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Standard User sean_r
(member) Mon 26-Jul-10 15:37:46
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TT Stalking


[link to this post]
 
TalkTalk following users

Details at Phoenix Broadband
http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co...
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Mon 26-Jul-10 18:32:10
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sean_r:
TalkTalk following users


Or take the direct route - http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showthread.php...

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Mon 26-Jul-10 18:33:17)

Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 30-Jul-10 22:28:03
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
smile Jack I think you might find more real info at http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co... We have been investigating it since May this year. smile

Edited by Hatari (Fri 30-Jul-10 22:29:14)


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Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 10:42:23
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
smile Jack I think you might find more real info at http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co... We have been investigating it since May this year. smile


I have nothing to hide i really am not interested. wink
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 12:26:11
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
Hide is not the word I would use, that suggests guilt about something. I would suggest secure. Keeping private and confidential information secure is what it is all about.

Think about all the passwords and usernames you use. Accesses that you make to Banks and other sites that are private. Just think that something possibly just copied the URL with my session ID etc in it for my present access to this forum and then attempts to access the site using it as if they were me.

It is to protect us all that we have laws about privacy, interception and monitoring and in the opinion of a lot of very experienced people the Stalkstalk stalker is breaking those laws and may also be committing fraud.

Why should webmasters allow the Stalkstalk stalker to access their websites. It has failed to obey robots.txt, which excludes on it my forum and in other places, it uses bandwidth which costs money and by using secondhand URLs can cause problems to the website software. My sites have had over a 160 access/attempted access in a day from this Stalkstalk stalker.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 12:35:40
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Hide is not the word I would use, that suggests guilt about something. I would suggest secure. Keeping private and confidential information secure is what it is all about.


There is a lengthy thread on the subject in the TT forum, the problem is no one can "prove" that TT can do what you suggest or that they cannot, until someone has proof we will continue to go round in circles, i believe having read many posts in different forums they are testing a phorm like system but until someone from TT gives us more info its all conjecture .
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 13:57:44
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
There is a lengthy thread on the subject in the TT forum, the problem is no one can "prove" that TT can do what you suggest or that they cannot, until someone has proof we will continue to go round in circles, i believe having read many posts in different forums they are testing a phorm like system but until someone from TT gives us more info its all conjecture .


Well if you read the topic at http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co... you will find copy logs have been posted and I have even taken a URL to pieces to show what is the anonymous part and the part that makes it non-anonymous.

But you have not answered "Why should webmasters allow the Stalkstalk stalker to access their websites? It has failed to obey robots.txt, which excludes on it my forum and in other places, it uses bandwidth which costs money and by using secondhand URLs can cause problems to the website software. My sites have had over a 160 access/attempted access in a day from this Stalkstalk stalker." This is an important part of the equation.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 14:03:40
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
But you have not answered "Why should webmasters allow the Stalkstalk stalker to access their websites? I


The reason i havent answered is because i do not have an answer, I think jackies post from the TT thread sums it up.


I haven't contributed much to this thread because it was becoming personal with patronising references to un-informed people and many other snide remarks that lowered the tone of the discussion (as it was then), and also because the arguments (which it has now become) were getting repetitive.

From anyone reading the thread and getting to the actual crux of the matter, it appears there are 2 main questions that Jo Public will want to know (I do not refer to them as the herd or otherwise)... quite simply:

Is it legal?
Is it an invasion of privacy?

If outside organisations are now looking at this and investigating this as people have said, then this is now all conjecture. I say this because unless one is a lawyer and 100% sure of this (if you are a lawyer, and are 100% certain it is illegal, then just take them to court yourselves if you are so sure the outcome is going to be a definite success in your favour), it is conjecture, albeit well informed conjecture by some of the more experienced members.

Everyone keeps saying they will not be satisfied until an outside body/organisation gives their verdicts on the matter. If that's the case, then we should just wait for this conclusion.

This thread seems to be going nowhere now as the discussions seem to have become quite circular as Barney said. They are now just labouring points of which none have been proven yet (I hasten to add for both sides, TT and the consumer before people jump down my throat).

It just seems to be getting pointless as the majority if not all of the postees in this thread only want to see it from their viewpoint as is human nature, and nothing anyone says is going to change that view. In all the pages so far, no one has yet moved an inch.

This thread's purpose is in danger of becoming redundant, simply because no-one posting will be satisfied until someone independent in authority or Talk Talk prove that this is all above board, so I can see little point in going round in circles, "yes it's legal and not an invasion of privacy", "no it's not legal and it is an invasion of privacy" argument, as clearly it has become a circular repetitive argument, and not a discussion anymore, as non-one is going to change their mind until an official indpendent conclusion is reached or TT provide a statement on the matter that can be verified by outside legal bodies.

Personally, however, I do have faith in Blackeagle's analysis and comments, as he's one of the most knowledgable technical guys I know (sory BE, I'm sure you are also proficient in other things as well!), and on the other hand, I also have great respect for Zeus, as he is extremely knowledgable on privacy and legal issues and I prefer personally to follow their comments as I have always found them to be impersonal and unbiased in their posts in all the time I have spent on the forums. If they have had anything they are not happy with re TT, they have been very fair and straightforward about it and vice versa.

I for one will not be going back and forth, as I do not want to follow a trend of just keep saying the same things over and over again. I've said what I think, and it's basically that I will wait for an official conclusion, both internal and external.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 14:28:48
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
Well let me give you a website owner's answer. Remembering I have logs of the activity of the Stalkstalk stalker going back to May 2010, and have had conversations with Senior People at Stalkstalk and been exchanging emails since before I made this public.


1. All of my sites are Copyright; therefore, any crawler needs either my implied permission or specific permission to access my sites. The robots.txt files are written in a way that specifically allows specific crawlers to access my sites and bars the rest. That includes the Stalkstalk stalker, which does not identify itself as a crawler rather as a normal BB user. Thus, anything that the Stalkstalk stalker downloads from my sites is in breach of copyright.

2. My forum"Phoenix Broadband Advice Community" is a members only forum and closed to guests, although we have made the two topics on this subject available to guest because of the general importance of them. Therefore, any one or thing accessing the forum without permission is breaking the rules of the forum.

3. Very simply the cost of allowing the Stalkstalk stalker access. It cost money to supply the bandwidth that it uses. All the other crawlers give me something in return advertising, the Stalkstalk crawler give me nothing just take without a by your leave and cost me money for the bandwidth it has used.

4. I have the right to allow onto my sites those I chose. Stalkstalk were told in May 2010, and it has been repeated, that they were not to access my sites. They ignored that and continue to access/attempt to access my sites. I do not want them there, as I believe they breach the privacy of the visitors to my site and give nothing in return.

Maybe that will help you appreciate this is not as simple as some people think it is.

Edited by Hatari (Sat 31-Jul-10 14:34:15)

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 14:52:25
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Maybe that will help you appreciate this is not as simple as some people think it is.


If you are so sure they are up to something dodgey what steps have you taken to put a stop to it?


I think you need also to appreciate most customers will not get into a flap until there is concreter proof they are up to something dodgy, as Jackie said in the TT forum on the subject..

From anyone reading the thread and getting to the actual crux of the matter, it appears there are 2 main questions that Jo Public will want to know (I do not refer to them as the herd or otherwise)... quite simply:

Is it legal?
Is it an invasion of privacy?

If outside organisations are now looking at this and investigating this as people have said, then this is now all conjecture. I say this because unless one is a lawyer and 100% sure of this (if you are a lawyer, and are 100% certain it is illegal, then just take them to court yourselves if you are so sure the outcome is going to be a definite success in your favour), it is conjecture, albeit well informed conjecture by some of the more experienced members.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sat 31-Jul-10 14:55:02)

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 16:12:32
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
If you are so sure they are up to something dodgey what steps have you taken to put a stop to it?
Seems to me that they are up to something dodgy- deliberate and knowing infringement of copyright.

They've been told to stop (both electronically and by direct communication), and have ignored it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com

Edited by billford (Sat 31-Jul-10 16:48:36)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 17:28:14
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
They've been told to stop (both electronically and by direct communication), and have ignored it.


Bill can you say categorically they are breaking the law ?

I think they would have to be extremely stupid to carry if they are, the TT forum thread is there for all to see even non members.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 17:33:39
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Bill can you say categorically they are breaking the law ?
I'm not a copyright lawyer, so not familiar with what is criminal and what is civil law, but deliberate infringement of copyright is certainly an offence of some sort.

Perhaps you should talk to someone in the music industry, they're pretty familiar with copyright legislation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 17:51:21
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Bill can you say categorically they are breaking the law ?
I'm not a copyright lawyer, so not familiar with what is criminal and what is civil law, but deliberate infringement of copyright is certainly an offence of some sort.

Perhaps you should talk to someone in the music industry, they're pretty familiar with copyright legislation.



Bill I cannot believe a company as big as TT who have already got a reputation that stinks for their lack of customer support would be stupid enough to carry on what they are doing having already had it plastered across their own forum that their customers have noticed they are being monitored, they are now being refereed to in the forum as StalkStalk, i honestly believe they will have looked into the legal side of things before they started and that is why they carry on.

If it turns out i am wrong I will gladly eat my humble pie. grin

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sat 31-Jul-10 17:54:35)

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 17:54:15
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
i honestly believe they have will have looked into the legal side of things before they started and that is why they carry on.
So did BT with Phorm tongue
If it turns out i am wrong I will gladly eat my humble pie. grin
Can't say fairer than that smile

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 19:20:48
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Do we agree that the owner has the right to refuse access to any website.

This extract from a reply from CD email after Stalkstalk had been told to stop accessing my sites, I believe demonstrates their arrogant attitude to website owners "we refute your email and reserve our rights to check your site for the protection of our users. "

Stalkstalk have no rights to access anyone else’s site or mine

BTW
I cannot believe a company as big as TT
That is what they rely on people believing they are so big they could not/would not do such a thing.

Edited by Hatari (Sat 31-Jul-10 19:25:01)

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 19:40:29
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Do we agree that the owner has the right to refuse access to any website.
As I understand it, and I must re-emphasise that I am not a lawyer, you can allow or refuse access to your site to whoever you please and for whatever reason you please.

As can any website owner.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User tommy45
(experienced) Sat 31-Jul-10 19:54:09
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
MMM,i wonder what stalk stalk will do if a lot of popular web sites start to block their ip ranges for instance ,let's face it, it could happen "this site is a talk talk free zone"

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Jul-10 20:30:41
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Do we agree that the owner has the right to refuse access to any website.


I agree if you own the site you should have the right to block anyone if you so wish, I dont know the first thing about setting up a web site but assume you as the admin must have tolls to block entry to anyone you dont want to view it, if this is the case why do these tools not block TT ?

.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sat 31-Jul-10 20:31:31)

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 20:32:45
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
if this is the case why do these tools not block whatever TT ?
TT use dynamic IPs, blocking the whole range would exclude all TT customers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 21:56:07
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
If I use the normal tools to block someone from my sites, that stops them getting onto the actual site, but they still use bandwidth and leave a footprint.

They can and do change the IP addresses that they use so that means webmasters have to be vigilant and keep their eyes on the logs, time and major effort to keep the sites safe. As an example, they seem to have changed from Stalkstalk IPs to Huawei IPs. Where to next I do not know, but we will be vigilant.

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 22:06:20
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
I don't even know if this can be done, but afaik normal users don't read robots.txt.

A script to detect that file being read, if they're on a TalkTalk or Huawei IP then kick them off?


edit- forget that, too easy to get around frown

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com

Edited by billford (Sat 31-Jul-10 22:12:41)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 22:22:27
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Sounds nice and I wish it was that easy. The problem is identifying what they are doing and being sure it is not just a normal access from a Stalkstalk user.

Unless someone knows a better way it is check the logs for suspicious accesses.

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 22:25:34
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Any way you could use CAPTCHA for non-registered users?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 31-Jul-10 22:31:28
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Unregistered users cannot view the Community nor post.

We have made the Stalkstalk topics specially visible to guests because of the importance of the subject to all BB users and particularly Stalkstalk customers. To post they still have to register.

At the crawler level a CAPTCHA does not work. smile

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 31-Jul-10 22:38:08
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
At the crawler level a CAPTCHA does not work. smile
Pity frown

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Mon 02-Aug-10 11:21:19
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
I gather people have been asking for what are believed to be the specifics of law that Stalkstalk Talktalk broken. I have posted a detailed post on http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co... which could help people understand. Any comments will need to be posted on that topic so that we keep them all together.

Standard User Hatari
(member) Tue 03-Aug-10 15:49:56
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Two nice easy URLs to get you to what we know about the Talktalk stalking and monitoring http://stalkstalk.org.uk and http://stalkstalk.co.uk

Edited by Hatari (Tue 03-Aug-10 15:50:52)

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Aug-10 18:49:05
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Two nice easy URLs to get you to what we know about the Talktalk stalking and monitoring http://stalkstalk.org.uk and http://stalkstalk.co.uk


TT forums OCE Chris has posted this today.

Official statements are posted here and on the TalkTalk Blog. Specific answers to specific questions have been posted here when available also. Remember, this is a system for scanning URLs being tested at the moment. There will be further communications when the security and parental controls service is due to go live.

Regarding the way it was released into testing has been posted about serveral times in this thread

A number of statements on here, the blog and in the press have transparently given details of what is collected and what for. If people are still suspicious after that there's not a lot more that can be done I suppose.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Tue 03-Aug-10 21:46:30
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Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
Trouble is Chris has not told posted anything that was not in or implied in the email that I had from Dunstone 16 July. From logs I have, in my opinion, what is being said and what is happening do not appear to tie up.

BTW I do not blame Chris he has to do what he is told and can only give the information that he is given or told to give.

Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 07-Aug-10 10:22:07
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Just to keep the topic up to date I have now received a letter from TT's General Counsel Residential and posted it on the topic at Talktalk monitoring TT users. post 317

Standard User Hatari
(member) Wed 11-Aug-10 17:44:29
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately, Because it is difficult to track the Talktalk stalker accesses with guest visitors, we have taken the topic back into the members area.

All you need to read it and comment are a valid email address and username to register.

Latest major post Hatari's reply to Talktalk lawyer.

In addition, available the revised contract Hatari is using to charge TT for access

Talktalk monitoring TT users

ISP Representative TALKTALK_SUPPORT
(isp) Thu 12-Aug-10 13:53:43
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

We have obtained an offcial statement in respect to this issue which I have quoted below

We are developing some really exciting new security and parental control services, which will be based deep within our network infrastructure, to provide our customers with greater protection for all the devices they connect to their broadband line with. We’ve had considerable feedback from customers that PC-based software only deals with part of the wider security problem facing today's internet users, so we’ve developed these new services to help improve our customers online experience with us.

In preparation for the launch of these services, as our users surf the internet, details of websites visited are put into a list. Scanning engines then compare this list to a blacklist (sites that have been found to contain recent threats) and whitelist (sites that have been recently scanned with no threats found); if the site is not on either of these, it will visit the site and scan it for malicious code. Sites that are already on either list are not scanned again until the following day.

Our scanning engines receive no knowledge about which users visited what sites (e.g. telephone number, account number, IP address), nor do they store any data for us to cross-reference this back to our customers. We are not interested in who has visited which site - we are simply scanning a list of sites which our customers, as a whole internet community, have visited. What we are interested in is making the web a safer place for all our customers.

In due course we will be trialing and launching these services. We hope to be able to share more info on all of this soon.


Regards

M

TalkTalk, Online Community
www.talktalkmembers.co.uk/forums
"The information contained within these posts is provided by TalkTalk
to assist in the resolution of any queries our customers may have. Should you
have a specific request for information please do not hesitate to contact me."
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 13-Aug-10 07:56:54
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: TALKTALK_SUPPORT] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TALKTALK_SUPPORT:
In preparation for the launch of these services, as our users surf the internet, details of websites visited are put into a list. Scanning engines then compare this list to a blacklist (sites that have been found to contain recent threats) and whitelist (sites that have been recently scanned with no threats found); if the site is not on either of these, it will visit the site and scan it for malicious code. Sites that are already on either list are not scanned again until the following day.

Our scanning engines receive no knowledge about which users visited what sites (e.g. telephone number, account number, IP address), nor do they store any data for us to cross-reference this back to our customers. We are not interested in who has visited which site - we are simply scanning a list of sites which our customers, as a whole internet community, have visited. What we are interested in is making the web a safer place for all our customers.

In due course we will be trialing and launching these services. We hope to be able to share more info on all of this soon.



I don't know who M is but I believe that while this may be Stalkstalk's official statement it is not what has been happening in actuality. When accessing/attempting to access my websites the Talktalk stalker has been using full harvested URLs including session IDs, URLs carrying commands, has represented itself as the original User of the website, attempted to access Private areas of the website including Private Message boxes etc and fails to obey robots.txt although it frequently reads it and is downloading copyright material for commercial purposes without permission.

The story of Stalkstalk's accesses to my websites is including copies of emails and letters between Talktalk and myself is in the topic at http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co... to maintain the site's security if you are not a member you will need to register to read the thread, all you need to register is a valid email address and username.

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Aug-10 13:13:16
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Unfortunately, Because it is difficult to track the Talktalk stalker accesses with guest visitors, we have taken the topic back into the members area.


roughly translated " in a desperate attempt to get people to sign up for my website i have moved the only worthwhile topic back to the members area" .

UKonline... Premier LLU

Edited by woweebert (Fri 13-Aug-10 14:57:51)

Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 13-Aug-10 15:14:46
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woweebert:
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Unfortunately, Because it is difficult to track the Talktalk stalker accesses with guest visitors, we have taken the topic back into the members area.


roughly translated " in a desperate attempt to get people to sign up for my website i have moved the only worthwhile topic back to the members area" .

Edit: I wont join any forum the operates in this fashion , as what goes on behind the member login is normally a little Hitler set up where debate is not aloud . In fact i cant think of one single forum that operates like this that does not fit my earlier description .


I find the little Hitler reference insulting

As always whether you join anything is entirely up to you. As is whether you were accepted is up to us. The forum is run by a team who make the rare decision of the nature that I believe you allude to. The forum was always a closed one.

The topic is about my discovery of Talktalk's monitoring and the correspondence with Stalkstalk to resolve Stalkstalk's use of the sites. Unfortunately, the guests hid the Talktalk stalker accesses making it difficult to identify them, as we believe that the IPs it was using have been changed.

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Aug-10 15:30:40
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
I removed the little Hitler reference before your reply as i realised it was wrong and i apolagise for that .

But you cant escape the irony of a support forum that hides behind a members login .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 13-Aug-10 15:48:39
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woweebert:
I removed the little Hitler reference before your reply as i realised it was wrong and i apolagise for that .

But you cant escape the irony of a support forum that hides behind a members login .


Sorry I don't see the irony, beside the Forum we have a Support Website, see my signature for the URL, packed full of support information and articles which is aimed to help BB users support themselves, that being backed up by the forum where they can ask in privacy the questions that they feel they should know the answer to without the whole world looking over their shoulder.

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Aug-10 16:14:02
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Every single support item on your website links to the forum , the skeptic in me says the only reason you let the public have temporary access to your stalkstalk item was to latter with draw it in the hope more would sign to the closed forum .

Im not a back slapper or a bottom kisser and very much doubt another opinion that may differ from the people who run the site would be welcomed , hence the closed forum and the "As is whether you were accepted is up to us" mentality .

I despise closed forums and especially closed support forums , its all about control .

UKonline... Premier LLU

Edited by woweebert (Fri 13-Aug-10 16:15:28)

Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 13-Aug-10 16:38:01
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
Very simply we let the public have access because we felt that it was of public interest that we did. We then discovered after a few day it was very difficult to spot the Stalkstalk stalker accesses and the interest had died back, so we pulled it back inside.

lol I could not resist the "As is whether you were accepted is up to us" your comment asked for it lol I think the only time someone has been rejected as they registered were spammers who always seem to land on us whenever we have a public topic and they are rejected very quickly.

Do you really think that everyone on the internet should be allow totally free unrestricted access to all websites. Every website costs money to exist, so whenever you access a private site which mine are it costs the owner money to allow the you access. Now if the guests could be relied upon to click the few ads we have that might be a good reason to be open but they rarely do. So yes the access to the forum is controlled by a registration process. After that we exercise only the control required to keep the Forum a pleasant and helpful place to be. lol Just had a thought, one of the people I dislike the most on the net is a member. They registered and have obeyed the rules and are still a member and it will contine that way. Yes we are hot about swearing and the like, but that is part of making the place pleasant for all.

Have fun and enjoy yourself

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Aug-10 17:43:46
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Yes i do think that all information and advice with in a Support forum should be shared with the internet , thought that should of been obvious by now .

Hosting is not as expensive as it once was and even somebody on a modest wage could afford to run a relatively busy site , even in the UK hosting has now become affordable .

I have a VPS that could take a million hits a day that cost just shy of £10 a month

There is no reason not to have a private area for members but hiding your advice away seems counter productive if that advice is good .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 13-Aug-10 21:19:50
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woweebert:
Yes i do think that all information and advice with in a Support forum should be shared with the internet , thought that should of been obvious by now .

Hosting is not as expensive as it once was and even somebody on a modest wage could afford to run a relatively busy site , even in the UK hosting has now become affordable .

I have a VPS that could take a million hits a day that cost just shy of £10 a month

There is no reason not to have a private area for members but hiding your advice away seems counter productive if that advice is good .


Sorry, maybe you need to read the posts again. The advice is on the Website, which is open to all. Now after the Hitler insult, your trying to insult me by implying the advice is not good. So another insult.

Basically you feel, like Stalkstalk that you should be able to go anywhere you like on the Internet. Sorry not on my sites smile

You know for someone who grumbles on his profile "I got dyslexia , so i don't need you spell checking my posts and picking me up on my grammar". You don't half like trying to pick on someone and start an argument.

For your information I am dyslexic, but I use the tools I have to present things as well as possible.

Edited by Hatari (Fri 13-Aug-10 21:20:38)

Standard User BorgMaster
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Aug-10 23:13:54
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
From what I can see regarding you're correspondence as mentioned on your site you seem to be handling everything quite well (including the dyslexia), I'd just ignore people's posts whom are just trying to wind you up.

Just on a point of curiousity; I realise most of your arguments and discussions with talktalk relate to specific copyright material, but I am curious as to whether you've considered the implications of being on their network as a customer? Or is it because the sites are hosted elsewhere you have this complaint?

From what I can see overall you're fighting a fight that no one else has yet started (at least publicly) and as such I follow with great interested.

Thanks for your time in reading this and I look forward to a reply.

- Martin

BT Broadband

On Netgear DG834G

Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 13-Aug-10 23:46:19
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: BorgMaster] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BorgMaster:
From what I can see regarding you're correspondence as mentioned on your site you seem to be handling everything quite well (including the dyslexia), I'd just ignore people's posts whom are just trying to wind you up.

Just on a point of curiousity; I realise most of your arguments and discussions with talktalk relate to specific copyright material, but I am curious as to whether you've considered the implications of being on their network as a customer? Or is it because the sites are hosted elsewhere you have this complaint?

From what I can see overall you're fighting a fight that no one else has yet started (at least publicly) and as such I follow with great interested.

Thanks for your time in reading this and I look forward to a reply.

- Martin


Many thanks for your comments. I have a very good team around me that helps me, even one member who grammar checks everything that goes on the website, we work together. For the present matter others have come on board with specialist skills related to the stalking.

My websites are not on the Talktalk network, while I am also a Talktalk customer and do have evidence of the monitoring it is easier to tackle this from a website owner's point of view. The website are all copyright, with all rights reserved, thus for Talktalk to use them for commercial purposes before they can use them they need a licence from me, which they do not have. Thinking as I write it would not matter if my sites were on the Talktalk network, the same rules would apply. I am aware of other website owners who have taken the same stance that I have and several who have used the Contract/Conditions of Access that is available on the topic.

Coming back to the monitoring other people are tackling that and it is a much slower business.

Hope that helps

Standard User BorgMaster
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 14-Aug-10 08:43:31
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Do you, or anyone else for that matter, have any information regarding what sort of tricks their up to when 'stalking' the normal internet user on their network? I'd be happy to be referred to a link if applicable smile

Thanks

BT Broadband

On Netgear DG834G

Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 14-Aug-10 09:11:46
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: BorgMaster] [link to this post]
 
Sorry not sure what you mean or are after.

I think most of it is dealt with on the Phoenix topic.

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 14-Aug-10 17:04:06
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Sorry, maybe you need to read the posts again. The advice is on the Website, which is open to all. Now after the Hitler insult, your trying to insult me by implying the advice is not good. So another insult.

Basically you feel, like Stalkstalk that you should be able to go anywhere you like on the Internet. Sorry not on my sites smile

You know for someone who grumbles on his profile "I got dyslexia , so i don't need you spell checking my posts and picking me up on my grammar". You don't half like trying to pick on someone and start an argument.

For your information I am dyslexic, but I use the tools I have to present things as well as possible.

I apologised and edited the post before your reply removing the Little Hitler reference , it seem i was a little hasty in apologising and you have a problem with being able to except an apology .

I have just witnessed you reading into something that's not there , i hope your not using the same tactics whilst dealing with such a sensitive subject .
At no time have i implied your support is of a poor quality , what i said was " hiding your advice away seems counter productive if that advice is good " which to me says you should not be hiding good advice from the internet , quite how you read that as a insult is as i said " reading into something that's not there ".

OK so is it because i got dyslexia im not aloud to question the logic in a support forum that locks down its topics and hides them away from the internet .

It is about Control and you don't want to lose it .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Aug-10 17:15:22
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
It is about Control and you don't want to lose it .


We all know he has an ulterior motive, lets stop adding to the thread and it will eventually drop off the page, either that of the clique will carry on bumping it and look pathetic. wink
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 14-Aug-10 18:39:38
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woweebert:
In reply to a post by Hatari:
Sorry, maybe you need to read the posts again. The advice is on the Website, which is open to all. Now after the Hitler insult, your trying to insult me by implying the advice is not good. So another insult.

Basically you feel, like Stalkstalk that you should be able to go anywhere you like on the Internet. Sorry not on my sites smile

You know for someone who grumbles on his profile "I got dyslexia , so i don't need you spell checking my posts and picking me up on my grammar". You don't half like trying to pick on someone and start an argument.

For your information I am dyslexic, but I use the tools I have to present things as well as possible.

I apologised and edited the post before your reply removing the Little Hitler reference , it seem i was a little hasty in apologising and you have a problem with being able to except an apology .

I have just witnessed you reading into something that's not there , i hope your not using the same tactics whilst dealing with such a sensitive subject .
At no time have i implied your support is of a poor quality , what i said was " hiding your advice away seems counter productive if that advice is good " which to me says you should not be hiding good advice from the internet , quite how you read that as a insult is as i said " reading into something that's not there ".

OK so is it because i got dyslexia im not aloud to question the logic in a support forum that locks down its topics and hides them away from the internet .

It is about Control and you don't want to lose it .


On most forums your posts would be referred to as spam or off topic. The topic subject is Talktalk's monitoring and stalking of its customer to websites they have visited. For someone who has been a members for seven years plus I would not have expected that sort of behaviour from you. But then I get the distict impression that you feel no rules apply to you.

BTW I have just visited your homepage http://www.zubzubzing.net/ all I get is a blank page with default page in one corner, is this what you have on your VPS.

No don't bother to answer I am not really interested

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Aug-10 18:48:11
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
No don't bother to answer I am not really interested


If that is the case why ask?

I think your bridge is missing you. wink
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 14-Aug-10 21:06:53
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
No don't bother to answer I am not really interested


If that is the case why ask?

I think your bridge is missing you. wink


laugh The team cope very well without me

Just a thought Jack got your hat ready to eat. laugh

Standard User tgv
(member) Sun 15-Aug-10 09:13:35
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: TALKTALK_SUPPORT] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TALKTALK_SUPPORT:
Hi,

We have obtained an offcial statement in respect to this issue which I have quoted below

We are developing some really exciting new security and parental control services, which will be based deep within our network infrastructure, to provide our customers with greater protection for all the devices they connect to their broadband line with. ......

In preparation for the launch of these services, as our users surf the internet, details of websites visited are put into a list. Scanning engines then compare this list to a blacklist (sites that have been found to contain recent threats) and whitelist (sites that have been recently scanned with no threats found); if the site is not on either of these, it will visit the site and scan it for malicious code. Sites that are already on either list are not scanned again until the following day.


Regards

M


Am I the only person not quite sure what TT is attempting. Is it their intention to block access to black listed sites? What criteria do they use to specify the black list? Is TT about to become Bg Brother?
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Aug-10 09:59:06
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking *DELETED*


[re: tgv] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Jack_Hackett
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Aug-10 10:00:18
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
No don't bother to answer I am not really interested


If that is the case why ask?

I think your bridge is missing you. wink


laugh The team cope very well without me

Just a thought Jack got your hat ready to eat. laugh



You memory has let you down it was a pie and yes i still have it, i also have several boxes of wet wipes I will send to you and the rest of the clique when you need to remove the egg from your faces. grin
Standard User Podzak
(newbie) Mon 16-Aug-10 11:13:50
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
This is a totally duff post.
Why open a post with nothing written in it and supply a link that does not work?
Whatever your problem is, I think you deserve it. tongue
Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-Aug-10 15:38:53
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
What are you going on about ? i have not broken any rules . well i have not broken any rules on this forum , maybe if i was posting on your forum i would of broken multiple rules and the really big one that's" not agreeing with the owner" .

Questioning the fact you have pulled the thread from public view and that would be the StalkStalk thread, is on topic and all the time the thread is hidden from public view , im staying on topic . And all the time your using said thread to drum up registrations for your forum , your the one more closely fitting the description of spam .

I would like the thread to return to a source of information but in the same sentence feel its only right that somebody points out that something of such importance , should not be used for personal gain and should be in the public domain.

Which your never going to be happy with as it effects your control and you view it as yours , as you discovered the stalking but it effects over 4 million people and hiding it in your forum is not the place it needs to be .

So lets recap , its not spam it is on topic and i haven't broken any rules .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User sean_r
(member) Mon 16-Aug-10 16:19:04
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Podzak] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Podzak:
This is a totally duff post.
Why open a post with nothing written in it and supply a link that does not work?
Whatever your problem is, I think you deserve it. tongue


At the time of posting, that was a valid link.

As to with nothing written in it, you should've gone to specsavers.

TalkTalk following users
Details at phoenix broadband
(Supplied at the time with a valid link.)

You could have always registered and still can to read it.

As to the whatever my problem is, you tell me, as you seem to think that I have one.

Edited by sean_r (Mon 16-Aug-10 16:28:44)

Standard User Hatari
(member) Tue 17-Aug-10 00:59:23
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Podzak] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Podzak:
This is a totally duff post.
Why open a post with nothing written in it and supply a link that does not work?
Whatever your problem is, I think you deserve it. tongue


Link works perfectly smile

Standard User paul25
(newbie) Tue 17-Aug-10 07:45:51
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sean_r:
In reply to a post by Podzak:
This is a totally duff post.
Why open a post with nothing written in it and supply a link that does not work?
Whatever your problem is, I think you deserve it. tongue


At the time of posting, that was a valid link.

As to with nothing written in it, you should've gone to specsavers.

TalkTalk following users
Details at phoenix broadband
(Supplied at the time with a valid link.)

You could have always registered and still can to read it.

As to the whatever my problem is, you tell me, as you seem to think that I have one.

Well to put all minds at rest .Hatari is not a dictator .He has his views as you all have yours .May i also add being on his site all things that are done are decided by the team as H refers to them .I can say that on a few occasions he has gone with the majority vote. .To me that is not a dictator or aGod as he has been called that is a democracy .This is not about Phoenix broadband advice and how it is run but TALKTALK AND HOW THEY ARE OPERATING IS IT NOT .
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Aug-10 07:54:14
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
In reply to a post by Podzak:
This is a totally duff post.
Why open a post with nothing written in it and supply a link that does not work?
Whatever your problem is, I think you deserve it. tongue


Link works perfectly smile



but it's a bit like saying take a look at this great router for sale on eBay,
then posting a link to their default front page!

i was interested enough to read some of this Stalk Stuff while it was in the public domain, but not interested enough to want to post on those issues, so wasn't prepared to register.


To be fair to TT (and i hate their 'line-slamming' selling tactics), at least people can read about it openly in the previously posted link

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showthread.php...
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Aug-10 16:54:47
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
Well to put all minds at rest .Hatari is not a dictator .He has his views as you all have yours .May i also add being on his site all things that are done are decided by the team as H refers to them .I can say that on a few occasions he has gone with the majority vote. .To me that is not a dictator or aGod as he has been called that is a democracy .This is not about Phoenix broadband advice and how it is run but TALKTALK AND HOW THEY ARE OPERATING IS IT NOT .


Why do put a gap between the last word you type and the full stop ?
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Tue 17-Aug-10 19:13:28
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking *DELETED*


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by paul25

Edited by paul25 (Tue 17-Aug-10 19:20:03)

Standard User paul25
(newbie) Tue 17-Aug-10 19:22:54
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Well to put all minds at rest .Hatari is not a dictator .He has his views as you all have yours .May i also add being on his site all things that are done are decided by the team as H refers to them .I can say that on a few occasions he has gone with the majority vote. .To me that is not a dictator or aGod as he has been called that is a democracy .This is not about Phoenix broadband advice and how it is run but TALKTALK AND HOW THEY ARE OPERATING IS IT NOT .


Why do put a gap between the last word you type and the full stop ?


Because i can .LOL why do you miss the word you out of your question . LMAO
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Aug-10 19:48:38
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by paul25:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Well to put all minds at rest .Hatari is not a dictator .He has his views as you all have yours .May i also add being on his site all things that are done are decided by the team as H refers to them .I can say that on a few occasions he has gone with the majority vote. .To me that is not a dictator or aGod as he has been called that is a democracy .This is not about Phoenix broadband advice and how it is run but TALKTALK AND HOW THEY ARE OPERATING IS IT NOT .


Why do put a gap between the last word you type and the full stop ?


Because i can .LOL why do you miss the word you out of your question . LMAO


Because i made a mistake, you are doing it for a reason hence the question. tongue
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Wed 18-Aug-10 09:12:35
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
In reply to a post by paul25:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


Why do put a gap between the last word you type and the full stop ?


Because i can .LOL why do you miss the word you out of your question . LMAO


Because i made a mistake, you are doing it for a reason hence the question. tongue

cus i like to
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Aug-10 19:18:16
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
cus i like to


How strange. crazy
Standard User Idiotboy
(newbie) Thu 19-Aug-10 02:35:02
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
cus i like to


How strange. crazy


And you're trying to change the subject because...?

Edited by Idiotboy (Thu 19-Aug-10 02:36:36)

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Aug-10 05:25:20
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Idiotboy] [link to this post]
 
Threads dead ! the original post with link to leading story is borked , Well it is for a forum that encourages anonymous readers and poster and linking to a forum login has no place being here.

Thread should be locked

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Thu 19-Aug-10 11:03:12
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woweebert:
Threads dead ! the original post with link to leading story is borked , Well it is for a forum that encourages anonymous readers and poster and linking to a forum login has no place being here.

Thread should be locked

Well to put it back on topic Another reply from talktalk has been recieved on the said site .
So i think the thread is far from dead as some would like .But if you dont want to register that is your choice and rightly so .Thats what freedom is all about .
Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Aug-10 17:03:43
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
Would that be freedom of information ?

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Thu 19-Aug-10 18:03:59
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
NO have a read http://www.ico.gov.uk/home/what_we_cover/freedom_of_...
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Thu 19-Aug-10 18:53:39
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Idiotboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Idiotboy:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
cus i like to


How strange. crazy


And you're trying to change the subject because...?


Idiotboy I think your user-name suits you. tongue


.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Thu 19-Aug-10 18:55:41)

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Aug-10 20:14:35
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
Did not mention a act past by parliament , i asked if that was " freedom of information "

But i take your answear of NO ! as that was really the only answer that could be given under the circumstances .

And not the freedom im looking for .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Aug-10 20:16:15
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by paul25:
But if you dont want to register that is your choice and rightly so .


to maintain the site's security if you are not a member you will need to register to read the thread, all you need to register is a valid email address and username.

That makes about as much sense as TT's

We are developing some really exciting new security and parental control services

If the 'Stalker' is attempting access using Session IDs, then surely the readers would be safer reading the pages in the open forum, since not being members, there would be no requirement to login.
If you haven't got an account, then it can't be compromised lol


clearly moving it back into the closed forum is not to prevent the 'Stalker' since 'you' say you were aware of that back in May and only closed the forum when site traffic increased (raising suspicions that there might be other reasons).

If it was done to prevent TT receiving copies by other means, then that's nigh on impossible to achieve, i'm sure you'll agree..
Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Aug-10 20:26:18
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
Very eloquently put ..... nice to see others as unimpressed by this as i am

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Thu 19-Aug-10 20:59:00
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woweebert:
Very eloquently put ..... nice to see others as unimpressed by this as i am

No choice given on that they just did it till they were found out . Phoenix give you a choice sign up or dont . TT just did it FACT .COMPREHEND It is hard work with some folk .
No further comment as you have your views and i have mine Bye .

Edited by paul25 (Thu 19-Aug-10 21:01:10)

Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 07:58:59
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
Oh you poor woweebert lol

The link on the first post works perfectly OK.

The latest on the Talktalk monitoring topic are copies of emails from Talktalk's General Counsel Residential on the 19th August.and my reply.

Yep you do have to have a login and that is easy all you need is a valid email address and username.

Interesting that woweebert is unable to make the link in the first post work. Works perfectly well for me. Maybe he is not such a fountain of knowledge as he thinks he is.

user101's knowledge or lack of it shows, even guests have a session ID so from that aspect it is more secure behind a login.

For others a link at this end of the topic
http://www.the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co...

Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 20-Aug-10 08:57:23
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Oh you poor woweebert lol HUH????


First off, i should say that you had my support up until the point your forum became closed to public viewing
and let's not forget that this thread was started with a link to an open forum but became closed at a later stage.

So the link on the first post works Ok?

That's misleading! If you are applying that sort of logic to your other problems, such as copyright, then i can see why you might have some problems.


The link on the first post works Ok only in the sense that if you click on it then you arrive somewhere.

The fact is that where you arrive might not be what was expected, so perhaps the link should be amended to warn people that forum registration/membership will be required!!


and Session IDs are utterly irrelevant for someone just browsing/reading the pages on the forum, to suggest this makes it more secure for 'anonymous' reading is again misleading.


this thread has become a bit of a 'dead parrot' so to put it back on track,

are you fighting the right battle? (as far as ordinary TT users are concerned)

It appears, and i can't be sure, but reading through this thread, you seem to be only concerned with copyright and bandwidth usage issues, i.e issues directly affecting your website.

There is another side to this which, for me, would be much more important, especially to all TT users.
That's using a Chinese company to store and process user's browsing data. Isn't that the same company that's upgrading the 'Great Firewall of China'?

Data processing is something they're clearly very good at. Although TT have stated the intention is for anonymous browsing, there are methods to make it less so, could the Chinese be trusted to handle that sort of data?
If they have no concerns about using DPI technology against their own people, why would they treat TT users any differently?
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 09:31:51
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by user101:
Oh you poor woweebert lol HUH????


First off, i should say that you had my support up until the point your forum became closed to public viewing
and let's not forget that this thread was started with a link to an open forum but became closed at a later stage.

So the link on the first post works Ok?

That's misleading! If you are applying that sort of logic to your other problems, such as copyright, then i can see why you might have some problems.


The link on the first post works Ok only in the sense that if you click on it then you arrive somewhere.

The fact is that where you arrive might not be what was expected, so perhaps the link should be amended to warn people that forum registration/membership will be required!!


and Session IDs are utterly irrelevant for someone just browsing/reading the pages on the forum, to suggest this makes it more secure for 'anonymous' reading is again misleading.


this thread has become a bit of a 'dead parrot' so to put it back on track,

are you fighting the right battle? (as far as ordinary TT users are concerned)

It appears, and i can't be sure, but reading through this thread, you seem to be only concerned with copyright and bandwidth usage issues, i.e issues directly affecting your website.

There is another side to this which, for me, would be much more important, especially to all TT users.
That's using a Chinese company to store and process user's browsing data. Isn't that the same company that's upgrading the 'Great Firewall of China'?

Data processing is something they're clearly very good at. Although TT have stated the intention is for anonymous browsing, there are methods to make it less so, could the Chinese be trusted to handle that sort of data?
If they have no concerns about using DPI technology against their own people, why would they treat TT users any differently?


I don't know how informed or otherwise you are on the laws that govern what TT is believed to be doing at the TT customer end and how difficult it is for the public to successfully deal with cases in that area, BTW I am a TT customer. Now the other end of the problem is that for it all to work access is needed to websites. The case that I am fighting is not about copyright, it is about the right of a website owner to get bills for for accessing a website paid by a commercial organisation.

Edited by Hatari (Fri 20-Aug-10 09:35:13)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 20-Aug-10 10:17:19
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Sites commonly block IP ranges for people/services they do not want accessing their site, perhaps time to talk to your hosting company.

it is about the right of a website owner to get bills for for accessing a website paid by a commercial organisation.


So which sites already do this?

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 10:23:49
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Sites commonly block IP ranges for people/services they do not want accessing their site, perhaps time to talk to your hosting company.

it is about the right of a website owner to get bills for for accessing a website paid by a commercial organisation.


So which sites already do this?


Andrew, I agree with you, however TT do not seem to agree with us, that we have the right to either block them or tell them not to access the sites.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Aug-10 17:07:41
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Sites commonly block IP ranges for people/services they do not want accessing their site, perhaps time to talk to your hosting company.

it is about the right of a website owner to get bills for for accessing a website paid by a commercial organisation.


So which sites already do this?


Andrew, I agree with you, however TT do not seem to agree with us, that we have the right to either block them or tell them not to access the sites.


How big is your collection of cracked records ? grin
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 17:25:23
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
How big is your collection of cracked records ? grin


I have a very large collection of cracked 78s smile

If you read the correspondence on Phoenix things are going remarkably well, far better than could have been expected.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Aug-10 18:26:13
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
How big is your collection of cracked records ? grin


I have a very large collection of cracked 78s smile

If you read the correspondence on Phoenix things are going remarkably well, far better than could have been expected.


I would love to but I have lots of wet paint that needs watching. grin
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 18:30:15
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
I would love to but I have lots of wet paint that needs watching. grin


Surely watched paint never dries, like a watched kettle never boils smile

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Aug-10 18:39:15
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
I would love to but I have lots of wet paint that needs watching. grin


Surely watched paint never dries, like a watched kettle never boils smile


Time will tell. wink
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 18:41:34
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Time will tell. wink


Surely time does not speak, it just passes us by. smile

Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 20-Aug-10 19:41:32
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
.....and how difficult it is for the public to successfully deal with cases in that area

then i take it that's a 'No'



In reply to a post by Hatari:
.....The case that I am fighting is not about copyright, it is about the right of a website owner to get bills for for accessing a website paid by a commercial organisation.

Well, that's plain enough, i guess


so, i wonder who's fighting for the issues that actually affect TT users?


just to point out that the title of this thread is 'TT Stalking'
with the only comment of note in that opening post 'TalkTalk following users'
Standard User Hatari
(member) Fri 20-Aug-10 20:53:12
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by user101:
In reply to a post by Hatari:
.....and how difficult it is for the public to successfully deal with cases in that area

then i take it that's a 'No'



In reply to a post by Hatari:
.....The case that I am fighting is not about copyright, it is about the right of a website owner to get bills for for accessing a website paid by a commercial organisation.

Well, that's plain enough, i guess


so, i wonder who's fighting for the issues that actually affect TT users?


just to point out that the title of this thread is 'TT Stalking'
with the only comment of note in that opening post 'TalkTalk following users'


lol Sometimes people cannot see what's in front of their noses. Think of the effect on TT's scheme when what I am doing is won.

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 21-Aug-10 08:01:04
Print Post

Re: Phoenix recruitment thread


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
Having a stooge come from his forum ( that would be you )and posting what a nice , fair and helpful ruler hatari is , Is like having your wife as your only character witness in a court case , its not going to work in court and its not worked here .

You use the word " comprehend ", maybe you and your husband should do exactly that .

As i and other users have fully comprehended what's going on with a forum that releases a topic to be publicly viewed and then pulls it back in side and demands personal information to continue reading .

Bye

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 21-Aug-10 08:22:56
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Well, at least we now know, by your own admission, that this whole thread and presumably your forum is really all about you and your website.

Maybe the thread's title should be changed to 'TalkTalk attacks my website'
and the only current comments changed to 'Support the poor Website Owners'

and of course providing a link to your website, but carrying a note that forum registration/membership will be required.


Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good strategy!


My question still stands, who, if anyone, is pursuing the other issues....
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sat 21-Aug-10 08:58:32
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by user101:
Well, at least we now know, by your own admission, that this whole thread and presumably your forum is really all about you and your website.

Maybe the thread's title should be changed to 'TalkTalk attacks my website'
and the only current comments changed to 'Support the poor Website Owners'

and of course providing a link to your website, but carrying a note that forum registration/membership will be required.


Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good strategy!


My question still stands, who, if anyone, is pursuing the other issues....


smile You still have not worked out what is being done and I would be a fool to telegraph to TT through this forum what is being done and the stragety that is being followed. Pity you cannot workout the big picture and the effect of chopping one bit off. I am not alone in what I am doing, there are others with whom I am working and together we are covering the who gambit of efforts to protect people.

What are you doing other than criticising me. What action have you taken?

Or are you a TT devote or maybe even an employee trying to muddy the waters?

BTW Anyone who thinks this issue warrants a close scrutiny by the ICO in the UK can contact them via the ICO website or: casework@ico.gsi.gov.uk

Edited by Hatari (Sat 21-Aug-10 11:21:36)

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sat 21-Aug-10 13:55:19
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Or are you a TT devote or maybe even an employee trying to muddy the waters?


I was wondering how long it would be before that was posted. crazy

"The thread is dead long live the thread" wink


.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sat 21-Aug-10 13:56:31)

Standard User Myth
(member) Sun 22-Aug-10 04:35:07
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
I think it is an important issue which should be investigated fully. Getting personal about each other just blindsides the actual issues, and plays directly into the hands of those who don't want the truth to get out.

If it is so easy to register and read the whole thread on Hatari's site (it is, I've done it) and the reason the thread is private is to help with tracking the stalkerbot, then there is no reason not to copy the whole thread somewhere else which is publicly viewable. This doesn't have to be a place where people can add their own comments, it can just be copy on a Hatari owned domain maybe.

There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 22-Aug-10 08:22:24
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
smile You still have not worked out what is being done and I would be a fool to telegraph to TT through this forum what is being done and the stragety that is being followed. Pity you cannot workout the big picture and the effect of chopping one bit off. I am not alone in what I am doing, there are others with whom I am working and together we are covering the who gambit of efforts to protect people.

What are you doing other than criticising me. What action have you taken?

Or are you a TT devote or maybe even an employee trying to muddy the waters?

BTW Anyone who thinks this issue warrants a close scrutiny by the ICO in the UK can contact them via the ICO website or: casework@ico.gsi.gov.uk



Nope, you're absolutely correct, i've not worked it out!

You know why?

i don't have the benefit of reading your mind, or even your forum since you clearly closed that for business reasons.
Either way, that was your call, but don't expect full public support when you take those actions.

You will need to spell it out. I prefer to deal with facts. I try not to second-guess these situations simply because i could be wrong.

If you do have the wider picture in mind, then i'm pleased to hear that since all i've seen from this thread imo are your own personal, selfish reasons
That's one of the reasons i wasn't prepared to register on your forum!!


I think the suggestion from 'Myth' is a good one....

if your reason for closing the forum was not business-orientated, then you should have no problem in co-hosting that thread for public viewing.
That would need to be done by yourself, since anyone else doing so would clearly infringe copyright.

To suggest that the thread is secure behind your forum, hid away from TT eyes is just nonsense.

and just to remind you again, since you seem to have forgotten,
the reason i'm criticising you is that you started a thread here with a link to an open forum.
That got everyone, including myself, interested in what TT were doing.
Then, out of the blue, when traffic increased you CLOSED THE FORUM TO PUBLIC VIEWING!
Some of us feel a little cheated and aggrieved at those actions, and i've yet to see anything that resembles an apology for that.

all you told us was this:

Unfortunately, Because it is difficult to track the Talktalk stalker accesses with guest visitors, we have taken the topic back into the members area.


You may think that's sufficient and all the public needs to know, some of us disagree
basically, i don't enjoy being led up the garden path and fed bs.

My situation and intentions are fairly open and clear, yours are less so.
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Aug-10 10:42:53
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
and just to remind you again, since you seem to have forgotten,
the reason i'm criticising you is that you started a thread here with a link to an open forum.
That got everyone, including myself, interested in what TT were doing.
Then, out of the blue, when traffic increased you CLOSED THE FORUM TO PUBLIC VIEWING!
Some of us feel a little cheated and aggrieved at those actions, and i've yet to see anything that resembles an apology for that.

all you told us was this:

Unfortunately, Because it is difficult to track the Talktalk stalker accesses with guest visitors, we have taken the topic back into the members area.


You may think that's sufficient and all the public needs to know, some of us disagree
basically, i don't enjoy being led up the garden path and fed bs.

My situation and intentions are fairly open and clear, yours are less so.


The truth as I see it -

He closed the thread because he got this thread up and running then decided it was a great way to get new members in his forum rather than let guests read the thread in his forum, I dont believe the excuse he used any more than you and probably the majority of people reading this thread.

As I said earlier "The thread is dead long live the thread" grin




.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sun 22-Aug-10 10:44:48)

Standard User Hatari
(member) Sun 22-Aug-10 11:05:42
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by user101:
Nope, you're absolutely correct, i've not worked it out!

You know why?

i don't have the benefit of reading your mind, or even your forum since you clearly closed that for business reasons.
Either way, that was your call, but don't expect full public support when you take those actions.

You will need to spell it out. I prefer to deal with facts. I try not to second-guess these situations simply because i could be wrong.

If you do have the wider picture in mind, then i'm pleased to hear that since all i've seen from this thread imo are your own personal, selfish reasons
That's one of the reasons i wasn't prepared to register on your forum!!


I think the suggestion from 'Myth' is a good one....

if your reason for closing the forum was not business-orientated, then you should have no problem in co-hosting that thread for public viewing.
That would need to be done by yourself, since anyone else doing so would clearly infringe copyright.

To suggest that the thread is secure behind your forum, hid away from TT eyes is just nonsense.

and just to remind you again, since you seem to have forgotten,
the reason i'm criticising you is that you started a thread here with a link to an open forum.
That got everyone, including myself, interested in what TT were doing.
Then, out of the blue, when traffic increased you CLOSED THE FORUM TO PUBLIC VIEWING!
Some of us feel a little cheated and aggrieved at those actions, and i've yet to see anything that resembles an apology for that.

all you told us was this:

Unfortunately, Because it is difficult to track the Talktalk stalker accesses with guest visitors, we have taken the topic back into the members area.


You may think that's sufficient and all the public needs to know, some of us disagree
basically, i don't enjoy being led up the garden path and fed bs.

My situation and intentions are fairly open and clear, yours are less so.


There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Interesting you did not say what action/s you had taken. Now from that I gather you approve of Talktalks actions. That really says it all including why your trying to rubbish this topic.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Aug-10 11:15:57
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Interesting you did not say what action/s you had taken. Now from that I gather you approve of Talktalks actions. That really says it all including why your trying to rubbish this topic.


I think the point of the thread was lost a long time ago, time to put it to bed I think. wink
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sun 22-Aug-10 11:20:39
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Interesting you did not say what action/s you had taken. Now from that I gather you approve of Talktalks actions. That really says it all including why your trying to rubbish this topic.


I think the point of the thread was lost a long time ago, time to put it to bed I think. wink


Jack I think you position on this is well known from your posts on the TT forum. You disagree with the action people are taking and do not seem to believe that Talkstalk can be wrong. Hence your knocking attitude.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Aug-10 11:40:57
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Hatari:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Interesting you did not say what action/s you had taken. Now from that I gather you approve of Talktalks actions. That really says it all including why your trying to rubbish this topic.


I think the point of the thread was lost a long time ago, time to put it to bed I think. wink


Jack I think you position on this is well known from your posts on the TT forum. You disagree with the action people are taking and do not seem to believe that Talkstalk can be wrong. Hence your knocking attitude.


I dont disagree with the actions some are taking and as i have said if TT are found to be breaking the law i will thank you all here publicly, I have made no secret that I dont believe TT would have entered into this without first taking legal advice or being very sure they are not doing anything wrong, that is my view and nothing you and clique says will change it.

The point i am now making is the thread has run its course and is now being used by you as a tool to get new members to sign up at your forum, nothing more can be done until the police finish their investigation so adding to the thread is pointless, no doubt you will disagree and there will be no surprise there.

As I said "the thread is dead long live the thread" wink
Standard User Hatari
(member) Sun 22-Aug-10 11:41:00
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
I think it is an important issue which should be investigated fully. Getting personal about each other just blindsides the actual issues, and plays directly into the hands of those who don't want the truth to get out.

If it is so easy to register and read the whole thread on Hatari's site (it is, I've done it) and the reason the thread is private is to help with tracking the stalkerbot, then there is no reason not to copy the whole thread somewhere else which is publicly viewable. This doesn't have to be a place where people can add their own comments, it can just be copy on a Hatari owned domain maybe.


On the face of it, it is easy to say copy the topics elsewhere. Not quite as simple as it sounds, you are saying close phoenix down, plus that would require another domain name, plus more disc space etc. In addition, the Stalkstalk stalker follows people so if Phoenix is not operating it will not follow people to Phoenix. Then there comes the problems of managing things and quite honestly, I have enough to do answering TalkTalk correspondence at the moment. The expectations that some people seem to have are just not workable.

Phoenix has never been a publicly viewable site that is what the members wanted.

If anyone wants to read what has been going on with Talktalk they are welcome to register
the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co.uk/index.php and read all three topics.

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Aug-10 11:44:09
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
If anyone wants to read what has been going on with Talktalk they are welcome to register
the-phoenix-broadband-advice-community.co.uk/index.php and read all three topics.


There you go, you just proved everything I said in my last post to be true. crazy
Standard User Myth
(member) Sun 22-Aug-10 14:03:24
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
no, i'm not saying close phoenix down, so ppl will still go there as it is their forum, and TT will still follow. I'm saying copy the words from one thread to another place, not the forum or the forum tools, if you want people to read them. You say your reason for re-privatising that thread wasn't to gather more registered users. The people who wish to write on that thread still need to go there and register even if the words are published elsewhere.
Disk space on 30 pages of forum....text only.... probably not a worry.
Domain, no idea...£5 a year? I dunno, your the expert here.
Managing it...I think you have some moderators smile initial convert might take a while, but updating wouldn't take more than a few mins a day.
I think everyone agrees that phoenix WAS publicly viewable, and this is part of the problem.

Now, don't get me wrong, I've followed your story with ongoing interest, and as I've said I think it is very important, and to that end I worry that are losing support of people here, and I just suggest a solution. It may cost you a bit, it may create difficulties with copywrite, and it may weaken your case in the future, your ppl will know if this is true. You could probably copy the latest posts here with Andrews consent of course and avoid most of your issues with it.
Up to you of course, you have to balance out the various things and decide, but you will get judged on what you choose to do.
Hope you take this in the spirit intended, a way of increasing support for your cause.
regards, Mytheroo

There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Sun 22-Aug-10 15:02:57
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
As I said "the thread is dead long live the thread" wink
There have certainly been some determined efforts to take it off-topic, but I think the main subject may well still have mileage in it.

I therefore declare this sub-thread officially expired, along with speculation as to the motives behind threads on other forums being moved.

Scroll up (or down if you're using threaded display) to find the non-locked posts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com

Edited by billford (Sun 22-Aug-10 15:55:18)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 23-Aug-10 08:06:24
Print Post

Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sean_r:
TalkTalk following users

Details at ......


Just to inform TBB members (since no-one else is doing so) that the 'Stalk' story can also be read and followed on an OPEN forum, not requiring membership, as Phoenix do,


http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showthread.php...

You can usually judge the seriousness of a situation with an ISP by the number of people who decide to leave, on principle, directly as a result of some action by that ISP.

i know what i'm talking about having done so myself!

In this particular case, i have only read of a couple of people leaving TT, although there may well be more, of course.
But, either way, it does suggest that most TT customers are not overly concerned by the present events, suggesting that maybe some sad individuals may well be looking to cash in on the situation.

Well, good luck to them, and good luck to TT laugh
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-Aug-10 09:57:42
Print Post

Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
But, either way, it does suggest that most TT customers are not overly concerned by the present events, suggesting that maybe some sad individuals may well be looking to cash in on the situation.


I posted in the thread when it first started that I didn't believe a company as big as TT would have entered into this without first taking legal advice or being very sure they were not breaking any laws, I think like myself customers (that have read the thread at TT) are now waiting for the outcome of the police investigation and are not overly concerned.
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Mon 23-Aug-10 17:48:38
Print Post

Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
But, either way, it does suggest that most TT customers are not overly concerned by the present events, suggesting that maybe some sad individuals may well be looking to cash in on the situation.


I posted in the thread when it first started that I didn't believe a company as big as TT would have entered into this without first taking legal advice or being very sure they were not breaking any laws, I think like myself customers (that have read the thread at TT) are now waiting for the outcome of the police investigation and are not overly concerned.

And the hole gets deeper http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1729239/tal...


UK ISP Talk Talk tried to talk itself out of the hole it dug when it announced a malware scanning service to automatically snuffle through the webpages that its subscribers visit.

Not surprisingly some customers voiced their concerns at the possibility of their ISP knowing exactly what they were browsing on the web. That led Talk Talk's managing director Clive Dorsman to try to calm fears that it was about to again unleash a Phorm-esque web monitoring system on its customers.

Dorsman reiterated that Talk Talk's scanning system will be opt-in, so unless users actually sign up to the service, they shouldn't worry about having the firm check out their browsing habits. He said that the system does not record who sends the request to the website, saying, "The system simply records the destination website URLs; it does not record who sends the request or other personal data with the URL."

Also Dorsman said that HTTPS traffic is not checked, meaning the system just assumes that sites with SSL certificates are clean. If only all security measures were so forward thinking.

Apparently Dorsman doesn't realise the source of his customers' anxiety, saying, "Being located in the TalkTalk network, the system is subject to the same high level of security applicable to the TalkTalk network and TalkTalk's customer data. The process is not dissimilar to how we record voice traffic." We think you'll find, Mr Dorsman, that having the system within your firm's network is precisely what your customers are worried about. And as for recording voice traffic? Well we're sure that will reassure your customers no end.

Describing, or rather dumbing down, what Talk Talk's web scanner does, Dorsman said, "The system scans website URLs for malware and other viruses and then places each website URL in a white list (if the scan is clean - this is retained for up to 24 hours and then automatically deleted) or a black list (if the scan shows viruses, malware or other irregularities - this is retained for up to 7 days and then automatically deleted)."

Apparently the volume of data being recorded means that it is stored in a "temporary electronic state", with Dorsman claiming that it is not in "conventionally accessible storage". Well, that's alright then, as it's just on a sort of scratchpad but not actually, you know, recorded, innit?

Nevertheless, if you are worried, don't be, as Dorsman says Talk Talk will reveal more nearer the rollout of its web scanner. That is if you can wait that long to be assigned your MAC code. µ
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-Aug-10 18:05:59
Print Post

Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
Nevertheless, if you are worried, don't be, as Dorsman says Talk Talk will reveal more nearer the rollout of its web scanner. That is if you can wait that long to be assigned your MAC code.


I see you have also posted this in the TT thread -

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showpost.php?p...

Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead and so is the one in the TT forum , you and the clique are the only ones keeping both alive and bring nothing new to the thread, as for people leaving i think its time you realised once and for all until the police investigation has finished no one is going anywhere.

Have a nice day.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Mon 23-Aug-10 18:13:58
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Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead
Something of a non sequitur there Jack... and whilst you are entitled to your opinion, it's not your decision.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-Aug-10 18:21:36
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Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Something of a non sequitur


I cannot argue with that. wink

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Mon 23-Aug-10 18:21:59)

Standard User LCake
(member) Mon 23-Aug-10 20:33:29
Print Post

Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
Hatari wrote:
Or are you a TT devote or maybe even an employee

Jack_Hackett wrote:
I was wondering how long it would be before that was postedl

Jack_Hackett wrote[in another thread]:
My local PL team top of the premiership...
...Now 3 - 0 to Blackpool

By coincidence Opal Telecoms (owned by TalkTalk) also in Blackpool
OPAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS PLC - Blackpool Lancashire FY4 1DW



Well I think I can guess who "Jack Hacket" works for and they are not based on Craggy Island...

_______________________________________________
uno Broadband Pro 16 Home from Xilo
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 24-Aug-10 07:51:17
Print Post

Dead Parrot!


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:
Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead
Something of a non sequitur there Jack... and whilst you are entitled to your opinion, it's not your decision.


It is a bit of a dead parrot, but there are some strange noises coming from it and still remains at Perch-level, those facts are indisputable lol

Also, i see that the Opening Post still doesn't contain any additional note warning TBB members that the status of that link has changed mid-way through this thread, now requiring forum registration/membership.
Standard User sean_r
(member) Tue 24-Aug-10 09:26:34
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
user101, It can't be edited as the ability to edit time has expired.

Posted by Jack_Hackett

Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead and so is the one in the TT forum , you and the clique are the only ones keeping both alive and bring nothing new to the thread

If its dead, why do you keep posting in it?
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Tue 24-Aug-10 09:50:25
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Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sean_r:
user101, It can't be edited as the ability to edit time has expired.

Posted by Jack_Hackett

Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead and so is the one in the TT forum , you and the clique are the only ones keeping both alive and bring nothing new to the thread

If its dead, why do you keep posting in it?

He cant help himself Sean .He is keeping me amused , saying we are going on. Pot and kettle springs to mind .Be interesting to see what the home office reply is Today .
Just ignore him sean he is lonely i think .and tryin to get attention mate .
It does brighten my day up mind when he posts .

Edited by paul25 (Tue 24-Aug-10 12:37:03)

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Tue 24-Aug-10 19:33:01
Print Post

Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: LCake] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by LCake:
Hatari wrote:
Or are you a TT devote or maybe even an employee

Jack_Hackett wrote:
I was wondering how long it would be before that was postedl

Jack_Hackett wrote[in another thread]:
My local PL team top of the premiership...
...Now 3 - 0 to Blackpool

By coincidence Opal Telecoms (owned by TalkTalk) also in Blackpool
OPAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS PLC - Blackpool Lancashire FY4 1DW



Well I think I can guess who "Jack Hacket" works for and they are not based on Craggy Island...


A nice try but you failed miserably, I said my local PL team not my favourite, Blackpool is the closest PL team as I live in South Cumbria, you can check under my TT forum user name if you need proof. wink

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Tue 24-Aug-10 19:34:32)

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Tue 24-Aug-10 19:40:53
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
.Be interesting to see what the home office reply is Today .



You are right and as i have already asked paul chambers in the TT forum could i have your names and addresses so i know where to send all these boxes of wet wipes, there is going to be a lot of egg to remove from your faces i am sure. grin
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Tue 24-Aug-10 23:45:02
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
If you aint used um all up with your normal drivel .Why cant you just leave this that are interested and go and spout some were else .
BLINKERED .Have a great day anyway max .
I agree you should be able to dis agree but we have logged your feelings now let those that have a vested intrest post and discuss . I may one day read a post that you have helped someone .No that won't happen will it .You just like arguments .Here is a nice 50p now go and play like a good boy .It is so much easier to mhelp someone than do them down all the time .

Edited by paul25 (Wed 25-Aug-10 00:35:55)

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Aug-10 02:24:39
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Re: Original 'Stalk' story!


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
Thank you Paul for adding something of interest to the thread . i will , when i manufacture some free time ( hopefully over the weekend ) catch up with the thread on TalkTalk forum .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User user101
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Aug-10 08:05:19
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sean_r:
user101, It can't be edited as the ability to edit time has expired.

Posted by Jack_Hackett
Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead and so is the one in the TT forum , you and the clique are the only ones keeping both alive and bring nothing new to the thread

If its dead, why do you keep posting in it?


It may have escaped your notice but all my posts in this thread were really about that link in the OP, following the inflammatory 'Perfect Link' remarks from your compadre.

But Thanks for informing me that you don't have the ability to edit that,
but others do!

If that had been done earlier, in a timely manner, i wouldn't even have posted here...
ISP Representative TALKTALK_SUPPORT
(isp) Wed 25-Aug-10 11:36:23
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: sean_r] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

To all those concerned in relation to this matter please see this page of the TalkTalk Blog for the latest information pertaining to this.

http://www.talktalkblog.co.uk/2010/08/23/keeping-cus...

Regards

Mark

TalkTalk, Online Community
www.talktalkmembers.co.uk/forums
"The information contained within these posts is provided by TalkTalk
to assist in the resolution of any queries our customers may have. Should you
have a specific request for information please do not hesitate to contact me."
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Moderator billford
(moderator) Wed 25-Aug-10 11:41:56
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: TALKTALK_SUPPORT] [link to this post]
 
(Malware is the name given to any software designed to infiltrate a person’s computer without their consent.)
Hmm... isn't that the point of Hatari's complaint? crazy

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

bill@thinkbroadband.com

Edited by billford (Wed 25-Aug-10 11:51:10)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User paul25
(newbie) Wed 25-Aug-10 12:10:47
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: user101] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by user101:
In reply to a post by sean_r:
user101, It can't be edited as the ability to edit time has expired.

Posted by Jack_Hackett
Well as Ive said countless times the thread here is dead and so is the one in the TT forum , you and the clique are the only ones keeping both alive and bring nothing new to the thread

If its dead, why do you keep posting in it?


It may have escaped your notice but all my posts in this thread were really about that link in the OP, following the inflammatory 'Perfect Link' remarks from your compadre.

But Thanks for informing me that you don't have the ability to edit that,
but others do!


If that had been done earlier, in a timely manner, i wouldn't even have posted here...

Hi user i just checked and am unable to edit my post of last night



We cannot proceed.
We encountered a problem. The reason reported was

This post can no longer be edited because the maximum edit time has expired

This is not necessarily an error. If you feel this is an error then it could be something as simple as your browser not being set to accept cookies. If you feel this error is a problem with the server then please contact team@thinkbroadband.com and let us know what exactly went wrong so it can be fixed as soon as possible. Otherwise, please use your back button to return to the previous page.

Edited by paul25 (Wed 25-Aug-10 12:12:33)

Standard User Futaura
(committed) Wed 25-Aug-10 17:51:12
Print Post

Re: TT Stalking


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Also the "Importantly, the anti-malware system does not record or scan any secure https website URLs." part is a bit of a joke - they word it as if they have made a concious decision, but in reality as https requests are encrypted by nature it is technically impossible for them to snoop on https URLs (that includes all the headers containing the actual URL and host name). Probably if it wasn't impossible they would be scanning them smile. If this scanning "technology" becomes widespread, then it'll just push offenders to use SSL instead to avoid it. IMO, the only sensible place to scan for malware is at the user end - TalkTalk's solution will never catch every threat after all, and can only serve to lull customers into a false sense of security.

Edited by Futaura (Wed 25-Aug-10 17:51:57)

Standard User Jack_Hackett
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Aug-10 18:33:52
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
If you aint used um all up with your normal drivel .Why cant you just leave this that are interested and go and spout some were else .


Did you mean where ?

Why should I leave I have lots of interesting points to make on the subject ?

BLINKERED .


I will reply with - MIRROR. grin


I agree you should be able to dis agree but we have logged your feelings now let those that have a vested intrest post and discuss .


You say vested interest I say biased.


I may one day read a post that you have helped someone .No that won't happen will it .You just like arguments .


You have an anmazing knack of opening your mouth and putting both your feet in it, read -

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/talktalk/t/3892688-...

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Wed 25-Aug-10 18:38:44)

Standard User paul25
(newbie) Thu 26-Aug-10 09:16:26
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: Jack_Hackett] [link to this post]
 
Morning Jacked 2 the max .
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/talktalk/t/3892688-...
How lovely . LOL

Edited by paul25 (Thu 26-Aug-10 11:40:07)

Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 26-Aug-10 11:35:06
Print Post

Re: Dead Parrot!


[re: paul25] [link to this post]
 
O dear , another link that does not work ...

I'm unhappy about actions taken by a site owner but this is a important topic .

I'm thinking a new thread with working/ readable links might be a way of getting people to engage in debating this subject .

UKonline... Premier LLU
Standard User Hatari
(member) Tue 11-Jan-11 15:36:41
Print Post

Talktalk monitoring subscribers *DELETED*


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Sadoldman
Moderator Sadoldman
(moderator) Wed 12-Jan-11 10:28:37
Print Post

Re: Talktalk monitoring subscribers *DELETED*


[re: Hatari] [link to this post]
 
Left it alone for a while but I cannot allow TBB to be the vehicle for collecting donations; it does question our impartiality I feel.

I think your views are clear as you have ample opportunity to express them in this long thread that died 6 months ago so I think it best if this one closed.

Closed

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...wink

don@thinkbroadband.com
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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