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Standard User Taziir1
(newbie) Sun 14-May-17 01:07:26
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Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to faceplate?


[link to this post]
 
Hi, I've recently moved in to a property built 2 years ago and am trying to solve slow broadband (with Origin).

I believe that there has been dodgy wiring done when the property was first built to add an extension socket. Please can you guys take a look and advise what options I might have here?

The property is rated to get 4mb but the router is achieving less that half this.
The property has been built with a master socket at the front and an extension socket in an upstairs room, with wiring is embedded in the walls.

I've connected a router & phone via a single microfilter at the master socket only. There are no other devices connected and I do not use the extension socket.

I thought the poor speeds would be due to the extension, so I decided to test speeds through the test socket. When I removed the faceplate, there appears to be multiple sets of wires directly connected to it

I cannot get a dial tone or BB connection in the test socket.

What concerns me is that when the face plate is removed from the master socket, I still get a dial-tone and BB connection through the faceplate!

This is a picture of the socket with face plate removed:

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/taziir/Socke...

Neither of the two thicker white cables at the back of the master socket seem to be directly wired in to anything except the faceplate.

I intended to disconnect the extension cable but I feel something is very wrong with the wiring and my knowledge it too limited to manage this.

Questions:
Is this setup normal for a recent build with an extension, or am I correct that this is a dodge job?
Has the incoming line been rewired directly in to the faceplate, making any DIY fix risky?
Would BT engineers likely charge to re-wire the incoming cabling back to how it should be?

Many thanks for your help
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 01:36:46
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
Looking at the picture it appears that the incoming line is wired directly to the faceplate, and that would be the case if the faceplate still works with a telephone in it.

Who is your telephone provider? I would imagine there may or may not be a charge to put that mess right and a lot depends on who you ask, ISP or telephone provider.

My ISP got me a new underground feed and master socket but I was lucky I had a good engineer and they dug my drive up without cost because BT had put an overhead wire underground and I was losing about 13m sync. due to the cable.

Hopefully, one of our resident forum Engineers will come along and advise further on which path to take.

Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and TP-Link WD9970 on 80 Meg LLU Fibre
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Current Sync: 68696/18766
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-May-17 02:18:38
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
I agree that is a master socket, but strongly suspect there is another somewhere. Possibly in the loft or a utility cupboard. None of those wires are from an incoming BT cable.

Thinking further, is there one of these on an external wall? If so, that's an external NTE and some clot has installed the one you are looking at. Probably so they had a test socket to test through. Wrong move! wink

In the short term, I suggest if that middle terminal with the two orange wires is terminal 3, which I'm sure it will be, (but!), gently lift them out of the connectors, and separate them. Be very careful not to disturb the wires on T2 and T5! Do not cut the orange wires.

One orange wire will be going to the external NTE if there is one, or another somewhere as above, and the other to the extension. It is an unnecessary wire for nearly all installation these days, but still fitted as standard in case it is needed. In your case it is not needed as long as you have a decent modern phone or decent microfilter. It is a ring wire, to make old-fashioned or the occasional junk modern one ring.

The orange wires are notorious for costing up to 2Mbps on ADSL 2+ and a lot more on FTTC. They need to be disconnected from each other to shorten the length from your master to the one that the incoming wire from BT is connected to. Ideally they are disconnected at the first master.

When you put the faceplate back on, be careful no exposed copper wire touches any other or any other metal. As things are you can test the speed with the faceplate off through its front before putting it on.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 14-May-17 09:52:33)


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Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-May-17 02:43:10
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Seconded I started writing the same smile
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 07:23:28
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
What you have is fairly common in new build properties where the line installs were done by contractors prior to there being dial tone to work with .....

It is easily fixed with the correct tools and some savvy .... however this involves working on the rear of the NTE which is strictly Openreach territory .

Will Origin not raise an SFI fault for Openreach to attend ?

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 09:21:34
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Do not diturb the wires on 2 and 5 surely Bob ?

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-May-17 09:54:47
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Yowee! frown blush

Fixed thanks. The usual "brain reading what it knows it typed", rather than what the eyes see.

But I expect you agree the OP can do what I suggest in the short term. It could give him quite a bit more speed while he gets it sorted out properly.

The builders really fit two masters wired like that? There must surely be another as the incoming line doesn't have those colours does it?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 14-May-17 09:58:23)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 10:21:39
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The original link now seems bust so can't check again.

I bet one of the two pictured IS the feed .

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-May-17 10:39:18
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I'm more leaning towards external NTE based on the cables in the pic.

Is it common to connect to the faceplate then?
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 14-May-17 10:46:15
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Taziir1:
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/taziir/Socke...


Broken Link

Sorry, an unexpected error occurred.

Please try again or go back to the previous page.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-May-17 11:05:09
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Two blues into 2 or 5, and their white-blues into the other, two oranges into 3. The terminal block was on the right of the pic, with three connectors but I don't know whether 2 or 5 would be at the top, nor which colour was at the top. I think it was the blues.

Loads of other cores wrapped round the white outers.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-May-17 11:07:37
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Odd that. I wonder if the OP deleted it having realised he also provided a number of family photos?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 11:41:05
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Two blues into 2 or 5, and their white-blues into the other, two oranges into 3. The terminal block was on the right of the pic, with three connectors but I don't know whether 2 or 5 would be at the top, nor which colour was at the top. I think it was the blues.

Loads of other cores wrapped round the white outers.

Sounds like a plausible wiring system to me with the white as the A leg.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-May-17 13:13:30
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
So if there is an external junction box the bell wire wont actually be live? Perhaps stick an old phone into the phone socket and see if it rings?
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 14:42:09
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
It isn't the 'it being live' that is an issue, it is that 5 and 3 make a ringing circuit, so in terms of the DSL signal one leg is twice as long as the other, creating an imbalance.

[not well explained, but I knew what I meant]

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-May-17 15:21:19
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Surely only if there is a master elsewhere in the circuit? Or more precisely, if the incoming Openreach cable is connected to something other than this one? The incoming OR cable surely doesn't have these colours and construction? Or can it, and I have got it wrong?

If I'm right, then there must be at least three "sockets" in total, one of which may be an external NTE or the original NTE5A. The two sets of blue+blue/white, one of which could be the real NTE.

My theory ended up as there being an external NTE with the two cables we see being one from that and one to the extension.

But I have a feeling we have heard the last of the OP anyway.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-May-17 15:36:23
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Actually very well explained smile

I was just considering a simple way, in simple terms, of testing what's going on with that NTE and the bell wires - obviously you have seen NTE's wired up in such a way before but can we rule out the possibility that this NTE has simply been utilized as an extension socket, i.e. terminals on the back not used, and there is an actual NTE elsewhere on the property?

Edited by 4M2 (Sun 14-May-17 15:44:57)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-May-17 16:01:18
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Surely only if there is a master elsewhere in the circuit? Or more precisely, if the incoming Openreach cable is connected to something other than this one? The incoming OR cable surely doesn't have these colours and construction? Or can it, and I have got it wrong?


From an external junction box I've definitely got black cw1308 terminated on the back of the NTE5 - the cable comes directly through the wall to the back of the NTE5. If there was an internal run of more than a few feet then perhaps one would see white cw1308...
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 16:40:17
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Without having access to the kit in my bag o' tricks, the easiest option would be a noting of line stats as is, then an establishing of which pair carries dial tone, terminate that on the rear and look at stats again looking for improvements in ant and max attainable.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 16:43:17
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yep Bob, I understand your take on things too.

With no further input from the OP, I guess we'll never know.

Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-May-17 16:43:29
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Seems to be working...

but another copy of it.

http://scrn.at/fOlgo.png

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 16:46:16
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In many cases cabling in new builds is hidden in wall voids, so cable sheathing colour is immaterial.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-May-17 16:49:18
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Uno. smile

So looking again I can see the blue bands on the white wire.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-May-17 16:52:14
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Indeed it is working, Matt. Thanks for the heads-up smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Taziir1
(newbie) Sat 27-May-17 00:07:35
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi all,
Many thanks for your input and my apologies for the silence, I tend to travel a lot for work and don't get much time here.

In response to some of the questions earlier:

Banger - telephone provider?
* Origin Broadband ADSL 2 I assume, as I saw the line sync speed regrade several times in the first few days.
Apparently the property is linked to an FTTC exchange, which is oversubscribed and not accepting new orders...

Zarjaz - Will Origin not raise an SFI fault for Openreach to attend ?
* Based on the other responses, I'm still not clear whether the wiring is considered mine or belonging to Openreach and am nervous about poking around where I'm not 100% clear if it's my responsibility

RobertoS - External NTE?
*On the Outside wall a few feet away from the supposed master socket there is this box - is this an extnernal NTE?:

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/taziir/IMG_0...

I couldn't locate any other sockets inside the property that could be a master socket, although I did find an additional extension socket on the top floor. There is no overhead cabling in the estate so I'm positive I've already been dealing with the 1st socket inside the property

Regarding the orange middle cable, would this be as simple as carefully removing the twined orange cables, separating the two and then replace one at a time and checking the line stats (making sure not to touch the blue and blue/white)? Or can the orange cables be simply removed and not reconnected?

For additional info, these are the line stats reported by the router at the moment:
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/taziir/DSL-S...
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 27-May-17 07:13:56
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
The pictured external box is a BT66 just housing the junction between the UG feed and the lead in cable to your property.

I honestly think you should get Origin to raise an SFI, get someone out who can sort things out and provide a true NTE. I do not believe Origin could pass any charges to you because there is no demarcation point within your property.

Failing that, pull all the bell wires and don't reconnect them.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 27-May-17 09:40:30
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
The orange cables are the bellwire Zarjaz refers to. Normally they need to be removed from the master socket faceplate, but we don't know where that is or even if there is one.

I am saying to separate them because if one of them does continue to a true master then at least the overall length will be reduced. It is at the master it does most damage. It acts like a radio aerial, so the shorter the better in this case.

Do not reattach either of them. Do the same at every socket you can find.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63018/13016Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 27-May-17 09:41:14)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 27-May-17 11:25:10
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The orange cables are the bellwire Zarjaz refers to.

Yep, sorry .... should have said.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sat 27-May-17 12:46:17
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Re: Slow broadband - incoming line wired directly to facepla


[re: Taziir1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Taziir1:
On the Outside wall a few feet away from the supposed master socket there is this box


Very likely that the NTE has been incorrectly installed - should be a simple job for an OR engineer to rewire and get the test socket working at no cost to yourself.

Please be extremely careful when manipulating the faceplate if you decide to remove the orange bell wires and not cause the other wires to become detached or broken since I suspect a pair of them are a feed from the external junction box.
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