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Standard User fuzzbass
(newbie) Sun 01-Apr-12 01:41:54
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Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real problem?


[link to this post]
 
I'll try and keep this short.

Long time Demon customer, ok service until late last year when I started suffering intermittent disconnections - the service would just "disappear" even though my router/modem would show I was connected.

The only way to resume the service would be to reboot the router - and then wait 30 mins to an hour waiting for the router to handshake and re-connect (the connection would start, drop after a minute, reboot itself and then go through the loop again). I'm pretty sure it never used to do this.

Spoke with the technical help desk - Went through a standard plug into master socket / change the filter / make sure router has latest firmware routine with the help desk and then was advised that I also need to try a different router. Invested in a new machine as the old was a couple of years old, to find that the same thing would happen - so it's not the router.

One thing to note, I don't seem to have a master socket with a test socket behind the plate but I'm pretty sure that I've connected to the main entry point (the connections been there for possibly 15-20 years). I also have a BT installed extension on the line.

Reported a fault to BT (retail?) who stated there is no problem whereas Demon claim there is voltage (i think) on the line.

After escalating at Christmas Demon said that they'd now made some changes to my profile at the exchange and that this would stabilise the problem. Some weeks later the problem restarts. I contacted the help desk once again to go through the whole test cycle again. The net result is Demon have now lowered my connection speed from 16 (really 13) mbps to 3 yesterday saying that this has fixed the problem.

Phoned them today to let them know that this was not a satisfactory resolution to the problem (and I still get the 30-40 mins "handshake" when the router is rebooted) and I want to understand what I need to do to get my previous speed back as well as fixing the long "handshake" problem, A long call never really clearly identified the cause.

So, can anyone tell me who I need to speak to and what I need to ask them in order to fix this (and yes of course changing provider is one option).

Cheers

Zig
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 01-Apr-12 10:03:02
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: fuzzbass] [link to this post]
 
Make a note of the connection speed, noise margin and attenuation figures from the ADSL hardware when its good and bad, then look for a pattern.

If these are ultra stable, then it may be something that has been on/off for years with Demon and that is authentication issues. I say this as you said the router showed it was connected.

Reporting an ADSL fault yourself to BT Retail will get you nowhere, Demon if they are seeing a fault condition affecting broadband should report it to the wholesale provider, be that C&W or BT Wholesale who will then handle the fault.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 01-Apr-12 11:15:11
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: fuzzbass] [link to this post]
 
a renegotitation of the DSL link that takes more than a minute is taking too long, have you tried a different router ? I assume this is a C&W LLU service from the >8M speed reference.

The stats from the router like attenuation, sync speed, SNR margin may help.

Everything kosher at your end - filters, wiring etc ? Tried it in the test socket ?

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics


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Standard User fuzzbass
(newbie) Sun 01-Apr-12 12:49:28
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
May thanks - and yes it's the repeated renegotiations that are the main problem. I can handle having to restart the modem every so often if the connection came back straight away - but a 30-40min delay is a PITA.

The copper is provided by BT I think so not sure about the C&W reference - but yes it used to run at up to about 13 or 14m before the "troubles".

I've tried several filters (4) tried it in the main BT socket (not the extension), and get the same pattern of connect and restart.

WRT the main BT socket - this doesn't have a test socket behind the faceplate.... would there be another entry point somewhere else in the house? What do I need to look for outside to figure this out?:

The router modem is a linksys x2000 - any ideas where I go to get the stats you mentioned and also what should "normal" look like?
Standard User fuzzbass
(newbie) Sun 01-Apr-12 12:54:51
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The reason for calling BT was because Demon requested I do so - but you're right, it got me nowhere other than to open a ticket, run a line check and for BT to disagree with the Demon about where the problem lay.

Where do I get the noise margin & attenuation figures from and what should they look like? It's a Linksys X2000.

Cheers
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 01-Apr-12 14:43:01
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: fuzzbass] [link to this post]
 
Copper is ran by Openreach, but C&W who own demon use their own hardware in a lot of exchanges. This should allow them to look at connection stats and logs and techs decipher it.

The fact Demon told you to call BT when it should be them doing this speaks volumes.

Put it this way, if your car is misfiring, does the local garage tell you to contact the chip manufacturer for the ignition control system?

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 01-Apr-12 18:06:43
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: fuzzbass] [link to this post]
 
not familiar with that router, does http://192.168.1.1/setup.cgi?next_file=adsl_driver.htm get you anywhere ? perhaps after doing http://192.168.1.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug ??

You're looking for ADSL line statistics in the status or similar pages, perhaps behind a Details button. There will be upstream and downstream figures for attenuation, SNR / noise margin, errored seconds, CRC errors etc etc

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User fuzzbass
(newbie) Mon 02-Apr-12 00:05:08
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the suggestions - unfortunately that address takes me to an Invalid Session Key message.

Contacted Cisco to see if they could tell me where I can get this info - apparently it's not available.

They did suggest I reflash the firmware - without really confirming that knew what the problem is. It feels like the equivalent of Demon's "plug into master socket / change your filter" routine.

So I'm back to square one with a downgraded service and no real idea as to why my device takes so long to renegotiate the connection each time I have to restart.

I'm sure there'll be a "doh"! moment at some point - I just wish I knew what it was.

Any other ideas?
Standard User skandia2
(newbie) Mon 02-Apr-12 08:13:02
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: fuzzbass] [link to this post]
 
Hi re the router status

see linksys x2000 user manual @

http://homedownloads.cisco.com/downloads/userguide/X...

it looks like you need enter the following address in the browser 192.168.1.1

& select status from the top menu.

Richard
Standard User fuzzbass
(newbie) Mon 02-Apr-12 12:11:05
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Re: Demon Disconnections - how do I identify the real proble


[re: skandia2] [link to this post]
 
Thanks .... RTFM LOL smile

I'll double check... it's possible I missed something, but I'm pretty sure the only stats shown in the browser utility were connection speeds along with a bunch of logs.

Today's update - after having to get vocal with the heldesk at the weekend about the speed cap I received a call from a nice chap at Demon who advised that after further investigation they were pretty sure that the fault was with the phone line and told me that I had to call BT/151 and ask them to run an Openreach Test.

BT have run the test and lo and behold, agree that there is a fault with the line or local network and should have it fixed in the next day or two.

Fingers crossed!
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