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Standard User broadbanddoomed
(newbie) Thu 01-Aug-13 15:55:01
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phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequently


[link to this post]
 
Hi, new on this forum, so hi everyone

Just wondering how much a phone line split before the master socket might increase Attenuation; it's a BT line and we use BT as provider as well. We live in a cottage, the phone line comes overland across the field, and just before it enters the house, it splits two ways. A cylindrical sleeve covers the connections and is tied to the line with plastic tags. One line goes to an upstairs room, the other downstairs.

The downstairs line I assume to be the master socket, but because the configuration is, I believe, technically incorrect, it's not a proper master socket as it were. The downstairs socket (the 'master' one) has been fitted with a broadband accelerator face to shut off the bell wire, and a couple of wires slip through the device (green, and green and white) to the removable faceplate. The upstairs socket has no wires at all connected to the outer removable face. Both lines work with phone and with modem-router.

Our attentuation is pretty dire really, such as 47db/30db for down/up traffic. Line tests show it to be fine, with a synch speed of about 3.8Mbps, but in reality upload/download are both in the region of 0.35Mbps.

So even though we live some distance from the exchange, could it be that the unusual phoneline configuration (a star config) is adding to the noise of the line? Of course, BT tests from both human customer service and auto tests show the line to be fine. Customer services just follow a script, and have no idea what I'm telling them, that the line splits.

If we managed to get a BT engineer out (ha ha), and if the the problem was perceived as a BT problem (and thus avoiding the fee), would it increase upload/download speeds if this other line was removed? would it help with the random slow downs and drop outs?

Or are we broadband doomed.

Curious about other people's experience with the kind of setup we currently have.

Thanks in advance
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-Aug-13 16:00:47
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: broadbanddoomed] [link to this post]
 
We live in a cottage, the phone line comes overland across the field, and just before it enters the house, it splits two ways. A cylindrical sleeve covers the connections and is tied to the line with plastic tags. One line goes to an upstairs room, the other downstairs.


Any chance of a few pics of that setup?

Alastair

omadasafisho
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Aug-13 16:07:34
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: broadbanddoomed] [link to this post]
 
Should have zero affect on attenuation, but for ADSL standard broadband, a small affect, for ADSL2+ a greater affect, and an even bigger affect for VDSL.

To assess how much of an effect this split is having need to see the full stats from the line i.e. what you would need to fill in http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc

The 0.35Meg upload speed suggests you may have an older ADSL based service too. which gives an estimate of 3600 to 5000 Kbps for ADSL mode connections.
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/calculator.php?par...

The problem would not be a BT one, but would be considered one you would have to pay to fix. I have one of my lines doing the same under the rafters. My solution was to ensure no ring wire was present and am using dangly micro filters at one end where modem is and a neat ADSL extension socket down behind the TV - which is not used for anything other than a Sky box.

On the random slow downs, you need to see if the SNR margin is lower when the connection is performing badly, if yes, then changes might help, but they might not.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User broadbanddoomed
(newbie) Thu 01-Aug-13 16:27:45
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks MrSaffron, that's good solid info to work with, ta smile
Standard User broadbanddoomed
(newbie) Thu 01-Aug-13 16:29:45
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: broadbanddoomed] [link to this post]
 
Here are 3 photos to show interested readers the configuration

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11245340@N00/sets/72157...

hover over photo shows caption, self explanatory

thanks a lot for help

(ps goes without saying that I'm using ADSL filters and they appear to be working fine)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Aug-13 16:34:23
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: broadbanddoomed] [link to this post]
 
Looks like two master sockets, can we check that the same phone number is used on both of these sockets?

The downstairs socket appears to have the outside cable coming to it, but there is some cable of interest on the upstairs line as this has internal cable going to it, so probably a junction box somewhere and just maybe another extension too.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbanddoomed
(newbie) Thu 01-Aug-13 16:59:46
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes it is the same number, definitely. Have tried phone and modem-router on both sockets. Some router stats not quite as good on upstairs socket, incidentally.

My reckoning is that originally some kind of two phone number system down one wire was originally used, as previous owners had an office upstairs.

Apart from these two cables going to two master sockets, a real Y shape, there are really no other junctions coming off anywhere. Everything is clearly visible on the outside of the house.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Aug-13 17:02:14
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: broadbanddoomed] [link to this post]
 
Best to share the actual router stats, as the figures can sometimes reveal interesting snippets e.g. if SNR margin is high, then ISP might be able to get it tweaked lower so you run faster.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbanddoomed
(newbie) Thu 01-Aug-13 17:08:11
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I used to run the modem off an extension, but have stopped that and stats improved marginally (e.g. loads of errors local, then none); but dropping out or slowing down completely still not improved. These are the stats with the modem-router plugged straight into the downstairs master socket:

ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state:
Connected
Connection time:
0 days, 00:01:33
Downstream:
3.875 Mbps
Upstream:
448 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI:
0/38
Type:
PPPoA
Modulation:
G.992.1 Annex A
Latency type:
Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up):
12.0 dB / 23.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up):
46.3 dB / 29.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up):
18.6 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up):
56 / 1
CRC Events (Down/Up):
0 / 1
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up):
0 / 1
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):
0 / 1
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Aug-13 17:11:40
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Re: phoneline split outside house - broadband drops frequent


[re: broadbanddoomed] [link to this post]
 
The 12dB noise margin is costing you around 1 Meg in speed, so if the line is holding that noise margin when dark, in theory over time the noise margin might reduce and you gain some more speed.

Alternitively you might be able to pester ISP to reset target noise margin to the default 6dB

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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