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Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 14:52:27
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DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[link to this post]
 
Any ideas please - like many I am at wits end ref BT and problem solving

Three different DECT phones
Four different ADSL Microfilters
All sockets tried including the Openreach Master Test socket
Whether BT Hub 5 is connected or not

The issue is that without the ADSL filter line is quiet and normal
With a filter there is a whistle/oscillation on the line affecting both ends of a call.

Two BT engineer visits plus work checking the exchange and associated lines all so far
have not fixed the issue.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Mar-17 15:33:13
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Try double filtering.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:10:55
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
What happens if a normal wired phone is used at the mast test socket with a filter and nothing else?

Michael Chare


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Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:22:31
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Try double filtering.


Thanks - tried double and triple filters - no change
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:23:50
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
What happens if a normal wired phone is used at the mast test socket with a filter and nothing else?


Thanks - an ordinary phone has no whistle at all with or without the filter(s)
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:36:51
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
"Three different DECT phones"

Is that "Three different BASE units" (each with "cordless DECT handsets") connecting to the phone line?
Or
"One BASE unit" with three cordless DECT hand sets?

--------------

I have two working Base units, the older one having three identical handsets designed for it.

The other newer different Base unit has one handset which came with it; and two intermediate age handsets which originally had their own Base Unit.

The newer Base Unit has an Answering Machine facility etc, which works fully with its own single hand set.

Whilst the two intermediate handsets are working on that newer Base Unit for basic facilities; but do not handle the additional AM etc.

Another aspect is that those two handsets do display the incoming numbers (and names) if in their own directories, if one attempts a recall of earlier incoming calls etc, "Not available" appears on their displays.

The newer Base Unit and associated handset were a "blindly-bought" Christmas present, hence the complications and convolutions.

-------------

Whilst experimenting to reach the present configuration, I also had the intermediate Base Unit working.

During that relatively short period, with three Base Units working, I did not observe any untoward whistles etc.

This may or may not have been that in effect, all of the internal PHONE side comes through one VDSL Filter at the ancient Master socket, then each working/employed phone socket around the house also has a VDSL or ADSL Filter as well.

So all the working PHONE connections are double-filtered.

The BB connection is by an Ethernet cable, from the Master Socket VDSL Dangly Filter, "direct" to the EE Brightbox 2 Modem/Router.

Edited by eckiedoo (Sat 04-Mar-17 16:39:31)

Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:43:49
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - yes 3 different DECT base stations - two have answer machines included in them and one does not.

I don't know if this added fact would help:-

Jan 19th overnight the phone line went dead - by morning it was running again and from then on this whistle/oscillation has existed.
BT say that nothing would have happened overnight and seem unable to track any line incidents that night.
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:45:58
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Further clarification:-

Only one base unit is connected at any one time. I have simply used three to test the problem and prove the phone is not at fault.

Thanks again
Standard User eckiedoo
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Mar-17 16:56:45
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried removing all of the ADSL Filters; but leaving all of the Base Units etc connected?

If "Yes"; and "No whistle" and BB works normally etc, then there is no reason for not operating in that manner.

Otherwise re-fitting, one at a time etc?

Similarly with the DECT Base Units?


Although I have not had similar problems on phones etc, I have found that when testing on a convoluted mix such as this, it can be useful to prepare a table of all (?) the combinations that would be needed to thoroughly test, ticking each one off, as I proceed.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 04-Mar-17 17:14:37
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
I think what should have been asked was if you used the same power supply for the three DECT units, or the power supply that came with each. If you just used the one then that could be the problem.

Also is the DECT base connected at the master or at an extension?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Mar-17 17:19:23
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
Jan 19th overnight the phone line went dead - by morning it was running again and from then on this whistle/oscillation has existed.
BT say that nothing would have happened overnight and seem unable to track any line incidents that night.
Is any of the phone line overhead and possibly running near trees?

Michael Chare
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 04-Mar-17 20:13:21
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Panasonic dect phones perchance ?

Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 21:00:12
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I think what should have been asked was if you used the same power supply for the three DECT units, or the power supply that came with each. If you just used the one then that could be the problem.

Also is the DECT base connected at the master or at an extension?


Thanks -

to re-iterate - only one DECT base is used - I have three available so I can test the issue.
The problem exists with all three DECT bases.
The power supply used is the one supplied with each DECT base
The Master socket and the test socket behind it have been used as well as various sockets in the house.
All exhibit the same issue no matter what.
Two of the DECT bases are BT brand - 8500 and 3760 the third is a Response technology company item.
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 21:10:21
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
Jan 19th overnight the phone line went dead - by morning it was running again and from then on this whistle/oscillation has existed.
BT say that nothing would have happened overnight and seem unable to track any line incidents that night.
Is any of the phone line overhead and possibly running near trees?


Phone lines underground but complicated.
I am in a retirement village.
BT line comes into the main centre - is then cabled to a communications centre and then on into a block of 4 flats. And to make matters worse a third party cable firm is responsible for the internal wiring.

Both BT and the third party firm have checked cabling hey are responsible for and declared it faultless!
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sat 04-Mar-17 21:48:29
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Re-Explanation Of The Issue and Tests Carried out

Hi folks thanks for all the input so far – thought I would summarise the problem with all the information teased out so far.

The property is a two bedroom flat/apartment in a retirement “village” with six phone sockets “star wired” from the incoming line which has an Openreach master socket on it.

Cables are all underground in conduits.

Important – there was absolutely no issue at all here for 12 months, then one night the line was dead overnight and was back in service next day. That is when this issue began.

BT cable comes into the “Main House” basement and from there through a multicore cable it runs to a small communications building. From that building it runs through conduits to the flat.
There are multiple points of punch down cable connections along the route.

To complicate matters, BT are responsible for part of the cable run and a third party cable company for the cabling on site. Both have had engineers here to check the line and both can find no fault.

I use just one DECT system – a BT 8500 with four handsets.
To rule its potential failure out, I purchased a BT 3560 single handset system to use for testing.
I also have a Response Ltd DECT 2 handset system.

I have used each system in turn one at a time – with its own power supply to test for the fault.

I have tested on various sockets and most importantly on the TEST socket behind the Openreach Master socket unit.

The fault exists with all of them, albeit perhaps a little quieter on one compared to another.

]The fault:-

Connected with an ADSL filter the whistle/oscillation exists at both ends of any telephone call.
Connected without an ADSL filter all is well – no problem.
Broadband BT Hub5 can be connected or not it makes no difference.
A filter is needed to control the ADSL signal hiss and double the speed of the connection.
I have tried four filters – two at the more expensive end and recommended and two cheaper ones.

That’s it.

Any ideas at all?

And thanks for the interest so far.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 04-Mar-17 21:53:39
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried changing the wirless channel on the homehub?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 04-Mar-17 22:01:25
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
... with six phone sockets “star wired” from the incoming line which has an Openreach master socket on it.
Star wired from the back of the faceplate, or star-wired before the incoming line reaches the master socket?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Mar-17 23:51:28
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
If you connect both a wired phone and a DECT phone can you hear the whistle using the wired phone, and does it make any difference whether the DECT phone is on or off hook?

What happens if you remove the front of the master socket, but leave the phones as above still plugged in. Can you hear any whistle if the DECT phone is off hook?

PS Google found this.

Michael Chare

Edited by Michael_Chare (Sun 05-Mar-17 00:02:24)

Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 07:59:17
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Have you tried changing the wirless channel on the homehub?


The problem exists whether the hub is connected or not - on or off
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 08:00:15
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
... with six phone sockets “star wired” from the incoming line which has an Openreach master socket on it.
Star wired from the back of the faceplate, or star-wired before the incoming line reaches the master socket?


Star wired after the backplate
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 08:13:38
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
If you connect both a wired phone and a DECT phone can you hear the whistle using the wired phone, and does it make any difference whether the DECT phone is on or off hook?

What happens if you remove the front of the master socket, but leave the phones as above still plugged in. Can you hear any whistle if the DECT phone is off hook?

PS Google found this.


More and more fascinating - I have just tried your suggestions and this is what happens:-

Wired phone initiate connection first DECT phone on hook - no whistle
DECT phone off hook to join call - no whistle

DECT phone initiate call - wired phone on hook - whistle
Put wired phone off hook - DECT phone still off hook - no whistle
In fact the whistle switches on and off in the DECT phone earpiece as the wired phone is put on hook and off hook repeatedly.
There is no situation where the whistle occurs on he wired phone.

And further test show that with TWO DECT phones attached to the line when one phone is off hook the line whistles - when both DECT phones are off hook whistle stops.

Hmm!

Edited by Shadoogie (Sun 05-Mar-17 08:44:27)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Mar-17 09:23:28
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
OK, you say you have had a couple of visits from Openreach, have any of these engineers changed the LIC (the port the voice comes from in the exchange) ? As this would nowbe my first instinct.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 05-Mar-17 11:55:23
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
... with six phone sockets “star wired” from the incoming line which has an Openreach master socket on it.
Star wired from the back of the faceplate, or star-wired before the incoming line reaches the master socket?
Star wired after the backplate
LOL

That doesn't answer the question. We don't know which side you are calling "after".

Is the star wiring the exchange side of the test socket, or is it attached to the faceplate that plugs into the test socket? You may not realise it, but this is an extremely important question.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 14:07:22
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Sorry not to be clear.

The star wiring is attached to the faceplate - not the exchange side.

Thanks
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 14:08:34
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that suggestion.

I will put it to Openreach on their next visit or phone call.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 05-Mar-17 14:54:58
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Did you read my google link, especially the first and last pages which describe what looks like the same fault and its fix?

Michael Chare
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 05-Mar-17 15:17:23
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Looks like your setup, after the line issue, doesn't like cordless phones. It's only a suggestion but as you have 6 extensions can you just buy 4 corded phones and use them?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 05-Mar-17 15:18:44
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Thanks smile.

Now to what worries me about that. (If the star wiring had been the other side then that is a known disaster setup. But it isn't so we can look at this one).

You say six extensions star-wired off the faceplate. That means terminal 2 has six wires in, terminal 5 also has six wires, and terminal 3 may also have six wires.

Is that really what you have, as I'm fairly sure if it is you will have bad contacts that could cause trouble. Whether it could cause what you are getting I don't know, but others in the thread might.

The more common setup is what is called daisy-chaining, where one extension is connected to the faceplate, (either two or three wires), then the second extension is connected to the first, the third to the second, and so on.

Do you have anything connected to any extensions? If so, what?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 15:37:27
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
OK thanks - now we get into the area where I cannot help much.

The flat is new and was wired by a telecoms company but not BT.
Until last week there was no "Master Socket" at all.
Wire came in from a "comms" building and fed into a surface box on the wall from which it seems all wires leave to all over the flat from a load of punch down connections.
Openreach interrupted the incoming wire to fit the Master Socket last week and from there the feed went back in to the multi wired box.
It is definitely star connected and not wired from socket to socket - same in all these flats here and confirmed a good while ago by a BT engineer I was chatting to. Clearly BT engineers do not like this wiring type but it cannot be changed as this is controlled by retirement company from whom we lease the properties.

All I can say is that up to middle of January this year and for the previous 12 months there has been no issue with the phones at all - so the crazy wiring worked but something has been disturbed beyond this flat to cause this issue. Cable joint accidentally disturbed whilst connecting some one else? I don't know. Could a dodgy joint cause this?

Nothing is connected to any extension sockets - just the Hub5 and phone on one socket with a filter. And even when I separate these there is no difference to the problem - also I can remove the hub completely and still there is a whistle on the line.

Edited by Shadoogie (Sun 05-Mar-17 15:41:17)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 05-Mar-17 15:51:54
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, which socket is the hub5 connected to?
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 15:59:39
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
The HUB5 and phone are usually connected to the same socket using an ADSL filter.

But during this testing process different sockets have been used including the Master socket and the Test socket. Also the Hub5 has been removed entirely from the system. The whistle is present no matter what.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:05:10
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
OK thanks - now we get into the area where I cannot help much.
But in the rest of this post you help a lot smile. Don't under-rate yourself.
The flat is new and was wired by a telecoms company but not BT.
Until last week there was no "Master Socket" at all.
Wire came in from a "comms" building and fed into a surface box on the wall from which it seems all wires leave to all over the flat from a load of punch down connections.
Openreach interrupted the incoming wire to fit the Master Socket last week and from there the feed went back in to the multi wired box.
As the BT engineers say, not ideal, but not likely to cause the problem you have.

I was worried about six wires into each of the relevant connectors on the faceplate.
Cable joint accidentally disturbed whilst connecting some one else? I don't know. Could a dodgy joint cause this?
That I don't know sorry. I was purely worrying about the star wiring, which as I said would have been a severe problem if the exchange side of the test socket, and these little IDC connectors on the faceplate if they had six wires each in.
Nothing is connected to any extension sockets - just the Hub5 and phone on one socket with a filter. And even when I separate these there is no difference to the problem - also I can remove the hub completely and still there is a whistle on the line.
To me that sounds as though Zarjaz's contribution stands a chance of being the next step. Though a couple of thoughts:

1) Are you always using the same phone wire to connect between the phone bases and the master or test socket? If so, try a different one.

2) (This one is unlikely but I want to rule it out). Are you also using a plug-in phone extension cable to reach the master, instead of just a standard short wire?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:06:57
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
I can't see the reason for the master socket. Why was it fitted?
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:11:38
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I can't see the reason for the master socket. Why was it fitted?


Well it lets me access the BT line directly removing connection to all the other sockets in the flat.

But 'twas not my idea - the phone engineer decided to do it.

Thanks
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:16:25
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
To me that sounds as though Zarjaz's contribution stands a chance of being the next step. Though a couple of thoughts:

1) Are you always using the same phone wire to connect between the phone bases and the master or test socket? If so, try a different one.

2) (This one is unlikely but I want to rule it out). Are you also using a plug-in phone extension cable to reach the master, instead of just a standard short wire?


1 ) No - I have used now four different DECT phones (used another today!) each with its own telephone connection wire and power supply.
2) I connected the DECT base unit directly to the test socket no extension wires involved.

Thanks

One query how do you get an engineer to listen to the idea that Zarjaz has suggetsed? !!
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:25:00
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Did you read my google link, especially the first and last pages which describe what looks like the same fault and its fix?


So sorry missed this completely.
Have now read it - funnily enough I had seen this posting from 2010 before i joined this forum.
Trouble is it is not clear how BT actually fixed their problem. A lot of gear seems to have been changed at the exchange - I willpoint the next engineer I see at this post.

Many thanks
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:44:32
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
sorry if you already tried this but if you remove the faceplate on the master and connect the dsl filter to the test socket and the modem and the dect base to the filter, what happens?
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 16:50:14
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
sorry if you already tried this but if you remove the faceplate on the master and connect the dsl filter to the test socket and the modem and the dect base to the filter, what happens?


Thanks and yes as stated in the thread this has been tried and the results exactly the same.

So in my limited grasp of things I have ruled out all the wiring in the flat - and the presence or not of the Hub on the line.

The whistle is there - if I attach another DECT phone base or a wired phone and put off hook the whistle stops - like needing two phones on the line to stop whistle.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Mar-17 20:20:56
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
See if your voice provider will raise a fault, noisy maybe, when the engineer attends demonstrate the noise, then suggest if the PQ test is OK that it might be the LIC, or maybe check if the TAMS (if on the circuit) ties are recently moved on to the 'new style' blocks ? These are proving problematic in some exchanges. If not, try a LIC change, may be able to replicate the noise by by putting an artificial load on the line, cobble together a couple reels of exchange jumper and stick an NTE on there to test again.

Good luck.

Edited by Zarjaz (Sun 05-Mar-17 21:40:02)

Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Sun 05-Mar-17 21:10:35
Print Post

Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
See if your voice provider will raise a fault, noisy maybe, when the engineer attends demonstrate the noise, then suggest if the PQ test is OK that it might be the LIC, or maybe check if the TAMS (if on the circuit) ties are recently moved on to the 'new style' blocks ? These are proving problematic in some exchanges. If not, try a LIC change, may be able to replicate the noise by by putting an artificial load on the line, cobble together a couple reels of exchange jumper and stink an NTE on there to test again.

Good luck.


Many thanks - I will do that and I will report back any progress.

Thanks to all - very inspiring.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 05-Mar-17 21:18:49
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Do old NTEs stink? wink tongue

Surely just old men!

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 05-Mar-17 21:30:00
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I can't see the reason for the master socket. Why was it fitted?
I've only just seen the point of that post blush.

If there is an NTE5 already in the flat, ouch! If there is no NTE5 at all, then what?

So presumably there is an NTE5B in the Comms room. Or maybe even an NTE5A. ([paranoid] Which makes snooping a fun game. Especially if there are any disagreements between tenants and landlord [/paranoid]).

Maybe someone knows if two NTE5s on the line could cause this whistle. I doubt it, but I'm just a bod.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Mar-17 21:40:53
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Sorted. Ta.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Mar-17 21:44:48
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Two NTE's is regarded as 'poor practice'.....

but never seen it causing a problem whenever encountered

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Mar-17 21:47:29
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
But why would it suddenly 'stop liking the OP's set up' ?

Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Mar-17 01:04:39
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It makes me wonder whether the DECT phone and filter can be tested when connected in the comms room, with the extra wire to the home disconnected.

That might show whether the problem occurs with just BT wiring.

Otherwise, the basic question is ... what creates whistles? Unless it is a noise being actively created, the answer is surely from some form of tuned resonant feedback from an amplifier. You would presume that adding a filter alters the resonant frequency, thereby making it audible. Having two phones connected makes a subtle change to that resonance, making it inaudible again.

On the other thread, someone opined about sidetone - which is a deliberate feedback mechanism. I wonder if this can be tested by using a mute button on the handset - which ought to disconnect the microphone, and stop the feedback.

If this is the case here, then almost any change to the "tuning" components of the circuit - resistance, capacitance or inductance.
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Mon 06-Mar-17 13:29:54
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
It makes me wonder whether the DECT phone and filter can be tested when connected in the comms room, with the extra wire to the home disconnected.

That might show whether the problem occurs with just BT wiring.

Otherwise, the basic question is ... what creates whistles? Unless it is a noise being actively created, the answer is surely from some form of tuned resonant feedback from an amplifier. You would presume that adding a filter alters the resonant frequency, thereby making it audible. Having two phones connected makes a subtle change to that resonance, making it inaudible again.

On the other thread, someone opined about sidetone - which is a deliberate feedback mechanism. I wonder if this can be tested by using a mute button on the handset - which ought to disconnect the microphone, and stop the feedback.

If this is the case here, then almost any change to the "tuning" components of the circuit - resistance, capacitance or inductance.


Just tried muting - no difference.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 06-Mar-17 19:24:10
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
No idea. But if using corded phones only and no noise then it is a work around.

Everyone is guessing and the issue sounds like it will require a decent engineer to solve the issue.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Tue 07-Mar-17 11:20:17
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
No idea. But if using corded phones only and no noise then it is a work around.

Everyone is guessing and the issue sounds like it will require a decent engineer to solve the issue.


Thanks to all for input

I have another engineer visit scheduled for Thursday 9th March.
I will push the issue of testing the DECT phone directly on the BT line in th comms room so ruling out all of the non-BT wiring in this place.
Then hopefully will go from there.
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Fri 10-Mar-17 09:04:04
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Shadoogie:
In reply to a post by broadband66:
No idea. But if using corded phones only and no noise then it is a work around.

Everyone is guessing and the issue sounds like it will require a decent engineer to solve the issue.


Thanks to all for input

I have another engineer visit scheduled for Thursday 9th March.
I will push the issue of testing the DECT phone directly on the BT line in th comms room so ruling out all of the non-BT wiring in this place.
Then hopefully will go from there.


Problem SOLVED

Engineer was new into the job by only few months - young man with excellent approach.
His first move was to fit an Openreach adsl splitter plate at the master socket.
Whistle still present.
He then pulled the wires out of the plate that fed to the star wired extensions.
Whistle gone.
Replaced the wires - with difficulty in those new compression fittings and reversed their polarity.
Whistle stayed gone.
Brilliant - only trouble is I have the router/hub in a broom cupboard with no power socket, but I am sorting that shortly and using powerline adaptors to feed the LAN signal to my TV and BT box location.

Thanks for the suggestions and help guys - just brilliant!

Geoff
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 10-Mar-17 12:18:35
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
"He then pulled the wires out of the plate that fed to the star wired extensions.
Whistle gone."

This bit confused me. I thought some testing was done in the test socket so no extensions should have been connected but the whistle was still present.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Shadoogie
(newbie) Fri 10-Mar-17 21:41:18
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
"He then pulled the wires out of the plate that fed to the star wired extensions.
Whistle gone."

This bit confused me. I thought some testing was done in the test socket so no extensions should have been connected but the whistle was still present.


I also am confused - I assumed the "TEST" socket behind the face plate isolated all extension wiring..
The previous BT engineer who fitted the master socket opened a grey wall box containing a multitude of punched in cables.One pair carried the phone line into the box and the rest were presumable the termination points of all the extensions in the flat - star wired from this box.
He released the in-coming pair and fed it into the new master socket then fed a pair back out to the box where the original pair went.
At this point nothing was fixed.
The last engineer replaced the face plate with an ADSL splitter plate. Then he pulled the wires off that went to the grey box and issue solved. In replacing those wires the polarity was reversed and problem solved.
I must assume that somehow the test socket behind the plate was not disconnected from the internal wiring - but I am only guessing as I do not fully understand how all this works.

So again - fixed (somehow) and thanks to all
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 10-Mar-17 23:09:27
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Re: DECT Phones & ADSL Microfilters & Whistles


[re: Shadoogie] [link to this post]
 
Did the wire from the big splitter box go to the wall bit of the master socket, ot the faceplate at the bottom of the front, which comes off and has connectors on it?

If it went to the faceplate I would expect it to have been OK, but maybe with reversed polarity. If the faceplate wasn't connected to anything, that is the splitter box was connected behind the test socket, that was the problem. Also costing a lot of speed I would expect.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65702/13958Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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