Cease Fee by Vivaciti

I am recovering from a heart attack, 2 stents fitted, plus other health issues and I am on sickness benefit.
I requested a MAC from Vivaciti on 13/12/2011 and confirmed with the company that it was because I was on benefit of £67.50 a week and needed to economise.
I received MAC on 21/12/2011: LCSW2595380/JM21M
I was very depressed over the Xmas period, suicidal thoughts, no family etc so was in no fit state to research and investigate migration to cheaper provider so didn’t use the MAC.

On 30/01/2012 I requested another MAC (other of course expired) and again explained I had to cut costs and was looking at a line and broadband package with another provider.

On 10/02/2012 I was given a MAC by Vivaciti of LCSW2595380/JM21M. Yes, those of you with keen eyes have noticed, it is the same one as previously given.
Orange could not use the MAC as it was invalid, yet despite telephone conversations, emails and tickets Vivaciti were adamant that it was valid and basically insisted that ‘Orange’ did not have a clue about broadband and support staff were just “script readers”. I asked again for a valid MAC so that I could migrate. I never received one.

What happened next is a bit of a nightmarish fiasco. I was informed by BT that my line would be transferred to Orange on 14.02.12. On that day, I had no Internet and none till 24/02/12 when I connected to Orange. Many phone calls to both parties followed which left me totally stressed out and confused.

Vivacit are now pursuing me for a ‘Cease Fee’ of £29.69.
I did not request a cease of services on my line, Orange did I presume because I had been unable to give them a MAC as Vivaciti had failed to give me a valid one within 5 working days of my request date of 30/01/12.

I am very worried and concerned with this and fear the stress of being unable to pay will affect my health (quoted from Vivaciti ticket system):

“We therefore inform you that if payment of all outstanding invoices are not paid within 5 days we will attempt recovery.
This can take the form of doorstep collections and / or court action, this will cause further costs to be raised including interest, and if court action then court fees will also be incurred by you including the action being placed on your credit file that can cause you issues when attempting to gain credit from any other company.
Please take this communication as your final notice.”

Do I have to pay?
Hope someone can help me please.

Vivaciti will pick this up. Don't worry, I'm sure if it's a genuine mistake there will be no cost to you.

Hi,
I have looked up your account and can see that you had requested a MAC, the original MAC was invalid and this was due to a current regrade order on your line to bring it to 21cn (these regrades are automated) we informed you that the regrade was due to complete on the 14th and we could issue a new MAC after this time.
You then contacted us to say we had cut your internet off, when we looked into this we found out it was due to a cease order being placed on your phone line (referred to as a stop and start, not normally how someone would take over a phone line) and this had caused a cease on your broadband. We did not provide your phone line so had no visibility of this.
This is what had caused your broadband to cease, when this happens a cease fee is charged (this is not a full LLU xfer) and we have to pass the cease fee over (we pass this fee over a cost price so do not make a profit on it)
As it was your new phone provider (I think you said it was orange) that had ceased your phone line you should attempt to recover the costs from them, but I am afraid the cease order does stand.
If it we had control of your phone line and someone had made some error and ceased your phone line then we would pick up this cost, but this is not the case I am afraid.
The reason we have sent you the notice is in your previous ticket response that you have not posted you stated you would not pay any charges and this is the last you message you will send us ant you would not respond to any further communication from us-ever, so a final notice was sent to you as we have to do before we pass any account to collections.

Good Morning,

From what you have outlined the cease charge appears that it would be valid as the final step appears to be a possible WLR3 cease (regardless if MAC keys were generated, valid or not), which would cease any broadband on the line. This would be chargeable.

Again, I'm just taking from what you have outlined, however if the phone service was also being transferred then Orange should have let you know charges may apply, though you would hope that Orange would have covered that expense in some way (gain customer).

Rule of thumb really is any major work being done to the phone line (transferred being an example) can cause disconnections of a broadband service, which can lead to charges.

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

Hi,
I have looked up your account and can see that you had requested a MAC, the original MAC was invalid and this was due to a current regrade order on your line to bring it to 21cn (these regrades are automated)

Who initiated this regrade - the customer or the ISP?

Initially, the OP had a BT landline with Vivacti on top.

It appears (and maybe someone can confirm this) that moving the land line from BT to Orange requires a cease and re-provide. If that's the case, this all makes sense. Vivacti will have been notified about the cease on the broadband from this process, and that is now where we stand.

I guess the thing here is to realise the broadband and the land line are two completely independent entities (most of us know this, but maybe the OP doesn't). But, one has influence over the other, namely, the land line. So if any thing happens with the land line, that also knocks onto the broadband.

I think any ISP should be totally clear in how they take over your service, for this very reason. I find it pretty bad show from Orange that they didn't clarify all this with the customer before continuing with this migration.

In reply to a post by mixt:

Initially, the OP had a BT landline with Vivacti on top.

It appears (and maybe someone can confirm this) that moving the land line from BT to Orange requires a cease and re-provide.

I think that Orange would cover the cost of this. The charge in question is due to Vivaciti not being able to generate a MAC when requested within the 5 day period mandated by Ofcom.

An ISP using a MAC to migrate a line internally is not uncommon, and is probably one of the get out clauses in GC22. Though consumer should ideally be informed before an ISP does something like this, as in this case it interferes with a customers own plans.

A move to orange WLR/SMPF should not require a cease, most likely arose as Orange/BT Wholesale saw the odd orders from the provider migration to 21CN and decided to cease that so customer could migrate.

At this time the customer needs to dispute the charges in writing, and get things cleared up. Debt collection agencies at such an early stage is a surprise, particularly as the full situation is not clear.

Small providers would do well to read a recent blog posting by Adrian Kennard from AA where ADR gave customer £500 even though AA was not at fault.

Or look at it another way, a customer who leaves because of financial reasons is still likely to recommend an ISP if they leave on good terms

This? http://preview.tinyurl.com/838ot4m

There is a dispute with the account which was only terminated a couple of weeks a go and you are all ready threatening a customer who has health problems with a door step collection / Court action and a bad credit rating? very shady and bully boy tactics IMO.

“We therefore inform you that if payment of all outstanding invoices are not paid within 5 days we will attempt recovery.
This can take the form of doorstep collections and / or court action, this will cause further costs to be raised including interest, and if court action then court fees will also be incurred by you including the action being placed on your credit file that can cause you issues when attempting to gain credit from any other company.
Please take this communication as your final notice.”

Edited by Kimi (Sat 25-Feb-12 11:48:47)