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Standard User konrado5
(regular) Thu 02-Aug-18 23:46:42
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My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.uk


[link to this post]
 
I have very unusual Hlog (attenuation per tones) on my ADSL2+ circuit.
https://s22.postimg.cc/tgbw5782p/hlogwitoutmask.png
I've discussed about it on many threads on forum.kitz.co.uk. However moderators haven't allowed me to write about my ideas.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22097.0.html
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22114.0.html
I hope on this forum I can write about it and I can explain why I think burakkucat is wrong in this post.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22097.msg37...

I realize that there are Hlogs precisions limits caused by granuality. However I think it weights in favour of my theory. Precisions limits cause that dip at ~110 tone is not noticable on other circuit Hlog. This Hlog have significantly smaller but the same measurement errors. Even my circuit had smaller than usual measurement errors at one day with one anomalous synchronization with SNR margin 15 dB and higher power output.
https://s22.postimg.cc/uvdgu397l/hlog15db.png
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17093.msg32...

This is visible when I attach two graphs on one coordinate systemts.
https://s22.postimg.cc/3ks5m6tg1/Double_Hlog2.png

Moreover I've discovered Hlin gives more accurate amplitude datas for first download tones.
https://files.fm/u/3q4d46rs
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 03-Aug-18 08:11:23
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
What reason do they give for censoring you?

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Standard User Realalemadrid
(member) Fri 03-Aug-18 10:34:46
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Because he's being banging on about it for years and has ignored numerous requests to stop pestering various forum members when they have done all they can to answer his questions.


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 03-Aug-18 12:01:25
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I have very unusual Hlog (attenuation per tones) on my ADSL2+ circuit.
Does the circuit work fine? As in sync speed and throughput?

If so, what's the worry? If not, have you discussed it with your ISP and possibly raised a fault?

Looks into history ….

Is that still Netia, in Poland? As stated in your October 2013 post in this forum on the same basic subject. I note you also had this 2014 thread and importantly, from November 2013:-
I'm not complain about my Internet connection however I'm very interested in details of ADSL2+ technology. Could someone explain my issues?
I haven't followed any of your links in your opening post here. I don't see the point if your line is performing reasonably well.

Importantly, the quote I gave answers my first question, and with it being something happening in Poland we are unlikely to know what your ISP or its carrier may have adjusted in their setup of the circuit.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 67025/12336Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Fri 03-Aug-18 14:04:48
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:
Because he's being banging on about it for years and has ignored numerous requests to stop pestering various forum members when they have done all they can to answer his questions.

It is not reason to censor me. It is harm for potential interested person. Uninterested person can omit my threads. I don't agree to cenzorship.
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Fri 03-Aug-18 14:05:49
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Circuit works fine but it is unusual and I am interested what is cause of unusual Hlog graphs and other unusual characteristics.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 03-Aug-18 14:29:38
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Have you compared it with other users' graphs from the same ISP on the same DSLAM, and similarly other users on the same ISP with an identical DSLAM but not the same one?

If not, you don't know it is unusual for that ISP.

Comparing it with any UK Hlogs is not relevant.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 67025/12336Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Fri 03-Aug-18 18:20:41
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
I'd like to edit my post however it is not possible. Therefore I send longer post as reply.

I've noticed on my ADSL2+ circuit unsusual Hlog.

https://s22.postimg.cc/tgbw5782p/hlogwitoutmask.png

There are many undulations. I've written a lot about it on forum.kitz.co.uk. They suggestes perhaps I have got circuit consisting of many sections with different gauges. However as I know this type of circuit is very widespread but I don't see so unregular Hlog on other circuits.

I've done much progress towards explaining this Hlog however on forum.kitz.co.uk moderators forbidden to continue writing about my research results. Therefore I can't defend my ideas against their counter arguments.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22097.0.html

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22114.0.html

I understand many people are not interested with my tenacious searching of answer but I think it is not reason to forbid me writing. Uninterested persons don't have to read my posts. Censorship is harm to potential interested person.



1. What was I explained?

I've discovered what causes through at tone ~55. It is caused by measurement errors. On the other circuit I've noticed small dip on the same tone.

https://s22.postimg.cc/pysdmc5qp/hlogdertyhwithmarke...

Furthermore, some day I had resynchronization and I and by mistake I was connected with target SNR margin 15 dB for donwstream and 17 db for upstream and other power output profile (18.9/12.4 dBm instead usual 18.6/12.1 dbM). By mistake because as I reconnected again I got again usual 6 dB SNR margin with usual power output. Then I had slightly more regular Hlog (weaker undulations).

https://s22.postimg.cc/uvdgu397l/hlog15db.png

This is a evidence of Hlog measurement errors (for example on tone ~55). It is noticable when I place two graphs on one coordinate system.

https://s22.postimg.cc/3ks5m6tg1/Double_Hlog2.png

One forum.kitz.co.uk user (burakkucat) has not agreed with my explanation. He emphasized limited accuracy of Hlog caused by granuality.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22097.msg37...

However I think it weights in favour of my theory. Precisions limits cause that dip at ~110 tone is not noticable on other circuit Hlog. This Hlog have significantly smaller but the same measurement errors. Even my circuit had smaller than usual measurement errors at one day.

https://s22.postimg.cc/uvdgu397l/hlog15db.png

This is visible when I attach two graphs on one coordinate system.

https://s22.postimg.cc/3ks5m6tg1/Double_Hlog2.png

2. What haven't I explained yet?

I've still not disovered what causes tone ~210 dip. It is not smaller on anomalous synchronization with more accurate Hlog.

https://s22.postimg.cc/uvdgu397l/hlog15db.png

However one day I had event which would be helpful. I've noticed sudden reconnection and change of attenuation values at the time of pavement resurfacing works. It was 23.5/20.2 dB instead usual 25.0/14.9 dB (usual on D-Link DSL-2740B). Probably more users were reconnected because I had SNR margin about 4 dB immediately after reconnection (instead 6 dB). Next day after that day I also had reconnection during pavement resurfacing work and attenuation came back to usual values. On day with unusual attenuation day Hlog was significantly different per some tones. I think some shock caused some ipairtment on some joint reflected signal differently than usually.

https://s22.postimg.cc/rrzvo3ish/onedayhlog.png

Following there are usual and onedayhlog on one coordinate system.

https://s22.postimg.cc/rrzvo3ish/onedayhlog.png

I suspect dip moved from tone ~210 to tone ~150.

Other interesting observations which could help explain cause of dip is that as I've shortened cables in my home installation I've noticed that as I expected attenuation per the most of tones was reduced however on some tones attenuation increased.

1. Red graph is Hlog with 12m long cable connected to master socket. Green graph is Hlog with 1m long cable connected to master socket. Attenuation with 1m long cable was slightly lower per tones 33 to around 180. It was also lower per tones 200 to 400. However, it was slightly higher per tones 180 to 240 and on the end of graph.

https://s22.postimg.cc/8hsv5177l/doublehloglongshort...

2. Red graph is 1m long cable connected to master socket. Green graph is Hlog when I've cut down 20-30m cable from box to master socket and moved master socket. Attenuation on shorter circuit is slightly lower per tones 33 to 180 and per tones 350 to 511. However it is higher per tones 190 to 240 and per tones 280 to 320.

https://s22.postimg.cc/v6i24n6lt/doublehlogshortvery...

3. Red graph is Hlog with 12m long cable connected to master socket before cutting down. Green graph is circuit after cutting down 20-30 m cable to master socket. Attenuation on very short circuit is lower with exception per tones 180 to 240. On these tones is higher attenuation.

https://s22.postimg.cc/vknzhfq7l/doublehloglongverys...

It is interesting becuase it seems to me that longer cable does not cause signal is less attenuated on any tone than it was attenuated when cable is shorter. Perhaps my impairtment causing Hlog undulations is related with this unusual observation.

Edited by konrado5 (Fri 03-Aug-18 18:23:56)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 03-Aug-18 19:09:39
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I understand many people are not interested with my tenacious searching of answer but I think it is not reason to forbid me writing. Uninterested persons don't have to read my posts. Censorship is harm to potential interested person.
I'm sure that many people will observe your wishes.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 65717/12459Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 05-Aug-18 09:09:20
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
You posted a link to a pirate website which was removed and you were warned. You then posted it again. And that was just the latest oncident. You've caused a load of grief to the site admins and upset many of the other regular contributors to the Kite forums.

I cannot understand why you were not banned earlier!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Sun 05-Aug-18 16:23:33
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
You posted a link to a pirate website which was removed and you were warned. You then posted it again. And that was just the latest oncident. You've caused a load of grief to the site admins and upset many of the other regular contributors to the Kite forums.

I cannot understand why you were not banned earlier!

I have understood wrongly what I can't do. I've thought that I can't post a pirate link to particular paper but I've thought that I can post a link to whole website enabling access to pirate documents.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 05-Aug-18 23:50:16
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
An interesting interpretation of what happened!

A moderator removed a link from one of your posts and you then reposted the exact same link.

The link you posted was to a website that openly describes itself as a pirate website.

For others reading who do not frequent the Kitz forums see here https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22116.msg37...

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 06-Aug-18 01:05:10
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
It is indeed that moderator removed link to pirate page and I have gave again link to pirate page. But at first time I gave link to particular document on pirate gateway. At second time I gave merely a link to whole pirate gateway. I believed giving link to whole pirate gateway for papers is not violating of forum rules.
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 06-Aug-18 01:07:02
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
I've sent to forum.kitz.co.uk admin mail with apologies for: 1) putting forum user on pressure to respond for my posts and 2) posting links to pirate site. However I don't understand why my threads are locked. It is censorship. Uninterested persons can ignore my posts.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Aug-18 08:21:26
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
The brief Kitz rules given in the Site Announcements board are very simple.

What part of
No links to pirate, illegal torrent or similar type sites which breach the DCMA for copyrighted material.
did you not understand?

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Mon 06-Aug-18 14:19:14
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I've sent to forum.kitz.co.uk admin mail with apologies for: 1) putting forum user on pressure to respond for my posts and 2) posting links to pirate site. However I don't understand why my threads are locked. It is censorship. Uninterested persons can ignore my posts.


Apart from people feeding the troll, what makes you think there is anyone here who has any interest? And if nearly everyone is uninterested, do you think that continued posting complaining about how badly you think you have been treated is going to garner any support for your position? Perhaps you are now deep enough into the hole that it would be sensible to stop digging.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Aug-18 11:06:32
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I've discussed about it on many threads on forum.kitz.co.uk. However moderators haven't allowed me to write about my ideas.


You have some rights to free speech under things like the European Convention on Human Rights. You do not have the right to exercise that right of free speech on Kitz. The moderators there can 'censor' you for any reason they see fit and have the absolute right to edit or delete your posts or account. It is a private website and all using it do so at the discretion of the site owner and, in turn, their appointed moderators.

If you disapprove of how they handle the site or don't get along with some 'regulars' simply don't post there. There's even the option to neither log in or even read the content on there. I have found that all of the above works just fine for me.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Tue 07-Aug-18 11:07:43)

Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 07-Aug-18 15:08:00
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I don't say moderators behaviour is illegal. I merely say it is not fair.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Aug-18 16:37:37
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I don't say moderators behaviour is illegal. I merely say it is not fair.


That's life.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Aug-18 17:34:11
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Would I be right in assuming that this thread has taken a similar course to those over on the other site?

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Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Aug-18 18:56:26
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gomezz:
Would I be right in assuming that this thread has taken a similar course to those over on the other site?
Similar, but because of the flagrant breach of the rules (twice!) and the serious consequences of his action becoming apparent to the site owner (see here for info on the totally unnecessary extra work he has caused) and a string of posts across multiple topics insisting we all assist him investigate his theories patience ran out and he has been banned (I gather he has then been pestering the site owner by email).

The main problem is his attitude - he demands others respond, instead of doing what is polite and just putting the ideas out there for people to respond to if they want to. If you look at his posting history he has been banging on about similar subjects since 2013, he rejects good information if he doesn't like it and has been warned on many occasions to stop being such a PITA. The problem is many of the knowledgable users on the Kitz forums are too good natured for their own sanity and have bent over backwards to make allowances for his condition.

On top of all this he isn't even a UK user (he is in Poland). I really can't understand why he wasn't banned ages ago!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 07-Aug-18 20:29:19
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
I would bear no grudges against kitz.co.uk moderators if they banned me for putting people on pressure to respond. However they banned me after I was protesting against threads locking (censorship).
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Tue 07-Aug-18 21:28:36
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
If you are digging your hole vertically downwards you will eventually surface in New Zealand. Maybe you'll then be able to make your same complaint on one of their Discussion Boards.
Standard User richi
(member) Wed 08-Aug-18 11:19:58
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
If you are digging your hole vertically downwards you will eventually surface in New Zealand. Maybe you'll then be able to make your same complaint on one of their Discussion Boards.
Best. Reply. Evar.

3 km line on THTG: 17/1.2 Mb/s with Plusnet Business.
Previously: BT ISDN, Nildram, Plusnet, 186k, EFH, Be*, Plusnet (again), Pulse8, Sky.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 08-Aug-18 11:36:25
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
If you are digging your hole vertically downwards you will eventually surface in New Zealand. Maybe you'll then be able to make your same complaint on one of their Discussion Boards.
Specifically, some tiny islands belonging to it:- "The opposite side of the world to Warsaw is Waitangi, Chatham Islands, New Zealand".

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 67212/12130Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 08-Aug-18 22:27:23
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I once had someone ask if they could arrange a meeting with me at work the next day. I checked my (paper) desk diary (yes it was that long ago) and said "Ah! It's Waitangi Day".

"Ok, then what about the day after?"

laugh

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Sun 12-Aug-18 18:12:41
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Forum.kitz.co.uk moderators also have censoring other person.
"Minute by minute reports of all your fiddling with your hardware and software are becoming have become VERY boring.

Your posts do not help anyone and can lead to another novice thinking that what you are doing is the best way to get results, when, in fact, you are just messing about for no real reason.

As this thread is neither a 'Help and Advice Thread' (you are not helping anyone) nor a plea for help (you are just telling us of some of the trials that you are doing), I feel that, once again, your ramblings are getting no further forward.
You do not appear to take advice from experienced people (as some of your previous threads show), so to save forum space, I am locking this thread."
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,3299.msg834...

I can't accept that moderators lock threads if they think it is boring.

Edited by konrado5 (Sun 12-Aug-18 18:13:32)

Standard User TheInstaller
(newbie) Sun 12-Aug-18 20:50:56
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
They can do whatever they like and you can like it or lump it, either way, nothing will change.

Life is too short, move on....
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 12-Aug-18 23:14:11
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Maybe you ought to start a blog somewhere, as forums aren't the right place for what you want to post.

Maybe you should start a blog and wait for comments.
Whether you're passionate about a great cause, want to build on a fun hobby, or simply want a place to share photos and stories with friends and family, the best website builders offer powerful yet simple blogging tools to broadcast your unique vision. Look for added features such as 1-click social media integration and comment tools.
That's the opening text from this list of the top 10.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 67212/12130Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Aug-18 17:53:28
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
I cannot believe that you have dragged up a topic on the Kitz forums from 10 years ago!

Just how many hours have you spent trawling through all the topics on the Kitz forums just to find that topic so that you could post on here in an attempt to prove you've been treated unfairly? All you have succeeded in doing is proving how obsessive you are and why, after tolerating your impact on the other forum users for many years the moderators finally called time.

You've received zero sympathy on here and continuing to post isn't going to help.

Take the advice GonePostal gave you here: when you are deep in a hole stop digging.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 13-Aug-18 18:50:53
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
I don't say I am innocent. Indeed I have taken pressure on forum.kitz.co.uk users to respond on my post. I have even sent apologies to forum.kitz.co.uk admin. But it doesn't change the fact that forum.kitz.co.uk moderators censure some users. For example my thread was locked.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22097.0.html
I couldn't explained why I think burakkucat is wrong for other users (I understand burakkucat does not want to read).
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Mon 13-Aug-18 20:04:03
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
So what though? They can censor who ever they like. It's a privately owned and run website.
Make your own forum and then you can set any rules you want.

You weren't banned to censor you.
It was in part the constant harassing you do particularly to burakkucat.
Kitz asked you (very politely) a number of times to stop pressuring/prompting individual members for responses.

For over 5 years you have been routinely posting images of your Hlog and asking
"burakkucat do you think I have a bridge tap"
"burakkucat do you think I have this...."
"burakkucat do you think I have that...."
"burakkucat look I found a 10 year old image that looks faintly like my Hlog, do you think...."

It really isn't fair. I'm sure burakkucat has had recurring nightmares about your Hlog.

It wouldn't be so bad if you just posted and left it for anyone to post if they choose to, but you deliberately prompt him for answers over and over.
I think I can confidently say burakkucat has said all he has to say about your Hlog.

Then you posted link to a pirated document on a self proclaimed pirate website.
Kitz removed this post and explained to you why. She mentioned it was a pirate site and that in the past such things have put a black mark on the site with Google and that this was a considerable pain to resolve.

Then you posted a link to the exact same website a 2nd time. This time the site wasn't so lucky and got a DMCA takedown request and the site has been penalised for this.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 13-Aug-18 20:39:30
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
I agree totally with what John and the others have said, various forum members on Kitz have tried to help you, but you won't accept their answers and kept pushing, asking more and more questions, often about the same things which people have tried to explain, posting links to pirates sites even when asked not to, I'm very surprised you wasn't banned a long time ago.

As others have said, if you want freedom of speech start your own forum/blog/website, if you use other peoples forums then expect to abide by their rules, and if you don't then suffer the consequences!

As for the apology it came far too late, sometimes you can't just say sorry and expect it to be OK again.

After posting this thread on here I doubt very much that anybody will reply to you're posts - they really won't want to go down the same road as members on the Kitz forum have been.

People have also been banned from this forum as well, in fact all forums will ban members for all sorts of reasons.

Edited by R0NSKI (Mon 13-Aug-18 20:41:42)

Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 13-Aug-18 21:17:35
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
I am sorry that I've proved myself person harassing burakkucat and other forum members. Indeed, moderators have been asking me to not write "burakkucat: what do you think?". However I have thought moderators exaggerate situation. I have believed that my research benefits both me and burakkucat. I thought burakkucat is interestes with my posts however sometimes forget about theirs and thereby it is OK if I remind burakkucat of some unreplied post.

I am surprised my posts have been so very uninteresting. My Hlog is unusual and I have thought that burakkucat also would like to know what is cause.

" I think I can confidently say burakkucat has said all he has to say about your Hlog."
I have written so many posts about Hlog because I have been continously raising my knowledge. For example, in this thread I took burakkucat attention to curious featgure of my two Hlogs.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17093.msg32...
I have explained one feature of my Hlog (dip per ~55 tone) however I haven't been able to explain my discovery to burakkucat sufficiently clearly.
After clear message of burakkucat "I have nothing else to say on this subject. Please do not bring it up again." I decided to not write "burakkucat: what do you think?". Unfortunately moderators have locked my thread and prevented me from explaining to other potentially interested users why I think burakkucat is wrong and my theory is good.

It would be OK if moderators give me ban for putting forums users on pressure to respond. It is not OK that they lock threads. They banned me after I protested against locking threads.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 13-Aug-18 21:50:38
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Aren't there any broadband help sites in Poland?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 69319/12403Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 13-Aug-18 22:46:14
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Then you posted link to a pirated document on a self proclaimed pirate website.
Kitz removed this post and explained to you why. She mentioned it was a pirate site and that in the past such things have put a black mark on the site with Google and that this was a considerable pain to resolve.

Then you posted a link to the exact same website a 2nd time. This time the site wasn't so lucky and got a DMCA takedown request and the site has been penalised for this.

I apologize that I've posted link to pirate page two times. To justify my behaviour I want to say that I have understood wrongly what I can't do. I've thought I merely can't send link to particulat paper on pirate page. At second time I sent link to whole gateway enabling reading copyrighted documents. I've thought I can do it.
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 13-Aug-18 22:46:53
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Theare are polish forums about broadband. They also don't know what cauases this unusual Hlog.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Aug-18 22:47:24
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Aren't there any broadband help sites in Poland?
No doubt any such sites will have long since banned the poster who reminds me of Winnie the Pooh.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Aug-18 23:05:42
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Could you post a link to a recent post of yours on the Polish forum where you asked about this please - hopefully Google translate will help us out with this.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Mon 13-Aug-18 23:08:37
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
http://www.forum.neostrada.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=...
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3031816.html
Standard User TrickySpot
(newbie) Mon 13-Aug-18 23:10:08
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
"It really isn't fair. I'm sure burakkucat has had recurring nightmares about your Hlog."

LOL!!!

Sorry, I have nothing technical or constructive to add.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 13-Aug-18 23:22:51
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: TrickySpot] [link to this post]
 
Thinks ….
And chuckles.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 69319/12403Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Aug-18 23:29:34
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Interesting! I said recent but they are from 2015/2016 and I can see you nag people to answer/keep posting their log graphs in the same way as you have driven people mad on the Kitz forums.

Can you not accept that (a) people do not have an answer that will satisfy you and (b) no matter how many times you ask that won't change!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 14-Aug-18 00:40:00
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
Can you not accept that (a) people do not have an answer that will satisfy you and (b) no matter how many times you ask that won't change!

I have done significant progress and I believe if somebody with very deep technical knowledge will be cooperating with me it is possible to discover a kind of impairtment wihout JDSU or similar tools. Furthermore I think my recent activity was not asking questions. I have being explaining my observations to burakkucat and other forum users. It is frustrating they continously don't see things which I see. For example in this thread burakkucat has noticed one thing after some my posts explaining matter.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17093.msg32...
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Aug-18 05:53:00
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
Not going to read all the stuff. What is the actual service impact of this? Instability? Much lower sync than expected? Packet loss? Bad jitter?
Standard User dsergeant
(member) Tue 14-Aug-18 07:16:16
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
All I can say is that I have no idea what Hlog is, I don't post on kitz, and have not the slightest clue what all this is about. Why is this constant bitching in the 'technical issues' forum?

Edited by dsergeant (Tue 14-Aug-18 07:17:02)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Aug-18 08:54:47
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
He's been challenged on this over on Kitz. I'm pretty sure the answers are:

What is the actual service impact of this? None
Instability? No
Much lower sync than expected? No
Packet loss? No
Bad jitter? No

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 14-Aug-18 09:20:56
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Not going to read all the stuff. What is the actual service impact of this? Instability? Much lower sync than expected? Packet loss? Bad jitter?
From this thread smile.
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I have very unusual Hlog (attenuation per tones) on my ADSL2+ circuit.
Does the circuit work fine? As in sync speed and throughput?
In reply to a post by konrado5:
Circuit works fine but it is unusual and I am interested what is cause of unusual Hlog graphs and other unusual characteristics.
It seems to be an obsession, with no useful purpose and no possibility of his finding the solution without getting into something like formal education on the subject and in the end being able to research it with in-depth knowledge of the theory and problems of real-world implementation.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 69319/12403Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 14-Aug-18 10:26:31
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It's really sad that these people (I can think of others) get so obsessed over something that ultimately they can do nothing about, something that has no impact or minimal impact becomes an obsession which takes over their lives, and they unwittingly try and drag others down with them. Very sad, theres far more to life than hlogs and broadband.

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Aug-18 10:31:58
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
+1

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 14-Aug-18 11:03:29
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
if somebody with very deep technical knowledge will be cooperating with me
How much are you willing to pay? I'm sure there are some experts in the field that would gladly help you - usual rate I would guess is somewhere over £1500 per day. What you seem to be doing is insisting that experts with deep technical knowledge should help you solve something that is causing no issues and to provide that help for free. It appears nobody either has the knowledge or the will to help you on that basis. Offer to pay their time at the going rate and maybe someone out there with the right experience would offer to help.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Tue 14-Aug-18 13:34:47
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
have done significant progress and I believe if somebody with very deep technical knowledge will be cooperating with me it is possible to discover a kind of impairtment wihout JDSU or similar tools.


Highly unlikely. You've been posting your unusual Hlog for about 5 years. There's a reason why engineers carry a JDSU.

Your ISP won't send an engineer because your service works, perfectly.

None of us know the make up of the telephone network in Poland or the type/gauge of cables used. We have no idea how the history of telecoms has evolved over the years in Poland and what short-cuts they took comparable to using Aluminium in the UK network.

Furthermore I think my recent activity was not asking questions. I have being explaining my observations to burakkucat and other forum users. It is frustrating they continously don't see things which I see.


That's life. Not everyone is going to agree with you on everything. Getting frustrated about it won't help.

You need to stop obsessing over your Hlog.
If you must obsess over it, I recommend you find another place to do so.

There once was a boy from Poland.
His broadband worked.
The End.
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 14-Aug-18 14:49:47
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
have done significant progress and I believe if somebody with very deep technical knowledge will be cooperating with me it is possible to discover a kind of impairtment wihout JDSU or similar tools.


Highly unlikely. You've been posting your unusual Hlog for about 5 years.

And I've done significant progress. Unfortunately I have not a deep knowledge about transmission lines theory and thereby I've note explained all issues related to my Hlog. I have collected a lot of datas and I believe it is possible to discover a type of impairtment causing my unusual Hlog.
Your ISP won't send an engineer because your service works, perfectly.

It is a reason why I do my own research.

None of us know the make up of the telephone network in Poland or the type/gauge of cables used. We have no idea how the history of telecoms has evolved over the years in Poland and what short-cuts they took comparable to using Aluminium in the UK network.

As I know there are no significant differences.

Edited by konrado5 (Tue 14-Aug-18 15:57:23)

Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 14-Aug-18 14:57:07
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
It's really sad that these people (I can think of others) get so obsessed over something that ultimately they can do nothing about, something that has no impact or minimal impact becomes an obsession which takes over their lives, and they unwittingly try and drag others down with them. Very sad, theres far more to life than hlogs and broadband.

It's really sad that people are not interested with knowledge for itself. Unfortunately I've met nobody with scientific passion to xDSL technology.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 14-Aug-18 15:40:07
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
It's really sad that these people (I can think of others) get so obsessed over something that ultimately they can do nothing about, something that has no impact or minimal impact becomes an obsession which takes over their lives, and they unwittingly try and drag others down with them. Very sad, theres far more to life than hlogs and broadband.

It's really sad that people are not interested with knowledge for itself. Unfortunately I've met nobody with scientific passion to xDSL technology.
Perhaps "knowledge itself" about xDSL is not as important to the rest of us as it is to you. What is your interest in classical music between the 12th century and today? In particular Polish composers' music and biographies. For example Chopin, Penderecki, Lutoslawski, Górecki, Panufnik, and Syzmanowski to name the most famous. I enjoy the music of all of those.

As an EU citizen, do you know without looking it up or asking someone, who wrote the music that is the EU's "state" anthem? I do and expect several posters here do.

Have you visited Mozart's and Schubert's birthplaces and Mozart's huge apartment in Vienna? I have. Have you stood in awe in front of Monteverdi's tomb, stumbled across by accident? I have, and shall never forget it.

Have you read any of these by Polish authors? I haven't.

What do you know about astrophysics. Are you at all interested in the Parker Solar Probe? Do you even know what it is?

Have you started any threads anywhere about the nature of dark matter? Do you know what that is? What about quantum theory, and seeing as you are so keen on xDSL theory what about quantum computing?

Get real. Your broadband works. Use it to gain "knowledge itself" about the world as a whole. Don't expect those of us interested in other topics to want a deep knowledge of esoteric variances in your broadband when it doesn't even deleteriously affect the service you get from it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 69319/12403Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 14-Aug-18 15:41:43)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 14-Aug-18 16:07:05
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
The people you want will be working in the research parks at Universities or for the operators working with chipset manufacturers.

In the UK ADSL/ADSL2+ is NOW an old technology and while still used a lot of experience is fading away, certainly no scientific interest in pushing the ADSL/ADSL2+ technology

For a rate of €1500 a day am happy to sift through the data and being frank unless you have a real service impacting issue that is what the answer will be in many quarters.

EDIT to fix a typo

Edited by MrSaffron (Tue 14-Aug-18 17:49:56)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kitz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 14-Aug-18 17:59:29
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think you may have misunderstood what he wants. Its not anything specific with ADSL2+ but applies to all xDSL technology. :/

Basically he wants you to be able to identify from a simple hlog graph where there may be some slightly non perfect piece of copper/joint or miniscule defect on his line and what point.
Whilst someone with a trained eye may be able to see that there may for example be a bridge tap and even give an approximate length of the bridge tap from hlog. What it is impossible to determine from a single 2 dimensional graph, is where the problem is in the network.

His claim is that someone will be able to figure this out.. despite numerous technical documentation saying it isn't. Basically what he wants is the equivalent of a JDSU which can take several readings to build up an array of data, which then uses various algorithms to determine at what distance say the bridge tap occurs - this is not the same as length.

What he wants is possible if he goes out an buys a JDSU or similar and attaches it to his line. However, he refuses to spend money on one, so expects someone to be able to diagnose this from simple hlog provided by his router. B*cat has already coded something which allows him to plot the cartesian co-ordinates, but he is now wanting moon on a stick to do something which is patented technology (for free!) so he can run it on his line.

For example there is one such patent here which explains and does exactly what he wants. -linky to US Patent and here

If by any chance someone was ever prepared to do this, then just what he would do with this info I've no idea, because his Telco won't do anything about it.



---
FYI. Within the past week or so, he has been banned from 2 other forums (besides mine) that I know of. Thats not including the various other forums where he can no longer post or they also locked his threads/deleted his posts over the years. I'm quite honoured that he's only bitching about mine despite all the help he has been given. laugh

----------------
www.kitz.co.uk.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 14-Aug-18 18:14:39
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: kitz] [link to this post]
 
I think he expects us to read everything he has posted on your forum kitz, judging by the number of links in his OP, then add to what he has already been told.

That's quite an amusing thought, in a way smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 69319/12403Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 14-Aug-18 18:29:17
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Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: kitz] [link to this post]
 
I think kitz slightly misunderstood what I want.
In reply to a post by kitz:
Basically he wants you to be able to identify from a simple hlog graph where there may be some slightly non perfect piece of copper/joint or miniscule defect on his line and what point.

Basically I want to be able to identify type of impairtment causing this unusual hlog. Burakkucat suppose that it is caused by circuit consisting of many section of cables with different gauges. However I am not convinced this is explanation. Perhaps it is partial explanation if anything. Following there are reasons why I think this way.

1. According to my ISP my circuit is not consisting of many cables with different gauges.
2. I've discovered that some dips on my Hlog are caused by measurement errors. In this post I've explained this.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/t/4597203...
3. One day event weights against theory that this Hlog is caused by many sections of circuit with different gauges.
I've noticed sudden reconnection and change of attenuation values at the time of pavement resurfacing works. It was 23.5/20.2 dB instead usual 25.0/14.9 dB (usual on D-Link DSL-2740B). Probably more users were reconnected because I had SNR margin about 4 dB immediately after reconnection (instead 6 dB). Next day after that day I also had reconnection during pavement resurfacing work and attenuation came back to usual values. On day with unusual attenuation day Hlog was significantly different per some tones. I think some shock caused some ipairtment on some joint reflected signal differently than usually.

https://s22.postimg.cc/rrzvo3ish/onedayhlog.png

Following there are usual and onedayhlog on one coordinate system.

https://s22.postimg.cc/q8b8856e9/Double_Hlog1.png

I suspect dip moved from tone ~210 to tone ~150.


FYI. Within the past week or so, he has been banned from 2 other forums (besides mine) that I know of. Thats not including the various other forums where he can no longer post or they also locked his threads/deleted his posts over the years. I'm quite honoured that he's only bitching about mine despite all the help he has been given. laugh

On other forums there is censorship. It doesn't mean that it is good. I am sorry that I've proved myself person harassing burakkucat and other forum members. Indeed, moderators have been asking me to not write "burakkucat: what do you think?". However I have thought moderators exaggerate. I have believed that my research benefits both me and burakkucat. I thought burakkucat is interestes with my posts however sometimes forget about theirs and thereby it is OK if I remind burakkucat of some unreplied post. I am surprised my posts have been so very uninteresting. My Hlog is unusual and I have thought that burakkucat also would like to know what is cause.

Ban for putting people on pressure would be OK. However it is not OK that my thread was locked.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22097.msg37...
I have wanted to explain why I think burakkucat is wrong emphasizing that I understand burakkucat is not interested with my explanation but I will explain it for potentially interested other persons. I got ban after I protested against censorship. I don't say harassing other forum users is OK.

Edited by konrado5 (Tue 14-Aug-18 18:45:54)

Standard User konrado5
(regular) Tue 14-Aug-18 18:57:37
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I think he expects us to read everything he has posted on your forum kitz, judging by the number of links in his OP, then add to what he has already been told.

That's quite an amusing thought, in a way smile.

No. I have summarized my discoveries in this post.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/t/4597203...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 14-Aug-18 19:00:13
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by konrado5:
I have wanted to explain why I think burakkucat is wrong emphasizing that I understand burakkucat is not interested with my explanation but I will explain it for potentially interested other persons.
There aren't any on/in this site or forum.
I got ban after I protested against censorship.
You mean you repeatedly broke the rules of the multiple sites that you got banned from in two countries.
I don't say harassing other forum users is OK.
Then stop harassing us. We aren't interested in your Hlog. That is surely obvious from nearly every reply you have received here. Did you really expect people to read or look at all 8 links in your OP?

Neither is this forum the place for you to post (several times in this thread) criticism of another highly respected UK site. As for "However it is not OK that my thread was locked" it was your own fault. Nobody else's.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 69319/12403Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User GonePostal
(member) Tue 14-Aug-18 19:13:12
Print Post

Re: My reasearch about Hlog and cenzorship on forum.kitz.co.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
There once was a chap from Po-land
Who claimed he just wanted a hand
He became so insistent
That he was ruled as persistent
And ended up everywhere banned.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 14-Aug-18 19:16:42
Print Post

Final Word


[re: konrado5] [link to this post]
 
This is going to go nowhere...

RF and xDSL services are very time sensitive and the RF environment xDSL operates in has many external factors that can impact it. Only by spending vast amounts of time with expensive diagnostic kit will there be a chance to figure out what is happening on the line.

If the issue was service impacting it would be simpler to diagnose and while the physics of copper lines will be similar there may be enough differences between the polish network topology and the BT one that what people in the UK suggest will lead you down a wrong path.

NOTE: Thread locking is not censorship it is simply an action designed to draw a topic to close. Censorship would involve the remove of posts and if posts are found to be breaking a sites rules that is not censorship either.

If you want rid of the problem then best advice put your efforts into campaigning for full fibre - Fibre to the Premises.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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