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Standard User Leki
(regular) Mon 18-Feb-13 19:52:31
Print Post

The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for broadband...


[link to this post]
 
If anyone is interested in seeing how TalkTalk compare with another ISP (bethere.co.uk) for the exact same ADSL2+ broadband service on the same line then i made a comparison of speeds, pings and customer service before i switched to TalkTalk.


In short:

BeThere.co.uk
Download speed: 950 KB/s
Upload speed: 135 kB/s
Pings to gaming servers: 11ms
P2P speeds: Always full speed
Customer Service: Great


Talktalk
Download speed: 690 KB/s
Upload speed: 98 kB/s
Pings to gaming servers: 34ms
P2P speeds: Sometimes came to a complete stop at peak times due to throttling
Customer Service: Terrible (more on that later)


As you can see that is quite a difference for the same product and shows the difference between a good ISP and a bad one.

My many years with BeThere i did not have to contact customer service much, but when i did my issues were always resolved fast and efficiently. With TalkTalk it is a different story so lets start at the beginning.
I ordered (through topcashback) line rental, essentials package and fibre with talktalk, There was a half price essentials offer on at the time but on the online checkout the half price offer was not showing on the total price, so i used the live chat to speak to a sales adviser who told me that was normal and the offer would be applied to my welcome package and bill. I also asked about p2p throttling on the fibre broadband and was told that fibre is not affected as much as the ADSL and so would only drop by around 2Mb at most and i was estimated to get 60Mb. Sounds good right? well no as i later find out that i am being charged the full amount and also talktalk do throttle fibre just as much as ADSL. So either the sales "advisers" lie to you to get the sale or they dont have a clue how things work.

With TalkTalk you can't just sign up to fibre, if you are a new customer you have to first get TalkTalk line rental and ADSL before they start an order for fibre. Although you can order fibre at the same time as your main order and they will automatically start the fibre order once you are connected with phone and ADSL....or so they tell you.
I get sent my welcome pack with fibre modem and had my phone and ADSL activated with TalkTalk, however when i log into my members area i couldn't see anything about my fibre install date. I had heard from other people that TalkTalk customer service was bad but I decided to give them a ring to find out when my fibre would go live as it is just a simple question i thought. After 5 times calling TalkTalk and over an hour with the phone, being put on hold, getting hung up on, passed to different people, the end result was that basically they had no idea what was going on, couldn't tell me when or if i was getting fibre and couldn't place another order for fibre. TalkTalk just seemed to only care about asking me the pointless security questions at the start of every call to "confirm" i was the account holder....anyway the last guy i spoke to said maybe just wait until tomorrow and then try ordering fibre again is the only thing he could think of. Luckily that did work the next day, although it was a good thing i did try to enquire when my fibre would start as if i didn't it would never have.

Having vowed never to ring talktalk customer service again i thought i would give the talktalk members forum a try to see if they can sort out my other issues like ADSL speed and ping and being over charged for the service as i had heard from other people that the talktalk members forum was much better than ringing them. Well it took a few days for my login to the forum to be activated before i could post and then it took a further 8 days to respond to ADSL speed issues by which time it was pointless as i had just been activated on the fibre. My billing problems got answered much quicker and after having to PM more info confirming security questions i got told they will look into the billing issues and they will post back when they have updates for me. Well it's been over a month now and i have not heard anything back and i am still being over charged.

Although they were happy to ring me up recently to try to get me to switch to talktalk for my mobile phone service too.....no chance.

I also did not get any cashback through topcashback as talktalk did not track it so i am having to try and file cashback claims for that which i am sure TalkTalk will try and get out of paying.

If you want good ADSL broadband and a company that can get a simple online order right with good customer service then TalkTalk is not the company you want to go with.


If you want to see more detailed info on the speeds of Bethere and talktalk ADSL then see below:


BeThere:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2392818473.png
http://www.pingtest.net/result/74431589.png

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
2627
2829
3031
3233
3435
3637
3839
4041
4243
4445
4647
4849
5051
5253
5455
Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=244Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=244
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=244Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=244
 Ping statistics for 212.58.241.131:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 11ms, Average = 11ms 
  
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]over a maximum of 30 hops:
   1     8 ms    99 ms    99 ms  192.168.1.254
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.  3     *        *        7 ms  10.1.3.234
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.  5    18 ms    12 ms    12 ms  10.1.4.249
  6    13 ms    12 ms    12 ms  bbc-linx.pr01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [195.66.236.103]  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    12 ms    12 ms    11 ms  ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]  9    14 ms    13 ms    13 ms  132.185.255.60
 10    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  212.58.241.131 
  
 Pinging 85.236.100.76 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=121Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=121
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=121Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=121
 Ping statistics for 85.236.100.76:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 11ms 
  
Tracing route to lon039.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.76]over a maximum of 30 hops:
   1    89 ms    99 ms    99 ms  192.168.1.254
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.  3     *        7 ms     6 ms  10.1.3.234
  4     *        *       13 ms  10.1.3.214  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  195.66.236.224  7    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  lon039.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.76]
 Trace complete.






Talktalk:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2425270475.png
http://www.pingtest.net/result/75304625.png
Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
2627
2829
3031
3233
3435
3637
3839
4041
4243
4445
4647
4849
5051
5253
5455
5657
5859
6061
6263
6465
Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=243Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=243
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=243Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=243
 Ping statistics for 212.58.241.131:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 27ms, Average = 26ms 
  
 Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops: 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1  2    21 ms    19 ms    20 ms  host-78-148-224-1.as13285.net [78.148.224.1]
  3    21 ms    23 ms    21 ms  host-78-151-225-101.static.as13285.net [78.151.225.101]
  4    21 ms    20 ms    22 ms  host-78-151-225-108.static.as13285.net [78.151.225.108]
  5    26 ms    27 ms    27 ms  xe-11-1-0-rt001.the.as13285.net [62.24.240.6]  6    26 ms    27 ms    27 ms  host-78-144-1-61.as13285.net [78.144.1.61]
  7    26 ms    27 ms    27 ms  host-78-144-0-147.as13285.net [78.144.0.147]  8    26 ms    35 ms    26 ms  host-78-144-3-47.as13285.net [78.144.3.47]
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out. 10    26 ms    27 ms    26 ms  ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
 11    27 ms    26 ms    31 ms  132.185.255.60 12    27 ms    26 ms    27 ms  212.58.241.131
 Trace complete.
  
 Pinging 85.236.100.76 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=119Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=119Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=119
 Ping statistics for 85.236.100.76:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 34ms, Maximum = 35ms, Average = 34ms 
  
Tracing route to lon039.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.76]over a maximum of 30 hops:
   1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    21 ms    20 ms    20 ms  host-78-148-224-1.as13285.net [78.148.224.1]  3    21 ms    21 ms    21 ms  host-78-151-225-101.static.as13285.net [78.151.2
25.101]  4    21 ms    21 ms    21 ms  host-78-151-225-104.static.as13285.net [78.151.2
25.104]  5    28 ms    28 ms    27 ms  xe-11-1-0-rt001.sov.as13285.net [62.24.240.14]
  6    28 ms    29 ms    36 ms  host-78-144-1-65.as13285.net [78.144.1.65]  7    29 ms    27 ms    28 ms  host-78-144-1-141.as13285.net [78.144.1.141]
  8    34 ms    35 ms    34 ms  195.66.236.224  9    35 ms    34 ms    34 ms  lon039.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.76]
 Trace complete.
Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 19-Feb-13 00:51:58
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for broadban


[re: Leki] [link to this post]
 
Put simply , TalkTalk are a budget broadband provider , that's right , BUDGET ! . you have come from a premium broadband provider ( PREMIUM ) and expect premium customer services from a budget provider .

See where you went wrong ?

As for your initial slow ADSL connection before you got connected to FTTC ..... Im going to have to stop myself here and ask " why the hell " where you coursing such a commotion about the speed of a connection that was only while you waited for your FTTC ? chances are you had there ridiculously high SNR margin that they connect all new customers with , Oh ! and not forgetting your Be* line was on a Fast Path profile and all TalkTalk lines are interleaved by default , both of which can be fixed with a Email .

guess will will never know as your now on the FTTC product .

Every so often we get somebody that posts a load of " they wont jump through hoops" (like my last ISP ) and it is always with amusement i read their posts .

So again i say , You have come to a Budget ISP with Budget Support , if you don't like , or cant deal with budget support " DON'T SIGN UP TO A BUDGET ISP "

And sorry i didn't read all of your post for obvious reasons , with out the router stats for the TalkTalk ADSL and Be* ADSL connections most of your post is pointless . And yes TalkTalk sales lie to get you to signed up .

Edited by woweebert (Tue 19-Feb-13 00:55:08)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 19-Feb-13 01:45:57
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: Leki] [link to this post]
 
Also never agree a contract at a price that is not what you thought was the offered price and expect for it to be reduced later solely on the say-so of an undocumented telephone conversation, whether it is a budget or a premium provider grin

It wasn't as interesting as you thought it should be without any router stats.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 19-Feb-13 01:48:11)


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Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 19-Feb-13 03:05:38
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
unremarkably i have only just realized you have been with the same ISP for like , forever .

Forever is a very long time , forever is being in a 18 month contract when your not happy with your ISP and the product you have chosen .

Unfortunately , this is where i think the OP is finding them self , but those 18 months( or how ever long the contracts are this week) will fly by , if the OP can avoid using the phone to deal with talkTalk and lowers their expectations from Premium to Budget .

I have been here my self , going from UKonline to TalkTalk but i would still be with TalkTalk and saving money , if it was not for the fact i now have to suffer a Market 1 exchange and all the nastiness that brings .
Standard User babis3g
(learned) Tue 19-Feb-13 04:45:37
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for broadban


[re: Leki] [link to this post]
 
Yes i will agree phone support is not that good
Yes their forums are much better but there is delay
But for phone line can not complain for a budget as mentioned
I never called the support but only 2 times at their forums in the 4 years been with them

I am 2.400 meters far from exchange at TalkTalk LLU


http://www.speedtest.net/result/2518523206.png

http://www.pingtest.net/result/77348702.png

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=244
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=244
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=244
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=244

Ping statistics for 212.58.241.131:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 6ms, Average = 6ms

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 5 ms 4 ms 5 ms host-78-145-16-1.as13285.net [78.145.16.1]
3 5 ms 5 ms 6 ms host-78-151-230-9.as13285.net [78.151.230.9]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms host-78-151-230-28.as13285.net [78.151.230.28]
5 6 ms 11 ms 6 ms host-78-144-1-40.as13285.net [78.144.1.40]
6 36 ms 6 ms 6 ms host-78-144-0-137.as13285.net [78.144.0.137]
7 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms bbc-pp-sov.as13285.net [78.144.5.1]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
10 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 132.185.255.60
11 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]

Trace complete.

Pinging 85.236.100.76 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=120
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=120
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=120
Reply from 85.236.100.76: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=120

Ping statistics for 85.236.100.76:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 13ms, Average = 13ms

Tracing route to lon039.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.76]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 5 ms 5 ms 4 ms host-78-145-16-1.as13285.net [78.145.16.1]
3 5 ms 38 ms 5 ms host-78-151-230-9.as13285.net [78.151.230.9]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms host-78-151-230-24.as13285.net [78.151.230.24]
5 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms host-78-144-1-36.as13285.net [78.144.1.36]
6 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms host-78-144-0-137.as13285.net [78.144.0.137]
7 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms 195.66.236.224
8 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms lon039.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.76]

Trace complete.


Edited by babis3g (Tue 19-Feb-13 04:54:12)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 19-Feb-13 09:35:21
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
Orange & TT are always to be found at the foot of any lists of ISP reviews. I have stayed with Orange for so long because I have always got good speeds and reliability, being fortunate in having a line close to ADSL2+ maxima, and most of the time I don't need its abysmal support. On the few occasions that things went wrong, I formally write to them and eventually get them to bend to my will (I am patient smile). I'm sure others could do so with TT.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User woweebert
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 19-Feb-13 13:46:53
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Actually that's a very good point about knowing how to deal with budget support , in TalkTalk case , its one thing at a time do not confuse them by asking for multiple things to be done at once and try at all costs not to move to much outside there automated systems.

I have successfully sorted all problems i have had and many other peoples problems , just using the forum and Email but its not instant or even with in the hour or day , that's how budget support works , it does work to a fashion but slowly . Fast fault resolutions at a budget provider , really is pie in the sky .
Standard User Myth
(committed) Tue 19-Feb-13 14:06:00
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: woweebert] [link to this post]
 
gonna have to call you on this one woweebert.

Be There are not a premium ISP, they are slightly higher priced than the budget ones, but offer(ed?) a best-they-can-do connection.
When I moved to my curent house they offered line and broadband for £22.50 (middle rate product mwith unlimited allowance) but decided to stick with TT as I didn't want the downtime. The TT product is £27 though it includes some free calls.

Also, unless you have proof of Lexi lying, you have no right to attack him/her for merely posting their experience. For sure, explain why you think the differences arose, I also would have liked to see the router stats, but there's no need to defend customer services failing as a by product of a budget service. It would be better to have no customer service and save more money, at least the OP wouldn't be waiting for the promised outcome.

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Tue 19-Feb-13 14:24:22
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
Be There are not a premium ISP, they are slightly higher priced than the budget ones, but offer(ed?) a best-they-can-do connection.
When I moved to my curent house they offered line and broadband for £22.50 (middle rate product mwith unlimited allowance) but decided to stick with TT as I didn't want the downtime. The TT product is £27 though it includes some free calls.

BE can definitely be considered a premium ISP, relative to TalkTalk. With a price comparison of line rental + evening calls + unlimited broadband, BE works out at £33 whereas TalkTalk works out at £21.45, i.e. TalkTalk is 35% cheaper than BE, and that's before considering extras on BE such as caller display (£2.04) and voicemail (£2.04), which TalkTalk give at no extra cost.

Oliver.
Standard User Myth
(committed) Tue 19-Feb-13 14:38:40
Print Post

Re: The difference between TalkTalk and BeThere for BB


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
one step up from budget isn't premium.

For example, IDnet's unlimited download offering costs £107 a month. Now that is premium, and so is the service as I have had it in 2008.

A Ford Fiesta isn't premium just because a TaTa is half the price. If it was, where would that leave Bentley?

To recap, I consider Be to be a standard service. This is reflected in the prices you quoted, though my personal quotes were fairly matched.

On a side note, I don't get caller display, and 1571 stuff works, but I am definitely on full metal path. Does this sound normal?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
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