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Standard User VirgilTracey
(newbie) Sun 20-Oct-13 12:06:11
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How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


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I was astonished to see a banner on the TalkTalk login screen last week announcing that Which? had accredited them with best overall provider (or something similar). If TalkTalk are the "best" then I pity people with other providers.
The YouView TV box keeps breaking down and corrupting recordings, they have replaced it once but it is still no better.
I have an "up to 38Mb" fibre broadband product with them. Their own web site measured my download speed at 21M, and a diagram indicating that the exchange equipment I am connected to is rated at only 24M. How can they get away with selling me up to 38M when they can only deliver a maximum of 24M? My neighbour who is with BT gets the full 38Mb.
After several calls to TalkTalk lasting up to 1 hour each, and frequently being queued for 10 to 15 minutes, they "optimised" the connection. I have since measured 24M, sometimes slightly above, but usually down at 22Mb.
Is the speed problem with TalkTalk or with the exchange and line owners, BT.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 20-Oct-13 12:52:58
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
With fttc openreach control the speeds Isp has very little input.

The exchange saying 24 sounds like bad wording.

Fttc is a distance limited service and even between neighbours you can see big differences in speed

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 20-Oct-13 13:01:43
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
The common form of "fibre" broadband is Fibre to the Cabinet - the fibre runs only to the cabinet, then the signal continues over a pair of wires from there. From the cabinet it uses a form of DSL called VDSL2, and, like all DSL, the available speed depends on various factors, primarily the length and quality of the pair of wires.

It sounds like your service is provided using the wholesale 40 down and 10 up Mbit/s service, which, allowing for overheads, has to be described as "up to 38 Mbit/s" in any advertising. Your neighbour's line may run to a different cabinet, to the same cabinet via a slightly different route, using a pair of wires that turn out to be of better quality than yours (a particular issue if the wires to your houses are overhead - the overhead dropwires deteriorate over time), or may occupy a more favourable position in the cable bundle with regard to crosstalk (which can limit VDSL2 speeds significantly). Such, unfortunately, is the nature of the FTTC technology.

The FTTC deployment is enabling for future technologies that run fibre closer to the end user or all the way to the end user (FTTP), but these are too expensive for widespread deployment at the moment.


The only slightly curious thing is your mention of "the exchange equipment I am connected to is rated at only 24M". 24 Mbit/s is the maximum downstream speed for ADSL2+, achievable only on the shortest lines. Most likely, this figure is the BT Openreach FTTC speed estimate for your line, which you are a little short of (unusual, as these estimates are normally rather conservative, but it does happen). Are you absolutely sure you're on a fibre service, which would mean an engineer had installed a white BT Openreach modem to which you connect your router.


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Standard User VirgilTracey
(newbie) Sun 20-Oct-13 14:29:33
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
Guys,
Yes, I am absolutely sure that I'm on a fibre service, I ordered it and I am paying for it. And I do have a white BT Openreach modem. If I could attach screen shots from my TalkTalk account web pages I could prove to you that I am on 38Mb fibre, and that the exchange equipment displays as 24Mb. My neighbour is connected to the same fibre cabinet but with BT Broadband.
An Openquestion - Are BT allowed to "manage" the line speeds they provide to customers of other ISPs so that their own customers get a better speed?
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 20-Oct-13 14:44:18
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
No your neighbour probably has a better line to yours. Every lines different. You are just likely to be synced at a slower speed as your line may take a longer route to the cabinet, be thinner and worse quality, pass a source of interference etc... The list goes on

It's possible that TT do not have enough backhaul but that's less likely. Also if you are using WiFi that's likely the culprit.

If your neighbour got TT chances are their speed would stay the same. Much like yours would stay the same switching to BT probably.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 20-Oct-13 14:45:24)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 20-Oct-13 14:54:34
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
When i had talktalk adsl2+ their own health check had some slightly odd wording to it.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 20-Oct-13 17:56:33
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by VirgilTracey:
If I could attach screen shots from my TalkTalk account web pages I could prove to you that I am on 38Mb fibre, and that the exchange equipment displays as 24Mb.
Just copy & paste it. I'd certainly like to see the latter.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 20-Oct-13 18:07:22
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by VirgilTracey:
I was astonished to see a banner on the TalkTalk login screen last week announcing that Which? had accredited them with best overall provider (or something similar).
Guess Which? will also be astonished to see that. They rate TT @ 55% compared with their Recommended Providers, Zen @ 79% and PN & Utility Warehouse @ 76%.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User VirgilTracey
(newbie) Tue 22-Oct-13 22:20:54
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I give up. Just spent around an hour trying to copy the image into this message box without it swamping out all controls.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 23-Oct-13 12:31:20
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Re: How can they sell a 24Mb connection as 38Mb?


[re: VirgilTracey] [link to this post]
 
You cannot insert an image into a post, a link to an image hosted on one of the numerous image hosting sites you can do.

If its a webpage you can usually copy/paste the text.

The rules about images are there to
1. Avoid inappropriate stuff being posted
2. Keep pages loading quickly

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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