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Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Wed 23-Jan-19 14:45:54
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BT/Openreach master socket installation


[link to this post]
 
Looking for some advice on a bt/openreach master socket. Currently at first fix stage of a barn conversion. Ideally I want the master socket installed just inside my entrance. However I want to be able to plug my router directly into the master socket as I understand that gets me the best connection. So my two computers and router will be in my office, several rooms away. Is it correct that an extension can be taken from the back of the master socket and run through the building structure to another socket in the office to in effect give me the same direct connection as I would have from the actual master socket in the entrance? Just to clarify, I donít want openreach to install directly into my office as this would entail their cabling on the outside of part of the building that I donít want it to be on.
Hope this makes sense and I look forward to some advice. Please bear with me as I only have internet access when at home and I am out on site much of the time but will check back here when I can.

PS: I am hoping to opt for a fibre connection as FTTC is supposed to be available in our area, donít know if that makes any difference to my original question.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Wed 23-Jan-19 20:00:39
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
Goto https://www.dslchecker.bt.com and use the address option to see what sort of connection speeds are predicted 1st.
How long would the cable run be from the socket to the proposed location?

Edited by witchunt (Wed 23-Jan-19 20:48:27)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Wed 23-Jan-19 22:08:14
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
Is there a reason why the router cant be by the master socket and then run an Ethernet cable to the office? That would give the best possible speed. In the office you'd have either an Ethernet switch, a wire access point or a combined wireless access point/switch depending on the connectivity you need in the office.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8


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Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 01:02:16
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
Hi witchhunt and jelv, thanks for replying. The dsl checker shows for my postcode:
VDSL Range A (clean) 35.6 High and 22.4 Low download and 7.6 High and 5.2 Low upload
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 34.8 High and 19.3 Low download and 7.4 High and 4.8 Low upload
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Ė Up to 3.5 download and up to 0.5 upload
I donít understand difference between clean and impacted.
I reckon the actual cable length run would be around 15 metres from proposed master socket location to my preferred router location in office.
I guess technically there is no reason I could not put the router in the entrance next to the master socket but would prefer not to. I have always liked having the router next to where I am working so I can see what is happening if I get connection problems which I currently do from time to time. Maybe a fibre connection at our new property will be better?
Incidentally we are only moving about a half mile to the new property so will still be on the same exchange etc.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 24-Jan-19 01:12:30
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
For your postcode, or the actual new full address?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 24-Jan-19 01:12:51)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Jan-19 02:02:16
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
A good setup should not be dropping or causing any alarm that needs you to "investigate."

I would run the modem in the master 100%. If the setup is good, it should run flawlessly without drops. Just buy a console table or something and stick the router/cordless phone on it.

Use wireless AC and AC boosters as required.

If you want a wired office, run ethernet from the hall to the office, you could stick a second wireless AP into this ethernet if you also want a WiFi boost (again get wireless AC stuff).

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 24-Jan-19 02:03:42)

Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 10:18:03
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
For your postcode, or the actual new full address?


Figures given are for address of my next door neighbour on same postcode. Our property Is newly registered and the broadband checker will not recognise our address. However we are recognised by Openreach for getting a line installed.
Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 10:42:37
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
New setup idea. Will this work ok:
Master socket site in entrance.
Router (4 port) site next to master socket and plug directly into master socket faceplate.
Ethernet port faceplate on wall next to router wired through building (approx. 15m) to office to terminate at another Ethernet faceplate.
Connect from office faceplate to xxxNo. ports Ethernet switch.
Connect from Ethernet switch to two desktop pcís and one printer in office.
Seven other Ethernet faceplates (data points my sparky calls them?) around the property all terminating in the office. Also connect all or some of these to Ethernet switch.

So to summarise. My master socket and router in entrance but direct linked to office and all other Ethernet circuits running from the office.

Thanks in advance for any more advice. I am just trying to think how to make things work best in our new property.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 24-Jan-19 10:59:47
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rog_dee:
New setup idea. Will this work ok:
Yes. Perfect.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Thu 24-Jan-19 12:01:35
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
you could fit a filtered faceplate where the line comes in and take a non filtered ext from the terminals on the back to the office and plug the router in to that the mk3 plate is deemed to be the better of the ones that bt produced

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BT-Openreach-MK3-F...

it is exactly what i used for years with no problems(till we got FTTH!!) the ext for the router in the office just needs to be a standard phone ext socket (or you could use an RJ11 socket as some routers seem to be supplied with a RJ11 to RJ11 lead to connect with

sorry for out of date link but you get the idea

Edited by threelegs (Thu 24-Jan-19 12:06:13)

Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Thu 24-Jan-19 12:59:35
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I would agree, you want to have the shortest possible distance between where the line comes into your house, your master socket and then the ADSL/VDSL modem for maximum speed.

However I would strongly recommend thinking about creating a network cupboard somewhere in your barn conversion, and run network cables from a patch panel to anywhere you might want to plug in a network device that does not move, might be a smart TV, games console, network connected HiFi etc. I would also strongly recommend thinking very carefully about your WiFi requirements and having some cables run to suitable ceiling locations so you can fit ceiling mounted WiFi access points powered over the ethernet cable in optimum locations for the best coverage.

Ubiquiti have some excellent free tools for planning WiFi coverage, and there UniFi AC Lite and AC-LR can both be powered from a Edgerouter X SFP, and with the right adaptor you can also power your ADSL/VDSL modem too.

Finally you might want to think about WiFi in your garden. The UniFi AC-M mesh works well as an outdoor access point that can also be powered over the ethernet cable from the Edgerouter X SFP. The beefier but more expensive Edgerouter 12P will be available later this year with more CPU grunt and more switch ports too.
Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 14:11:48
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
you could fit a filtered faceplate where the line comes in and take a non filtered ext from the terminals on the back to the office and plug the router in to that the mk3 plate is deemed to be the better of the ones that bt produced

Appreciate all the replies. Am I correct to presume the faceplate solution quoted above and my idea posted previously will to all intents produce exactly the same result in my office? But perhaps the filtered faceplate on the master socket would give a neater appearance overall?

Please bear with me and my questions but I only have a limited amount of understanding regarding this topic. Thanks again.
Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 14:20:14
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
you could fit a filtered faceplate where the line comes in and take a non filtered ext from the terminals on the back to the office and plug the router in to that the mk3 plate is deemed to be the better of the ones that bt produced

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BT-Openreach-MK3-F...

it is exactly what i used for years with no problems(till we got FTTH!!) the ext for the router in the office just needs to be a standard phone ext socket (or you could use an RJ11 socket as some routers seem to be supplied with a RJ11 to RJ11 lead to connect with

Appreciate all the replies. Am I correct to presume the faceplate solution quoted above and my idea posted previously will to all intents produce exactly the same result in my office? But perhaps the filtered faceplate on the master socket would give a neater appearance overall?

Please bear with me and my questions but I only have a limited amount of understanding regarding this topic. Thanks again.
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Thu 24-Jan-19 14:45:18
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
yes rog dee as you said is what i said (should not skim read) the filtered faceplate solution means that the socket in the hall looks like a normal socket and the wiring for the computer socket comes off the terminals inside and then to another socket as required. the filtered master doesnt have anything other than a phone (if requred) plugged in but even then extension sockets for phone only can be taken from the master to where ever as required

socket here(expensive but as they are discontinued they are rare)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-original-packaging-Gen...

Edited by threelegs (Thu 24-Jan-19 14:47:55)

Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 15:16:41
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by threelegs:
yes rog dee as you said is what i said (should not skim read) the filtered faceplate solution means that the socket in the hall looks like a normal socket and the wiring for the computer socket comes off the terminals inside and then to another socket as required. the filtered master doesnt have anything other than a phone (if requred) plugged in but even then extension sockets for phone only can be taken from the master to where ever as required

Hope I have not caused any offence three legs, definitely not my intention, just a newbie trying to understand.
Next part of my enquiry:
If Openreach install master socket and I take that back to the office as I described previously, without replacing the faceplate but via an extension wired through structure of my building. Is it then correct that I still need to use a micro filter between master socket and the router and at any other telephone points in the house? The use of a replacement Ďsplití faceplate on the master socket would then not require the use of micro filters?
As ever I appreciate all your help.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 24-Jan-19 15:41:07
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rog_dee:
In reply to a post by threelegs:
yes rog dee as you said is what i said (should not skim read) the filtered faceplate solution means that the socket in the hall looks like a normal socket and the wiring for the computer socket comes off the terminals inside and then to another socket as required. the filtered master doesnt have anything other than a phone (if requred) plugged in but even then extension sockets for phone only can be taken from the master to where ever as required

Hope I have not caused any offence three legs, definitely not my intention, just a newbie trying to understand.
Next part of my enquiry:
If Openreach install master socket and I take that back to the office as I described previously, without replacing the faceplate but via an extension wired through structure of my building. Is it then correct that I still need to use a micro filter between master socket and the router and at any other telephone points in the house? The use of a replacement Ďsplití faceplate on the master socket would then not require the use of micro filters?
As ever I appreciate all your help.
(There have been some replies to me that should have been directly to yourself, but I expect you have read them).

The solution of taking wires from the insides of the master is not perfect. It is the next best thing. As jazbuzzard said, "I would agree, you want to have the shortest possible distance between where the line comes into your house, your master socket and then the ADSL/VDSL modem for maximum speed".

It does avoid the ethernet socket in the hall, and allow you to have the router in your office. There would be a small performance loss and more risk of electromagnetic noise in the house affecting the signal from the cabinet to the router. That noise if present could affect the speed quite a bit.

If you do go that way however, your pre-wiring should preferably ducted, not just go through drill holes, and be CAT6. CW1308 standard phone cable would do, but not ordinary house wiring electric cabling.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 24-Jan-19 15:49:52)

Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Thu 24-Jan-19 17:06:03
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rog_dee:
In reply to a post by threelegs:
you could fit a filtered faceplate where the line comes in and take a non filtered ext from the terminals on the back to the office and plug the router in to that the mk3 plate is deemed to be the better of the ones that bt produced

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BT-Openreach-MK3-F...

it is exactly what i used for years with no problems(till we got FTTH!!) the ext for the router in the office just needs to be a standard phone ext socket (or you could use an RJ11 socket as some routers seem to be supplied with a RJ11 to RJ11 lead to connect with

Appreciate all the replies. Am I correct to presume the faceplate solution quoted above and my idea posted previously will to all intents produce exactly the same result in my office? But perhaps the filtered faceplate on the master socket would give a neater appearance overall?

Please bear with me and my questions but I only have a limited amount of understanding regarding this topic. Thanks again.


I would advise in the strongest possible terms not to do this. Build a small cupboard to hide it all if necessary. At worst run the CW1308 from the filtered faceplate the shortest possible distance to somewhere that is not unsightly (like under the stairs).

One day you will go FTTP and the ONT will be where the fibre comes in the house. Plan now for it to be where the master socket is.
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Thu 24-Jan-19 17:12:14
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
no offence taken. if you think of the first socket as a junction box any PHONE sockets taken from it do not need micro filters (much neater)as the filter is in the filtered faceplate and the socket taken to the office does not need a micro filter as the modem uses the frequencies that the filter doesnt remove
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Thu 24-Jan-19 17:18:20
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
jabuzzard the ONT does not need to be where the fibre comes in to the house.mine is in a hall cupboard and the fibre comes into the house via ducting underground up the wall to the roof through the soffit, through the loft, and down through walls into the cupboard. OK I ran the cable up and through but that was my choice and the OR engineer didnt care where the ONT was or how the fibre got there

Rog dee as ja buzzard has said you might get FTTH in the future so IF you could think of a way for the fibre to get there it might be a good idea

Edited by threelegs (Thu 24-Jan-19 17:22:03)

Standard User rog_dee
(newbie) Thu 24-Jan-19 22:46:56
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Still taking in all the opinions and advice. Sorry if I have missed something or it is maybe my ignorance, but what is ONT?
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Jan-19 23:17:51
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
I would advise against this.

My personal advice is as follows: find a route for the BT cabling to take and have the master in the office. It is one cable, you will hardly notice it on an exterior wall.

OR run ethernet from master location, to the office.

The faceplate solution whilst it will work is not ideal.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 25-Jan-19 01:03:00
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
ONT (Optical Network Termination) is the FTTP equivalent of the xDSL NTE Master socket. It's a clunky box with ethernet output to a normal router. No modem.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 25-Jan-19 01:04:33)

Standard User threelegs
(regular) Fri 25-Jan-19 13:50:08
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: rog_dee] [link to this post]
 
Roberto beat me to it but an ONT as he says is this

https://www.ournetwork.openreach.co.uk/resources/sit...
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Fri 25-Jan-19 14:00:54
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
as you say in your original post that you are at first fix in a barn conversion please think NOW about having RJ45 ie computer sockets in other rooms for smart tv sky box x box in a bedroom etc it is easy to do now and hard work and messy later.Personally i have 28 sockets round the house including 6 in the lounge alone

the ideal situation is to have sockets in every room as required all fed from a central point so maybe if possible find somewhere to put incoming phone line /fibre (in the future) router and patch panel etc

Edited by threelegs (Fri 25-Jan-19 14:18:29)

Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Fri 25-Jan-19 22:45:06
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Absolutely 110%. Also as I said previously you also want to use a WiFi planner (Ubiquiti do a good one) and then drop Cat6a to the appropriate points in your ceiling for access points.
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sat 26-Jan-19 16:02:18
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Cat6 probably good enough if not over 30 metres per length.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User threelegs
(regular) Sun 27-Jan-19 16:48:26
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
cat5 would be ok for shorter runs but yes as the OP is doing first fix might as well do it right and once (even if cat6 is a pain to connect in back boxes compared to cat 5
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Sun 27-Jan-19 17:08:29
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Cat5e is not rated for 10Gbps at ANY length. Cat6 on the other hand is for runs under ~50m provided there is no significant length they are run in bunches. As such in most domestic scenarios Cat6 is good enough.

Edited by jabuzzard (Sun 27-Jan-19 17:08:43)

Standard User threelegs
(regular) Sun 27-Jan-19 18:24:34
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
who the hell mentioned 10Gbps????
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Mon 28-Jan-19 15:24:03
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Nobody. But Cat6 can handle that speed, Cat5e can't.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Mon 28-Jan-19 17:43:54
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: threelegs] [link to this post]
 
Nobody mentioned 10Gbps, but if you are running cable by far the biggest cost is the labour. Run Cat6a today and you are future proofing your installation for at least 20 years probably longer. Skimp on it and use Cat5e and if a few years you may well be regretting it, and the cost of replacing a length with Cat6a will now be more than the cost of just doing it with Cat6a in the first place and we are not taking into account the disruption from ripping floor boards up etc.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Wed 30-Jan-19 00:32:06
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Re: BT/Openreach master socket installation


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
If you're ripping up floorboards them just install some conduit with Cat5e and a pull cable. Future proofed for life without ridiculous overkill.

Cat5e is more than enough for the average home user.
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