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Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Mon 25-Sep-17 18:10:46
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Faster Fibre speed tests.


[link to this post]
 
I have run both tests below using the TBB and isp review speed tests i assume they are the same test (probably wrong) so could i ask why the results are miles apart.


TBB - https://s26.postimg.org/i5jpq0sdl/TBB1.jpg

ISP review - https://s26.postimg.org/ko5eqpe3t/TBB2.jpg


.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-Sep-17 18:43:31
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Same technology, but the ISPreview test is over SSL as Mark moved the whole site...

So to verify if that makes a difference use

https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest
and
http://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest

If SSL is proving faster then that's unusual and suggests with end to end encryption something is NOT looking at your traffic, but over plain http something is maybe looking at it.

Also no need to use an image hosting site tests have a share link built in i.e. click the Results Page blue button at the end and it will launch the result on a page you can share the link for.

Also if you've been having issues with Wi-Fi can I suggest that one of the things with Wi-Fi is that a test even just seconds apart on the same device can vary due to the way that the radio spectrum is a shared unmanaged resource.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Mon 25-Sep-17 19:13:42
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I tried the two links and am now getting the speeds below, this is over Ethernet with nothing else running in the house.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15063629605...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15063629144...

Could you explain what this means - If SSL is proving faster then that's unusual and suggests with end to end encryption something is NOT looking at your traffic, but over plain http something is maybe looking at it.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Mon 25-Sep-17 19:16:31)


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Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Mon 25-Sep-17 19:37:22
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
I have run a couple of your test file download and was getting between 3.1 and 3.5MB/s
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Mon 25-Sep-17 20:09:52
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
I don't know if this is any use but there is quite a difference in the results have you any idea what is happening?

Slow - https://s26.postimg.org/oqinkk42x/slow.jpg

Fast - https://s26.postimg.org/gz1xlzzxl/fast.jpg

.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 25-Sep-17 20:55:39
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
http is being throttled
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-Sep-17 21:31:42
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
That would be my conclusion too, what is doing the throttling I don't know but looks like something is, particularly if the good SSL test is reproducible

The SSL test is looking good and the non version of ours is not, and its same code and same files.

It is not a generic TalkTalk issue as can see users getting good http tests e.g. http://tbb.st/1506364326300636355

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 10:56:21
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I have again tested this morning and am getting the same results on the tests i did yesterday, i have also today run the tests on my phone and the results on the speed test are almost identical (unlike last night) and on the http vs https site there is now only two seconds between them so its only on Ethernet this throttling is happening.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Tue 26-Sep-17 11:06:30)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 26-Sep-17 11:02:17
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Are you running any software that could monitor your http connection - AV, Firewall, etc?

What browser are you using?
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 11:12:29
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Are you running any software that could monitor your http connection - AV, Firewall, etc?

What browser are you using?


I have edited my earlier post to say the speed tests were roughly the same today on Ethernet (not like last night where they were a mile apart)

I am using chrome and i haven't any software monitoring the PC.
.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 11:18:36
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Again my thread has been moved to the back of beyond as the community star has decided its not a problem for the OCE's to deal with and its your speed test that is wrong.


Over the past couple of weeks you have posted multiple speed test results from multiple different speed testers.Those results have been broadly consistant (but not identical). There have already been a couple of threads discussing results variability.

This Thinkbroadband results seems to be out of sync with the other tests. It would appear more appropriate to ask Thinkbroadband why their results are so different to everyone elses.

As this does not need OCE intervention, and is more a continuation of previous discussion threads I will move the post to the "Join The Discussion" section of the forums.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 26-Sep-17 11:44:56
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried using another browser for comparison?
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 12:11:55
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Have you tried using another browser for comparison?


I have just tried using Edge and got 31Mbps on https and 19 on http.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 26-Sep-17 12:15:33
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
So that's much the same as your OP
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Sep-17 12:49:32
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
As to why our results are different, that's because we want our results to have diagnostic value, rather than just telling providers numbers they are happy with i.e. top quartile or burst type results and nothing to indicate any speed variation.

Your latest round of testing where http is different to https points to something, and as with the Wi-Fi testing you did before with access to all your hardware its hard to be sure. Another trick you can do is take your kit to a friends, and compare Ethernet and Wi-Fi results between your PC and theirs on the same connection.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Sep-17 12:50:07
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying you have ZERO firewall or anti-virus installed? I hope not.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 14:01:19
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying you have ZERO firewall or anti-virus installed? I hope not.


I didn't know what you meant by monitoring my http, yes i have both.

Are you running any software that could monitor your http connection - AV, Firewall, etc?

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Tue 26-Sep-17 14:03:02)

Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 14:09:29
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
As to why our results are different, that's because we want our results to have diagnostic value, rather than just telling providers numbers they are happy with i.e. top quartile or burst type results and nothing to indicate any speed variation.

Your latest round of testing where http is different to https points to something, and as with the Wi-Fi testing you did before with access to all your hardware its hard to be sure. Another trick you can do is take your kit to a friends, and compare Ethernet and Wi-Fi results between your PC and theirs on the same connection.


Thanks, i don't really have the option to move my PC to another place and since starting my thread over there my speeds using their own speed test on Ethernet have miraculously jumped from 24Mbps to 37Mbps i wonder if it is a coincidence.

TT speed test early morning - https://eigde79682.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage...

TT speed test later this morning - https://eigde79682.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage...

So basically what you are saying is if this test was run on the other test site it would show 34Mbps as my download speed because that is the highest burst on the download which doesn't actually tell the true speed. - https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15064314431...

.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Tue 26-Sep-17 14:15:20)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Sep-17 15:13:10
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
In the 30 to 34 Mbps region is what a good few places I've looked at certainly would

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Sep-17 15:15:55
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Monitoring my HTTP, i.e. doing stuff like looking for malware type traffic patterns, this takes some time and can have varying effects depending on the PC, software and how busy OS is.

With HTTPS it is possible that if the end point is considered trusted less intrusive checking is done, since you have an encrypted tunnel.

Another option is HTTP may be being intercepted by an ISP proxy cache and this is causing issues, but for HTTPS the proxy cache is bypassed. The test is configured to have all the parameters set to so browsers bypass caching, but with transparent proxy caches this is not always the case.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 15:43:47
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Monitoring my HTTP, i.e. doing stuff like looking for malware type traffic patterns, this takes some time and can have varying effects depending on the PC, software and how busy OS is.

With HTTPS it is possible that if the end point is considered trusted less intrusive checking is done, since you have an encrypted tunnel.

Another option is HTTP may be being intercepted by an ISP proxy cache and this is causing issues, but for HTTPS the proxy cache is bypassed. The test is configured to have all the parameters set to so browsers bypass caching, but with transparent proxy caches this is not always the case.



Thanks, i have looked into it and the last part of the quote below "Bandwidth throttling and tethering detection" makes interesting reading it would seem any ISP's using it can throttle customers connections is there a way of proving this?


Why do they use transparent proxies?

They can cache incoming web data, This is one of the benefits of a proxy cache. This allows your ISP to save a huge amount of bandwidth while serving the requested cached data much faster.

They can force users to use your proxy, allowing password checking,web filtering, and other functions. - Yes, they can see what you are doing and act upon it, for example they can limit your download speed if their proxy server sees that you are downloading an mp3 file.

On the fly image optimization - Ive seen this on some ISPs where they automatically compress the requested images to save bandwidth. This is good for mobile users since you will only download less data but there are instances where the image is totally compressed to the point that you really can not see the image anymore.

They can allocate your traffic to go out other gateways aside from your default, without needing to use load-balancing software or BGP.

Bandwidth throttling and tethering detection - They can also use this to throttle your internet connection and detect if you are tethering your mobile internet connection.

http://www.pdproxy.com/blog/is-your-isp-using-a-tran...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Sep-17 16:08:39
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Tethering detection only applies to mobile broadband providers i.e. 3G or 4G services not fixed line broadband

The behaviours you are seeing are not indicative of throttling either, you currently have so many variables at play that any firm conclusion without a lot more effort from people visiting and testing known hardware or taking your hardware to a well known connection is impossible.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 18:24:20
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The behaviours you are seeing are not indicative of throttling either, you currently have so many variables at play that any firm conclusion without a lot more effort from people visiting and testing known hardware or taking your hardware to a well known connection is impossible.


Thanks.

Would using your test files be a more accurate test, i have ran the top 4 and got these times.

Test Files - https://www.thinkbroadband.com/download


100 MB = 31 seconds

200 MB = 1:04

512 MB = 2:31

1 GB = 4:38

.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Tue 26-Sep-17 18:24:52)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Sep-17 18:50:10
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
The test files are another option you can use

Your figures are

25.8 Mbps
25 Mbps
27.1 Mbps
28.77 Mbps

The longer time periods may smooth out the variations you've been seeing, and as I've said before if we did not show the graph and just the burst speed you'd probably be as happy as Larry.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 26-Sep-17 19:05:09
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for changing the times into Mbps, to be honest a low figure of 25Mbps for small files and a high of 28Mbps for large ones will do for me, i am still getting an average of 27Mbps on Wi-fi sat in a different room to my router with two walls between us and as all the family use Wi-fi and only i use Ethernet i think we will be fine, i will keep an eye on my speeds and see how it goes.

Doesn't seem that long ago you would have started the 1 GB test file downloading and gone to watch a DVD before checking it was finished laugh

.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Tue 26-Sep-17 19:07:02)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 27-Sep-17 04:16:48
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
ispreview seems more up to date with tech andrew.

In the old days http was indeed faster than https.

However they using http/2 and even with https its often faster than http. (http/2 is https only as encryption is the future of the net).

So it might not be traffic inspection related.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-Sep-17 09:10:17
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Yes the ISPreview speed test is more up to date tech than the thinkbroadband one...

You do know who supplies the ISPreview speed test?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Sep-17 12:58:30
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Is your day to day use of the internet affected at all?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Wed 27-Sep-17 15:58:12
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Is your day to day use of the internet affected at all?


No but when i was getting 12Mbps on ADSL i rarely noticed any slow down even when my son was home using youtube, gaming etc, my point is if i could not get more than 24Mbps (i was guaranteed 35 Mbps) i may as well have stayed on ADSL and put up with a little extra time uploading pictures etc.

.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 28-Sep-17 10:02:22
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
if its yourself and its over http then why are you making other suggestions?

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Sep-17 12:28:00
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Clearly sarcasm got lost in my post...

Am lost as to your actual point...

On the main tbb site we force http for testing at present (not the word present), but there is the option to go to test directly e.g. https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest

Others including ISPreview have made the jump to pure SSL testing already and that's possible because the speed test supports a variety of options, not that these other sites have rewrote the speed test themselves.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 19:19:27
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Re: Faster Fibre speed tests.


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
http is being throttled


This has just been posted over at the TalkTalk community forum, i have asked how he tested it -

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Fibre-Broadband/...

I found ways to check to see if your internet provider is purposely throttling and slowing down your speeds and the tests showed that they are slowing them down. So i'm now in the process of cancelling my contract and taking my money elsewhere.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Fri 13-Oct-17 20:15:49)

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