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Standard User cheshire_man
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 17:08:12
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Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[link to this post]
 
I'm regularly helping an elderly couple with their assorted computer problems. Was over there today to fix a browser issue - he'd unwittingly zoomed the font size to its minimum.

While there I had the opportunity for a quick look at their very slow broadband. They run 2 desktop PCs and occasionally a laptop. The desktops are connected via PowerLine adapters, the laptop via wireless.

I need to take my laptop over and connect it directly to the Netgear router to see if there's any significant difference in performance but the numbers from a desktop PC are not very good - to say the least.

TBB speedtest gives:
D/L: 0.1Mbps, tbb x 1, bursting to 0.2 Mbps
U/l: 0.56Mbps bursting to 0.63Mbps

Wow!

The connection data from the router (CS/LA/NM)
Down: 286 kbps / 50.7 db / 7.3 db
Up: 808 kbps / 29.5 db / 9.4 db

With a Line Attenuation of 50.7 Kitz suggests a DSLMax of 4832 kbps, even the worst figure in the Kitz results is 4000 kbps, around 14 times better than they're getting.

The PLAs may be losing a small amount of speed but given their connection speed any PLA loss is irrelevant.

Clearly there's something seriously wrong and I need to go there on a working weekday so I can talk to Eclipse, their ISP. I'm well aware that there are issues from at least some domestic users that Eclipse is limiting speeds, but I'm with Eclipse and get 7-8Mbps with LA of 41.5 and no real complaints.

Could it be that somehow their line is capped? They live in a block of retirement apartments built within the last 10 years or so.

Thoughts on what the possible issues might be would be welcome.

Tony
Happily running Windows 10 Pro on both desktop and laptop
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 17:44:57
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
I think it's all just conjecture until you see the router stats.

You should also investigate and then describe the set up of the line and extension wiring.

Take a small cross headed screwdriver with you, that way, once you have noted initial stats 'as is', then you can test again with the router in the test jack of the NTE.

Standard User cheshire_man
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 17:48:48
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I've posted the router stats. It's connected to the only socket in the apartment, no extension wiring, and the only other connected device is a DECT phone.

Tony
Happily running Windows 10 Pro on both desktop and laptop
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 17:58:28
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cheshire_man:
I've posted the router stats. It's connected to the only socket in the apartment, no extension wiring, and the only other connected device is a DECT phone.

Sorry, yes you have, Bank Holiday afternoon innit.
At a guess DLM has capped the sync rate down, highway you need to establish is why ? Is the line noise free ?
If it is capped I would have expected to see a higher downstream SNR.

Standard User cheshire_man
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 19:51:04
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Haven't done a quiet line test with a corded phone - will take one with when I next go over - I can hear no noise when I ring them, but that's by no means conclusive.

I clearly need to talk to Eclipse to see if the line is capped in some way.

Tony
Happily running Windows 10 Pro on both desktop and laptop
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 30-May-16 20:07:12
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
Those stats look very wrong. The upload speed is about what you'd expect (perhaps a tad low), but the download is dreadful. It is not consistent with the attenuation. A few possibilities come to mind

1) there is still something wrong with the domestic wiring. I know you've said it's a single socket with no extensions, but it's as well to absolutely double check everything and trace it back to where the phone line enters the premises. Downloads speeds are much more vulnerable to bad wiring that upload.

2) The capping thing has been known (at line rates). There is a fixed one that matches what was the old fixed 256kbps. I seem to recall it was 288kbps, but could be wrong. It's a possibility, but I think the SNR margin is to low to explain a discrepancy of approaching 4mbps. I'd have expected the downstream SNR margin to be possibly into double figures.

3) There's a lot of noise on the line. Is the voice clear? Is the line stable, does it drop out a lot (there may be a log file showing resyncs - if it does resync, is it consistently bad?).

4) Possibly the router/modem is faulty, or the cable or microfilter. If you've got access to a different ADSL modem/router, then it's a good idea to get that to sync up and see if it gets the same results. Also, whilst you're at it, make sure the router firmware is up-to-date if that's user updateable.

5) there could be an issue in the OR network, possibly a bridge tap (which OR shouldn't have) or other issue.

6) it could be a linecard fault (no easy way to check that)

Also, has it always been this slow? If it's deteriorated suddenly then that suggests an emerging fault.

If everything else fails, then it would have to be reported to the ISP. If it's that far from expectations (and I'd check the expected rate from the BT Wholesale checker if that's possible), it need an engineer visit.
Standard User ggremlin
(experienced) Mon 30-May-16 20:09:47
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
I have seen similar oddities on a sky adsl line, and that was the modem (netgear,) failing *

*failed capacitors
Standard User cheshire_man
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 20:57:37
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
Those stats look very wrong. The upload speed is about what you'd expect (perhaps a tad low), but the download is dreadful. It is not consistent with the attenuation. A few possibilities come to mind

1) there is still something wrong with the domestic wiring. I know you've said it's a single socket with no extensions, but it's as well to absolutely double check everything and trace it back to where the phone line enters the premises. Downloads speeds are much more vulnerable to bad wiring that upload.
As it's a block of retirement apartments goodness knows where it enters the building. I can only go by what I can see and measure in my friends' apartment.
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
2) The capping thing has been known (at line rates). There is a fixed one that matches what was the old fixed 256kbps. I seem to recall it was 288kbps, but could be wrong. It's a possibility, but I think the SNR margin is to low to explain a discrepancy of approaching 4mbps. I'd have expected the downstream SNR margin to be possibly into double figures.

3) There's a lot of noise on the line. Is the voice clear? Is the line stable, does it drop out a lot (there may be a log file showing resyncs - if it does resync, is it consistently bad?).
I've never heard them mention drop outs or similar. When I looked at the stats today while I didn't explicitly note the uptime I saw it and I have no recollection of it being a low figure. I've never heard noise on the line but will do a quiet line test with a corded phone when I can.
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
4) Possibly the router/modem is faulty, or the cable or microfilter. If you've got access to a different ADSL modem/router, then it's a good idea to get that to sync up and see if it gets the same results. Also, whilst you're at it, make sure the router firmware is up-to-date if that's user updateable.
I can try a different microfilter and cable, and also an old non-wireless Netgear router that I keep as a standby and that performs well on my line.
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
5) there could be an issue in the OR network, possibly a bridge tap (which OR shouldn't have) or other issue.

6) it could be a linecard fault (no easy way to check that)

Also, has it always been this slow? If it's deteriorated suddenly then that suggests an emerging fault.
They only moved into the apartment in January 2015 so can't really say for certain one way or another. I have recollection of talking to Eclipse about their line speed and I think it was from their new home rather than their old one, and Eclipse tweaking something that gave a speed increase; but to be honest I can't be absolutely certain on this. The ISP, router and hardware (not the PLAs) are the same as at their old home, less than 1 mile away.
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
If everything else fails, then it would have to be reported to the ISP. If it's that far from expectations (and I'd check the expected rate from the BT Wholesale checker if that's possible), it need an engineer visit.
I've emailed them to see if they can run the BT Wholesale checker but it may be too much for them.

Tony
Happily running Windows 10 Pro on both desktop and laptop
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 30-May-16 21:32:19
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
To be clear, by BT Wholesale Checker I'm talking about the availability checker which gives a speed estimate (although it doesn't seem to be working just at the moment). You should be able to run that yourself.

https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 22:41:33
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Re: Very poor download speed - 0.1Mbps bursting to 0.2Mbps


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
possibly a bridge tap

A bridge tap is going to be more of a problem on an FTTC service ...... and in it's true sense as a fault, I agree, you don't get them on Openreach services.

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