In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

When the next bod comes to do an SFI, ask them to put their tester into manual sync, then plug their butt in at the same time whilst watching the error counter ....

It might be the only evidence they can chase.

Maybe wacking the gain up on the TDR might show something.

If they start saying ‘but the PQ test passes’ maybe politely suggest they check with their senior engineer...... many HR faults don’t show up on a PQ test.

Am i reading this correctly?


But anyway, thanks for the advice!

A but in openreach speak is a test telephone handset, in fact the terminology goes back to the Post Office Telephone days, I know cos I worked for them back in that era, long since retired

Ah ok thanks.

Anyway, quick update.

Re -sync this morning just before seven so im now on fast path.

Error stats were automatically reset so with that, plugged the new phone in.

In just under an hour with the phone in, i have accumulated...

CRC: 3360
FECS: 248623
ES: 1755


I am guessing the engineer reset DLM, as this happened before when i was interleaved with an engineer appoint booked for that day.

I have unplugged the phone again for now.

I strongly advise you don't connect that DECT phone again if you like fastpath.
You've rattled through half the daily ES limit in an hour.

ES are expected with fastpath as there's no error protection on the line at all, but not to that extent.

Hi John,

Yes i did pull the plug after seeing those errors.

Engineer has been and he did indeed carry out more in depth testing etc and with the TDR and found a tiny spike about 150 meters away, which he said shouldn't cause too many issues.

Anyway, he performed a lift and shift, and whilst not improving sync speeds, has almost eliminated all the errors.

So far after one hour..

CRC: 0
FEC: 4
ES: 0

No phone plugged in at the moment but will leave it disconnected.

He suggested leaving it to settle for about 72hrs.

Just thinking out loud here...

Surely, if i was just swapped to a different port on the same card, it wouldn't necessarily improve anything if the card was at fault?

Logs this morning are..

CRC:184
FECS: 8628
ES: 90

I haven't dared to try the phone again yet!

The line running perfect until you connect a DECT phone is unlikely to be a dodgy line card.

When using a DECT phone are you connecting it to a power socket that's right next to the master socket?
If so have you tried using another power socket?

Are there any other extensions in the house?

I haven't dared to try the phone again yet!

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

The line running perfect until you connect a DECT phone is unlikely to be a dodgy line card.

When using a DECT phone are you connecting it to a power socket that's right next to the master socket?
If so have you tried using another power socket?

Are there any other extensions in the house?

Must admit, i was thinking the same.

The phone is powered from a socket the other side of the room on a short extension lead. I was thinking that maybe the power socket that the modem is plugged into may be contributing. I have a new one in the garage so i may swap it out anyway, as the wife has painted the current one.

No other phone extensions at all. Just the incoming cable into the master socket.

One thing i haven't tried is using a dangly filter in the test socket with the phone and dsl plugged in, to rule out a dodgy 5C faceplate.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I haven't dared to try the phone again yet!

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

You ain't kidding!

I think the most frustrating thing is a) losing a huge amount of sync over night (and none of the engineers can explain - rein, crosstalk& capacity issues have been ruled out) & b) now the line is stable, every time i plug my phone in, i lose even more!!!

I advise running the test socket experiment next.

A point on the comment about crosstalk...

No idea who told you crosstalk was ruled out, but unless they have a magic crystal ball I've no idea how they could possibly think to know crosstalk wasn't the reason.

Crosstalk can start on the line at any time.
The engineers may only connect new lines during the working day but a new line won't cause crosstalk and reduce your sync until that customer connects their modem. They can do this at anytime, midnight if circumstances required it.

A single engineer can't know every line that's activated on a cabinet, so if it was an engineer they are talking nonsense.
Former FTTC customers can be left jumpered to the cabinet and their line reactivated remotely. An engineer wouldn't know this has happened.

I've never seen an FTTC line that hasn't lost any speed to crosstalk, unless at the 40/55/80Mb cap for their package. Even then crosstalk has likely nibbled away at their attainable.
Some don't notice it as the lower SNRM targets can recover some sync.

I used to get 55Mb.
Crosstalk has dropped this to about 37Mb.
3dB SNRM increased it back to 45Mb.

You are on an ECI cabinet with no lower SNRM targets available to you so crosstalk would be noticed immediately and not covered up by DLM lowering the noise margin.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 22-Jan-19 11:38:18)

Thanks John,

It was a couple of engineers that mentioned about the crosstalk.

Did your speeds drop off quite quickly?

I only noticed mine towards the end of December, and when one of the engineers came, he showed me a sync graph on his phone showing green for many months, then overnight, dropped straight down into the red.

Hmmmmm ok.

Just removed the OR faceplate and plugged in a dangly filter and VDSL only, and my attainable and sync speeds have increased by around 4Mb each.

Not a great amount but still an improvement on before and makes one wonder about these filers that OR supply.