my own router it was "normal."

Call it what it is, a fancy QOS which manages everything.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 12-Jul-18 13:56:03)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-Jul-18 14:01:07
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Well, that would stop me from going with Sky then. If it is going to throttle endpoints then I want the option to control it - I could sort of understand it on a wireless mesh but not on a wired connection.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Jul-18 14:07:20
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Agreed an on / off would be nice. Most users don't notice given the multi threaded isn't impacted. It's the typical for 95% of users vs 5%, for the 95% being able to download 4K movies on the sky box, game and stream all at once with minimal impact is a better experience than the sky download slowing everything down.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 08:02:56
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Hi Ian.

Just tried a test file. Hovering around 3MB (slightly less most of the time), so about 24Mb. Similar to the single thread speed test,

Edited by _Resonance_ (Sat 14-Jul-18 08:05:52)

Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 08:37:23
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Agreed an on / off would be nice. Most users don't notice given the multi threaded isn't impacted. It's the typical for 95% of users vs 5%, for the 95% being able to download 4K movies on the sky box, game and stream all at once with minimal impact is a better experience than the sky download slowing everything down.


The problem I had last night was some of my bandwidth was presumably being reserved for elsewhere and I didn't have enough for my PC. I was updating my sat nav (plugged into PC), which resulted in my hardly being able to browse the net. With pages taking 20 seconds to load. It's a weird system.

Anyone know if there's a cooling off period for Sky Fibre and how long it is?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 14-Jul-18 09:24:24
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
If you saturate your connection then other bursty activity like web browsing is going to be impacted.

This sat nav download does not sound like a Sky imposed problem, but a self made one

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 10:43:54
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well maybe, except half my bandwidth appears to be being reserved on the off chance that another device might need it.

Edited by _Resonance_ (Sat 14-Jul-18 10:48:59)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 14-Jul-18 12:31:46
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
If this was a standard feature of the Sky FTTC service it would show up clearly in one of monthly roundups, i.e. single thread speeds would be significantly different to the other providers.

More investigation needed to say that Sky hardware is reserving bandwidth, QoS controls generally do not work like this, i.e. running QoS will reduce the top speeds a little but not by the margin you are seeing.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 13:52:35
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes true and I imagine more people would be complaining on here or other forums. Iíll have to contact Sky I guess, but getting them to understand the problem, let alone do anything will prove difficult. Might just be less stress to cancel and go elsewhere. Looking online you have 30 days from your connection going live.

Edited by _Resonance_ (Sat 14-Jul-18 16:27:22)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Jul-18 15:54:56
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
That does sound more like congestion, or bad WiFi connectivity or a faulty router.

The whole system is designed to avoid the issue just discussed.

It used to be 8 days from install but last time I checked was start of the 2017. You don't get back any install fees AFAIK.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 16:24:54
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Definitely not a WiFi problem, as that test and several others I've done are over Ethernet. I'd go with congestion as well, if not for the fact that the problem exists in the early hours. That leaves the router I guess. I'll give Sky a ring and see what they say.
Standard User DoomWolf
(regular) Mon 16-Jul-18 10:13:05
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
Maybe ask if they can supply one of the older Sky Hub 2 routers. They work fine on FTTC, mine holds sync fine at 80Mbit. The downside is that the wifi isn't as good as the Q router, but they do have 4 ethernet ports (albeit only 10/100 speed) and no built-in QoS.

Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Mon 16-Jul-18 11:42:21
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: DoomWolf] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DoomWolf:
Maybe ask if they can supply one of the older Sky Hub 2 routers. They work fine on FTTC, mine holds sync fine at 80Mbit. The downside is that the wifi isn't as good as the Q router, but they do have 4 ethernet ports (albeit only 10/100 speed) and no built-in QoS.


Just got off the phone to them before reading your message. They are sending a new Sky Q Hub to see if that fixes the problem. Thanks for the reply anyway.

I've been doing a bit more testing myself. I turned WiFi off in the hub config pages so there was nothing connected to it except my PC over Ethernet. Problem was still there. So it's not like it's reserving bandwidth for other devices and causing issues that way.

Fingers crossed it's just a dodgy hub and the replacement fixes it.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Tue 17-Jul-18 13:15:52
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
Arrrrg! New hub, same problem. Just my PC connected.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by _Resonance_ (Tue 17-Jul-18 13:21:45)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 18-Jul-18 05:38:41
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
sending the same type of hardware was unlikely to solve the problem.

I dont think its congestion.

Flick through the router UI, if you see anything like QoS or deep packet inspection firewall, turn them off and try again.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Wed 18-Jul-18 06:06:03
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Hi Chrysalis, thanks for the reply. I'd already been through the settings to see if there was anything obvious that could be causing problems, but nothing I can see.

Surely though, if it was a hub (settings) problem then this forum would be full of people complaining?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 18-Jul-18 09:51:12
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
The Sky Q hub is still a relatively rare beast, but nothing in the speed test suggests a wide spread issue on this, unless other providers have similar issues.

Most ISP just ignore single thread testing unless you can show it is impacting on a particular service e.g. Sky 4K on demand over IP is not working when multi thread speeds say it should

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Jul-18 10:26:45
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I had a quick browse on the Sky User Forum and can't see anything obvious on there and if it was a widespread issue with the router you would expect to see it there.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 18-Jul-18 16:08:20
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
I expect most of sky's userbase is not that internet literate, single threaded speeds in excess of 20mbit/sec is not going to break any mainstream services I am aware off and hence a lack of possible complaints.

It could be a few things causing this but as usual trying to diagnose remote on a forum with no access to the equipment is very difficult.

All we have to go on is this.

The problem did not exist on the old ISP
It exists regardless of time of day.
Swapping like for like hardware didnt work to fix it.

If you have e.g. RWIN issues and your latency is higher on sky, then you could be RTT bottlenecked. Do you have a/v software active when running tests, there is things to try, just I am lacking motivation to go through all possibilities.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Wed 18-Jul-18 20:39:53
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Hi Chrysalis, Many thanks for the reply and suggestion about a/v.

I only have windows defender and Malwarebytes on the machine. Disabling both didn't make any difference unfortunately.

Latency is about the same. I just pinged bbc.co.uk and it was 21ms.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Jul-18 23:24:42
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sky 4K on demand would work, if you analyse traffic flow the single thread speed increases where required for activities e.g. streaming.

It is very noticeable on 4K / 8K YouTube video streams on the advanced stats, where the connection speed initially shows around 20Mbps and as the video plays suddenly it bounces right up every-time as the system kicks in.

All I am able to comment is I had Sky at 2 different properties, in different areas, on different exchanges, on the Q hub my single thread behaved this way. On a netgear D6400 single thread was full speeds.

There is talk of this on Sky Forums, not commonly covered but I have reviewed stuff there previously. On 80Mbps it is around 55 to 60Mbps single thread.

It is by design and in reality has limited notable impact. I would argue it improves the overall experience for the majority where multiple activities can perform simultaneously with very little impact on one another.
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Thu 19-Jul-18 10:41:03
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Hi ukhardy07, thanks for the reply. Just seems a strange system to me, because it means if I want to download a file, the max it runs at is 3MB (usually less), about 24Mb. I obviously want things to download as fast as possible. This even happens if there is only one device (my PC) connected to the hub.

You don't happen to remember where to find the advanced stats you mentioned do you? Have looked in the hubs config pages (192.168.0.1) and can't see anything related to the speed of internet traffic.

Thanks in advance.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-Jul-18 10:54:17
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
I think you'll find the advanced stats referred to are on the video streaming service rather than on the router (but I could be mistaken).
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Thu 26-Jul-18 17:26:27
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Re: Slow Single Thread Speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Ah, thanks Ian, that would explain it.

Well, the issue has now been passed to the Sky network team. Customer Service's thinking is it's a network problem after going through all the usual tests with me. I'll update here if there's any progress.
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