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Standard User leighdj45
(newbie) Mon 27-Apr-15 14:33:16
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Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[link to this post]
 
Good afternoon everyone,

I come here in search of some help. We've had a problem with our internet connection for several weeks now that no one seems to understand how to fix.

Recently I've had a problem with seemingly random disconnections. These disconnections can occur either every few days, or during times of high instability a few times an hour.

Currently my router records the following line stats:

Upstream /Downstream
Current Rate (Kbps) 64 2144
Max Rate (Kbps) 192 2272
SNR Margin (dB) 5 14.8
Line Attenuation (dB) 31.5 57.2

The line's actual throughput speed is incredibly slow during instability and varies around 0.2mb. My ISP however can't seem to understand that this is an issue - because after a few days (with no disconnections) the line recovers to around 2mb throughput download speed.

When the line is stable my upload goes back to 448kbps sync rate and a higher SNR margin on the upload side.

An engineer was out a couple of weeks ago to investigate, replaced some wiring externally and it seems it fixed the fault. Turns out this is not the case.

Exchange is Sicklemere, ISP is Newnet - any ideas, as this is becoming a serious pain

I've had the broadband quality monitor running on the line for a while - I'd describe it as:
all over the place:

My Broadband Ping

Edited by leighdj45 (Mon 27-Apr-15 14:44:18)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 27-Apr-15 14:52:24
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: leighdj45] [link to this post]
 
Can you run Router Stats Lite - easily locatable and runs with most ADSL modems/hubs.

Set it up to record Sync Speeds and SNR both up and down. That might show a pattern.

Have you also checked and tested with NOTHING apart from your modem connected? Just to make sure there is nothing in your house that is causing it.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User leighdj45
(newbie) Mon 27-Apr-15 15:02:13
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Router doesn't work with Router Stats Lite unfortuantly.

Yep, we've tested it with nothing in the house connected. Just the fact that I can see high lots of packet loss on the line as well - makes me think it has to be a line issue.


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 27-Apr-15 15:09:25
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: leighdj45] [link to this post]
 
Which router?

It may be worth borrowing a compatible one. At least you can then get a picture of what is happening over time and how quickly it degrades or it there are specific time related incidents.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User leighdj45
(newbie) Mon 27-Apr-15 15:22:53
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
The router I have is a TP LINK W8970 - my ISP say at times that they are trying to add my capacity at their end - but I'm not sure if I'm being fobbed off. They've been saying that for weeks but is that something that looks needed on the graph in the 1st post?
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 27-Apr-15 15:29:33
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: leighdj45] [link to this post]
 
Given that they offer FTTC and many other business grades products which use large amounts of bandwidth I would suggest they could be trying to fob. If you are getting those problems with your need for under 2Mbps, just think what a user with a 80Mbps FTTC connection must be seeing.

As for the TPLink W8970 - the 8960 and others are supported which suggests you can tweak RSL to work. At the top of the list is a "User-Defined Router" which has instructions on self configuring. So, try the 8960 first - if that fails try defining yourself.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User leighdj45
(newbie) Mon 27-Apr-15 15:37:39
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thought as much - they seem to be doing a good job at avoiding the questions I ask them through the online support tool - because my line apparently is only marked for a max speed of 1mb download (which is ridiculous as I had 2.5mb for YEARS without an issue, if not more) they don't see a major issue. I keep saying that the speed improvements will come if the line didn't keep dropping!

I'll see what I can do about getting RouterStats working, but I have noticed my downstream SNR margin has been going from 16 to 14db and everywhere inbetween in the last couple of minutes - would I be right in thinking it shouldn't be ducking and diving this much if it was stable?
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 27-Apr-15 15:59:32
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: leighdj45] [link to this post]
 
The margin WILL fluctuate minute by minute maybe as much at +/- 1dB, and on a long line there is more chance of noise being picked up. It should not be as high as 12dB unless it has been increased from the normal 6dB target to allow "issues".

There is a daily pattern it would tend to follow to. Here is an old image of my ADSL service - the downstream SNR varies by +/- 0.5 minute by minute and there is a gradual change during the day. Most lines will follow that sort of profile some better and some worse.

If you can get 2wire2700HGV hub - BT supplied them for business users. They are slightly old, however they do have a good long line performance and you can normally pick one up (even new) for around £5 - you need to tweak it to work with non-BT. Worth a try to see if it improves.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 27-Apr-15 16:45:48
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: leighdj45] [link to this post]
 
The line seems to have a high downstream target noise margin but worryingly also a poor upstream rate, generally upstream performs better than you are seeing on a long line.

One presumes that the telephone line is working and is noise free?
Also you say you have tested with nothing connected, does this mean you have used the test socket accessed by partially taking apart the master socket?

If this line is an old IPStream Max service rather than a 21CN ADSL2+ service, then a small blip that modem recovers from will lower the IP Profile and this can take time to recovered (a few hours to five days).

The ISP should have visibility of what your IP profile is and a history of it too.

I suspect that there is a line fault, or still some internal wiring issue.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User leighdj45
(newbie) Mon 27-Apr-15 18:27:51
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Re: Spontaneous loss of connection: NewNet/Timico


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I've just checked our phone line (we don't use it much) and can hear a loud crackle down it. Do I now go back to NewNet or TalkTalk (my telephone supplier) about it? Would that affect the situation?

I have one of those split master sockets - where the ADSL connection is separate the phone line connection, i.e no filter.

I've just been sent this Firebrick monitoring graph from NewNet where they say:

Line ADSL Monitoring Graph

"It is nothing to do with BT hardware etc. It is nothing that you can do to push them/us for more capacity.... Your line is not, in isolation causing the congestion that we are having. It is the total of all our customers usage. Your line is congested for other reasons as well as being affected by our congestion"

The red line/dots are upload data from your router. You will see that it is almost continuous. That means there is a constant upload of data coming from you. When that happens the overall capacity of your line is more limited and your download ( the green dots) speed has suffered.

I have a copy of my line statistics - is what they say matching what everyone else sees? I have had major issues getting 0.25mb today, let alone anything higher...

"When the amount of data reaches troo high for your line, then it is"maxxed out", as can be seen for most of today - the heavy blue and red colouring. This results in the capacity and remaining speed dropping almost to zero, while the upload continues.

You will see that yesterday, there is an amost constant green line. This is download traffic to you router, and you can see that it is at the top of the graph. That shows your line is working to its maximum potential of approx 2Mbps.

I suggest that simply, too much data is going up/down your line at the moment to give you a constant reliable speed."

But the crackle is there... the line is VERY slow... there has to be a problem surely?!
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