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Standard User paulb100
(regular) Wed 27-Feb-13 23:43:26
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Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


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Hi

A friend of mine had Plusnet Fibre installed today, he was talking too the Openreach installer who said Talk Talk customers were suffering slow downs because Talk Talk were falling behind with bills and not paying BT for bandwidth needed ...or something like that, he said customers are only getting 2-3Mb where they would be getting 4-5Mb...??

now, as Talk Talk are LLu I thought this meant that THEY own the line and network? and wouldnt be paying BT for "bandwidth" on their own lines...am I wrong?

I was under the impression that its only on non-LLu connections such as IPstream and WBC (wholesale) where an ISP would be paying BT Wholesale for 'bandwidth'..?

can anyone clarify what this engineer was going on about? or was it just cods wallop?

some of these BT engineers are good and really take pride in their work & knowledge (usually the ones that frequent forums like TBB and Kitz)...but all the ones ive met in person at my house (7 of them) knew NOTHING about broadband provision or things such as SNR, QLN, Bit-Loading and two of them were SFI broadband engineers!!

- unless he was on about Talk Talk in a non-LLu scenario..but I dunno if you can get Talk Talk in an exchange they are not unbundled in? and lets face it..talk talk are in more exchanges than any other LLu ISP

thanks

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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-Feb-13 23:54:18
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: paulb100] [link to this post]
 
If referring to the non llu network there would be something behind it, but otherwise engineer is risking disciplinary action

Another option is they dont understand differences in the dlm systems

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User paulb100
(regular) Thu 28-Feb-13 00:08:48
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If referring to the non llu network there would be something behind it, but otherwise engineer is risking disciplinary action

Another option is they dont understand differences in the dlm systems


So you can get Talk Talk on BT wholesale... have to admit that wouldnt be a huge customer base would it? too the point it make an OR engineer mention it as if its a massive thing..? Talk Talk are unbundled quite well...

I guess that Engineer didnt get the recent flyer-shot from head office of the new "do's and dont's" hehe
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefin...

aye it just seemed an odd thing too say... I wonder just how many exchanges talk talk are unbundled in and how many theyre not in - give a better idea of just what size of customer base they may have on non-LLu

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Standard User izools
(experienced) Thu 28-Feb-13 00:16:44
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: paulb100] [link to this post]
 
Well for a start he wouldn't know about any of thing he has claimed to, they don't have access to information like that.

All LLU providers rent backhaul bandwidth from third party transit providers, be it BT Wholesale or someone else.

As already said, the engineer is risking disciplinary action as his actions are tantamount to slander.

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Standard User paulb100
(regular) Thu 28-Feb-13 00:32:23
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
Hi iZools smile

its snadge from dsl-zone / tech4talk smile

how are you matey? long time no see...

so he just full of poop or totally unsure of what he is going on about, like i said in my previous post OR have just recently reminded staff NOT to talk about such things...guess he didnt get that memo hehe - suppose he just being "open & friendly" - but is it worth your job?

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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Feb-13 00:52:19
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: paulb100] [link to this post]
 
Like a field engineer would be privy to commercially confidential info like that.

I don't think TT offers BB where they are not LLU'd, at least not now. I've done an experiment with various addresses in 2 of their non-LLU exchanges, Moorgate & Alderminster, and they always refuse:
We're unable to offer you this TalkTalk service as it is not currently available.


1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User aquiss
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Feb-13 07:57:00
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: paulb100] [link to this post]
 
I think this BT Openreach needs reminding of the following document:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/aboutus/equival...

Pages 3 and 4 make it clear about comments that engineers (including contractors) should be had with customers.

Martin Pitt
Aquiss Limited
http://www.aquiss.net

Unlimited Family Broadband Packages : http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-unlimited.php
Standard User paulb100
(regular) Thu 28-Feb-13 09:44:15
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Like a field engineer would be privy to commercially confidential info like that.

I don't think TT offers BB where they are not LLU'd, at least not now. I've done an experiment with various addresses in 2 of their non-LLU exchanges, Moorgate & Alderminster, and they always refuse:
We're unable to offer you this TalkTalk service as it is not currently available.


thats what I thought, but i thought I saw offerings on Talk Talk website (or somewhere) for non-network area offerings? - oh well. also iZools pointed out that they may own the last mile but backhaul is usually someone else's for whom they will have to pay rental too , probably either for rental of the backhaul itself OR the amount of bandwidth along it...probably the latter...

you never know, he may know someone really high up in the game who knows this information hehehe

thanks for the replies guys!

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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Thu 28-Feb-13 10:25:17
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: paulb100] [link to this post]
 
I believe TalkTalk use Openreach backhaul circuits, typically 1 Gbit/s as its cheaper than 3 * 100Mbits/s however they do dimension their backhaul at less than 100 kbits/s per user last time they published figures, and even their peak demand isn't a mile off that.

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Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Feb-13 11:04:21
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Re: Talk Talk not paying BT for bandwidth? customers suffer?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Now square that with something talktalk said about at peak times seeing traffic equivalent to 1Mbps per customer online

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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