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Standard User Myth
(committed) Fri 27-Jul-12 20:18:39
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: robby74] [link to this post]
 
interesting there is no correlation. This could just mean the intermittant fault lasts a very short time each time, so would be lucky to affect both pings. It could also only be an issue on the return journey (the exit interface of the talktalk gateway malforming frames and sending them to you for instance).

However, I would say you've done enough to prove the error lies beyond your sphere of control, I just hope you get a technician with a brain who can see you've swap tested all you can and the issue remains.

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User Myth
(committed) Fri 27-Jul-12 20:24:52
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The 50 sobs would be for a Talktalk 'cube' engineer.
I just found this on the tt site BT engineer charges Or are they misleading customers


"A charge will also be made if your line needs to be upgraded to get an acceptable level of Broadband service"

This is a very troubling statement. As we all rent the line from BT and BTOpenreach are responsible for maintaining that line, what exactly are TT on about? What do they mean by upgraded? From damaged to working? Copper to fibre? And who has decided what is acceptable? TT, BT or the customer?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User Myth
(committed) Fri 27-Jul-12 20:46:19
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
I have a longer line than you with 55dB attenuation (to your 45dB)

I get between 3 and 4mbps. You should get between 5 and 6mbit I would say

Your upload looks correct.

I was wondering if you noticed any router stats when it wasn't broken?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!


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Standard User robby74
(learned) Fri 27-Jul-12 21:09:21
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
Interesting. At the moment (the connection is working fine), I get

Connection Speed 4520 kbps 972 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 13.5 db
Noise Margin 2 db 6 db

Would this indicate TT did something since my first post?
Standard User Myth
(committed) Fri 27-Jul-12 21:39:10
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: robby74] [link to this post]
 
i dont think 2dB is enough SNR margin for a long line. Is this a typo? If not it could be a misreport by the router. If it is correct it could account for the packet loss....except I'm guessing you have no packet loss when it says 2dB lol.

So, following the thought that the 2dB is correct, this would mean the signal of some parts of your data stream will get drowned out by any noise on the line. Noise is kinda random, can be generated by neighbours doing weird things, is higher when it is dark.

Interlacing means some of these drop outs can be rectified without you knowing (apart from lower speeds) but if the corruption of the signal is too great then the packet can be lost.

However, your packet loss at 10dB SNR, 45bD atten. and 1300kbps speed suggests spurious, intermittent and loud noise on the line, or some kind of bad, corroded connection.

I would say i feel 80% confident in my thoughts here, I welcome other interpretations of robby's stats.

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User robby74
(learned) Fri 27-Jul-12 21:51:56
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
i dont think 2dB is enough SNR margin for a long line. Is this a typo? If not it could be a misreport by the router. If it is correct it could account for the packet loss....except I'm guessing you have no packet loss when it says 2dB lol.

Just to say that the margin went up to 4db soon after I posted, and is still on 4db now.
Standard User Myth
(committed) Sat 28-Jul-12 09:52:21
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: robby74] [link to this post]
 
i'm just wondering if the 10dB you quoted as Downstream SNR was actually 1dB, as this would account for all the issues. At 1dB you would get significant packet loss and a low speed, at 2dB/4dB the signal would overcome the noise enough to be ok. A change of 3dB in noise levels is not uncommon, and the normal 6dB SNR that most routers try an achieve would mean an SNR of 3dB when the line was noisiest.

Edit: the test would be to ask for a 12dB SNR on ttmembers forums and see if the problem goes away, then drop to 9dB target and test again. I'm thinking a week of each.

I get the feeling you'd be happy with working 2mbit rather than unusable 4mbit, with the view to increasing to 4 gradually to find a sweetspot.

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!

Edited by Myth (Sat 28-Jul-12 09:56:00)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-Jul-12 13:42:40
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
i'm just wondering if the 10dB you quoted as Downstream SNR was actually 1dB
Netgears don't report in tenths.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Sat 28-Jul-12 15:06:58
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Netgears don't report in tenths.

My DG834 v4 certainly does.

Oliver.
Standard User robby74
(regular) Sat 28-Jul-12 17:14:45
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Re: Broadband problem: packet loss


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
i'm just wondering if the 10dB you quoted as Downstream SNR was actually 1dB, as this would account for all the issues. At 1dB you would get significant packet loss and a low speed, at 2dB/4dB the signal would overcome the noise enough to be ok. A change of 3dB in noise levels is not uncommon, and the normal 6dB SNR that most routers try an achieve would mean an SNR of 3dB when the line was noisiest.

I am pretty sure it was 10db.

At the moment I have

Connection Speed 4474 kbps 994 kbps
Line Attenuation 48 db 13.5 db
Noise Margin 6 db 6 db

and all is well.

Edited by robby74 (Sat 28-Jul-12 17:17:53)

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