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Standard User Fido
(committed) Sun 02-Dec-18 23:07:35
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Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


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I am on Sky Fibre via and Openreach Connection with a connection capped at 40 Mbps. (They tell me that they are soon to double it for free but I am not sure that will make a lot of difference if they are reducing the SNR on my line).

A few weeks ago I gave up on the Sky Q Router due to the poor WIFI performance, (the connection was always rock solid), and I bought a TP Link AC2800, (which is IMHO a great router).

At first the AC2800 have a similar SNR to the Sky Q route, (SNR up about 8 and SNR down about 15),and the sync speed with the AC2800 was slightly higher at around 37.5 Mbps, the latency was about 25m/s. and it stayed that way for the last 16 days. (As I understand it the AC2800 uses a Broadcom Chipset).

The AC2800 worked so well that I could use my TP-Link Homeplugs to keep the Sky Q boxes on ethernet and do away with the unsightly, (White), Sky Q WIFI Booster in the hall - Happy days.

Today we noticed that the Sky Q Mini Box in the bedroom was intermittently losing the network connection and the centre light on the TP Link homeplug near to it was intermittently red.


Checking the AC2800 Router Stats I can see that it had been connected for almost 17 days and I also noticed that the UP SNR had dropped to 3 and the DOWN SNR had dropped to 6. - The sync speed had also lowered to 36 Mbps, the latency is over 50m/s and errors are starting to appear.

The WIFI on the AC2800 is still really good.

The AC2800 was very easy to set up with Sky Fibre and it worked much better that the Sky Q Router: I used the Sky Q Router details to set up the AC2800 since I already had them because I had used Wireshark to get them a few years ago but I have read that may no longer be necessary.

I have read, on a few threads, that Sky now allow people to use their own routers: is that the case?

If Sky do allow customers to use their own routers why then drop the SNR down to levels that can potentially cause issues, (ie.less than 6).

Is this something sky do when you use your own router ?

If I have a go at Sky about the loss in SNR are they likely to just say that I should not use third party routers ?

Sky Fibre
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 03-Dec-18 09:04:47
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: Fido] [link to this post]
 
For FTTC services control of the SNR target margin is in the hands of Openreach, so Sky cannot change the SNR

More likely things have changed over time, i.e. the Openreach DLM system has reacted to the different hardware which may be causing different error rates than the Sky Q router

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Fido
(committed) Mon 03-Dec-18 10:33:39
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
For FTTC services control of the SNR target margin is in the hands of Openreach, so Sky cannot change the SNR

More likely things have changed over time, i.e. the Openreach DLM system has reacted to the different hardware which may be causing different error rates than the Sky Q router


Hello Mr Saffron,


Thank you for your reply.


The AC2800 is much faster and better than the Sky Q Router in all ways which meant that the error rate was much lower so it could be that the Openreach DLM kicked in to mess it up and create equal shares of [censored] connection for all in the local area; I do not know but I do know the line stats and SNR are lower and that the connection is much less snappy than it was when I first changed routers.

It probably is down to Openreach but part of the problem is that with a Sky Fibre line a person needs to persuade Sky Customer support to get Openreach to deal with any issues and usually all that they would be interested in would be the minimum speed which is presently 32Mbps..

Also, (as far as I know), the Openreach connection is just for the parts between me and the exchange and once it gets to the exchange Sky Staff take over from Openreach and the connection is then under the control of Sky but either way we need to contact Sky Customer Support to attent to any issues and we need to know if our using our own router would be and issue. (The Sky Q Router used to get a lot of errors: for the first week we had almost zero errors with the AC2800 and after they lowered the SNR it shows error pkts of 755 upstream and 736 downstream and the line attenuation is higher. - It never drops connection).

This morning the SNR has slightly increased slightly to UP 3.6 and DOWN 9.6.

We could try to reboot the AC2800 Router to see what happens then but if someone faffs with it every few weeks or the DLM holds it back every few weeks that may not be helpful.


We could use the Sky Q Router at the front end as a modem and could use the AC2800 as a wireless access point by turning off DCHP in one of the routers but that gives a messy set up and if the DCHP on the AC2800 is turned off that somewat negates the benefit of having a router with a much faster processor.

Conversly; if I was to use the Sky Q Router as a modem and I switched off the DCHP on the Sky Q Router and left the DCHP operational on the AC2800 I am not sure if that would work but I could set different IP ranges for both routers but it would still be a messy set up and we would prefer to just stick with the AC2800 since its performance is really good.

At the present time I cannot remember if I spoofed the inetrnal MAC address of the Sky Q Router when I set up the AC2800 and I do not know if that would make any difference,

I am not sure what to do.

Sky Fibre

Edited by Fido (Mon 03-Dec-18 10:38:40)


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Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 03-Dec-18 12:10:26
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: Fido] [link to this post]
 
The VR2800 is a great router for both wifi (its a 4x4 stream router) and for the modem component as it uses the latest (or newish) Broadcom chipset. Its on a par with other high end modem/routers such as the Billion 8900AX, Netgear D7800 and Asus DSL-AC88U so a bit surprised to hear its giving you issues. I presume your VR2800 is using the latest firmware? If not, I suggest you do this ASAP. Otherwise try the following:

* Do a factory reset on the VR2800 and unplug it at the mains.

* Wait for 30 mins before switching it back on (very important to wait otherwise the DLM could mistake this for an unstable line and make it worse)

* Reconfigure the router from scratch

* Leave it plugged in undisturbed for at least a week and see how it performs.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 03-Dec-18 12:22:02)

Standard User Fido
(committed) Mon 03-Dec-18 13:12:29
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
The VR2800 is a great router for both wifi (its a 4x4 stream router) and for the modem component as it uses the latest (or newish) Broadcom chipset. Its on a par with other high end modem/routers such as the Billion 8900AX, Netgear D7800 and Asus DSL-AC88U so a bit surprised to hear its giving you issues. I presume your VR2800 is using the latest firmware? If not, I suggest you do this ASAP. Otherwise try the following:

* Do a factory reset on the VR2800 and unplug it at the mains.

* Wait for 30 mins before switching it back on (very important to wait otherwise the DLM could mistake this for an unstable line and make it worse)

* Reconfigure the router from scratch

* Leave it plugged in undisturbed for at least a week and see how it performs.



I agree that the AC2800 is a great router. - I do not believe that the issues have anything to do with the AC2800 and that it could be Openreach or sky.

My Ac2800 does have the latest firmware. Installed.


That said, I will be following your advice regarding a factory reset as I do suspect that a reboot and a change of IP address may cure the issues for now; (well at least for at least another week or so).

It has now been connected for almost 17 days and for over the first week or so it retained similar SNR etc. line stats to the Sky Q Router, with low latency, a snappier connection and a higher sinc speed, (probably due to the modem quality and the Broadcom chipset), with virtually no errors reported.

A few days ago the IP address changed and the SNR values changed and things deteriorated from there so my suspicion is that it is the provision from the cabinet/exchange that is at fault.

I indicated in an earlier post in the thread that I suspect that a router reboot will probably cure the issues for at least another week but I am reluctant to reboot more often than every two weeks due to the tendedncy of the DLM to drop the speed when resets are carried out less than 10 days apart.

Sky Fibre
Standard User Fido
(committed) Tue 04-Dec-18 12:45:50
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: Fido] [link to this post]
 
As advised; I reset and reconnected the router; it did cure the issues for now and the stats have improved.

According to the Thinkbroadband Speed Test, presently, the download speed if faster than usual 38.4 Mbps and the upload speed is slower 6 mbps and the latency is 35 ms

From the AC2800 the present line stats are;


DSL
Line Status:
DSL Up Time:
DSL Modulation Type:
Annex Type:

Upstream
Downstream
Current Rate (kbps)
6916
40000
Max Rate (kbps)
6916
57971
SNR Margin (dB)
6.1
14.7
Line Attenuation (dB)
42.3
18.6
Errors (pkts)
0
0

This is very similar to what happened when I first set the AC2800 up and that went on for at least a week and then it deteriorated after about 10 days/2 weeks. - Let's be optimistic that it would not happen again.

Let's be optimististic.

Sky Fibre
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 04-Dec-18 13:45:49
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: Fido] [link to this post]
 
Probably a burst of noise causing a resync and modems don't resync once the noise goes away, so you end up with the slower speeds until a human intervenes

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 05-Dec-18 16:31:11
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Re: Do Sky drop the SNR when you use your own router ?


[re: Fido] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Fido:
I have read, on a few threads, that Sky now allow people to use their own routers: is that the case?

Yes, the condition that Sky hardware must be connected to the phone line has been dropped from the T&C for fibre, bringing it into line with ADSL where the stipulation was removed years ago.

Oliver.
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