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Standard User tismetoo
(newbie) Tue 12-Mar-13 11:16:38
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EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[link to this post]
 
Hi there,

I'm new to this forum but have found the advice on here very useful in the past.

I have been a user of Orange (EE) broadband for quite a few years and decided last December to take a look at what else was available as my contract was at an end. I ran various speed tests including BT Wholesale and found that my line was capable of 20mb download. I was on an old Orange package that limited me to 8mb (I assume basic ADSL).

So after talking to EE, I upgraded and renewed my package with them at not much more than I was paying before (loyal user discount etc) and they sent me the new Brightbox router. I set everything up and for the first 2 months everything was fine - line "retrained" itself to give me a consistent and error free download of just over 20mb (upload about 0.75mb)

In the last few weeks however, the speed has dropped, first to about 17mb and now around 14.5mb - strangely enough the upload speed has gone up to about 1.2mb.

I have noticed from both EE and BT that their latest broadband packages available are "limited" to !4mb (EE) or 16mb (BT). Is this therefore pure coincidence that my speed has "dropped" to 14.5mb or has it been deliberately restricted in my IP Profile?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 12-Mar-13 12:41:14
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: tismetoo] [link to this post]
 
The package adverts speed drops are nothing to do with it. In fact in a way quite the opposite. They are because of recent changes to broadband advertising regulations, which make it so they can only advertise a connection speed that at least 10% of customers get.

What is causing your problem I can't tell at the moment. It would be useful if you could find and post the Connection/sync/bandwidth, attenuation and noise margin (SNR/SNRM) figures from the Brightbox. Also the results in the text boxes from doing a BT Performance Test then clicking the Further diagnostics button at the bottom of the initial results page.

Have you bought or replaced any electrical or electronic equipment since December? Or moved stuff around?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 541/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User tismetoo
(newbie) Wed 13-Mar-13 12:53:18
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The only thing I have changed is that I have been using a Netgear N300 Gigabit router (ADSL2+) as my home is CAT5 wired and I wanted to get maximum lan speed (the EE router only supports 10/100megabit lan ports). I don't have wireless on my desktop). I was getting 20mb download for quite a few weeks using the Netgear router (as I was with the EE Brightbox before that). It is only in the last two weeks or so that the speed has dropped (another odd thing is that I've noticed a few times now, round about 6pm that the connection "drops" and reconnects as though something is switching over. There have been no changes in my home other than the router.

BT Wholesale Tests
Download Speed (Mbps): 12.73
Upload Speed (Mbps): 0.98
Ping Latency(ms): 56.50

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
12.73 Mbps
0 Mbps
21 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speed achieved during the test was - 12.73 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 13.18 Mbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.98 Mbps
0 Mbps
0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.98Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.

Netgear Stats:
System Up Time 19:46:28
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 613987 917257 0 433 11470 19:45:10
LAN 10M/100M/1000M 924864 622553 0 11721 626 19:46:19
WLAN 11M/54M/300M 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14936 kbps 1155 kbps
Line Attenuation 14.3 db 8.4 db
Noise Margin 12.0 db 6.0 db

I did notice that when I was getting 20mb download, the Noise margin was 6.0db down and 6.0db up - I'm not exactly sure what the line attenuation was but I think it was about 11db down and 8db up.

I dread having to phone Orange as I know from experience that whatever you say seems to get forgotten (why they don't have an email/web based "ticket" system I just don't know - trying to give them information and stats like the above is just a nightmare)

Anyway - any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated


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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 13-Mar-13 13:51:05
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: tismetoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tismetoo:
Noise Margin 12.0 db 6.0 db
That's what damping your sync speed. As you observed it would normally be 6dB. Could well worth 2.5 - 5 Meg of speed.

There have been reports of Orange holding NMs unnecessarily high. You need to get on to them and ask them to release or lower the Target NM. Unfortunately 1st line support have no BB knowledge and you need it to be escalated to their Fault Management Team. Do not accept an engineer to be sent; they have no responsibility over the connection parameters.

EDIT: It might be worth you running with the BrighBox for a few weeks and see if it recovers, to save trying to persuade Orange. Indeed they might well insist on it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 13-Mar-13 14:18:07)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 13-Mar-13 15:20:09
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: tismetoo] [link to this post]
 
Largely I agree with XRaySpeX.

Additionally, in your shoes I'd be looking into that 6pm dropping - as that is almost certainly something to do with the reason for the noise margin being hiked.

Next door hasn't just hung a plasma TV on an adjoining wall for example?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User tismetoo
(newbie) Wed 13-Mar-13 16:16:23
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ok, thanks guys - no, we live in a semi detached stone cottage in a smallish village - I guess we're just lucky we have a BT exchange here and I'm about 800 metres from it. Rumour had it that there were a couple of high up Openreach managers in the village but then that would just be a coincidence that we have excellent BB !!

Anyway, I'll put the Brightbox back in and leave it for a couple of weeks - if nothing changes will phone Orange about the NM.

Thanks again
Standard User tismetoo
(newbie) Wed 20-Mar-13 10:53:44
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I've put the Brightbox back on-line and left for a few days now (still at 12db download noise though). Just for a laugh I thought I'd phone Orange (EE) support.

Result - as you’d expect really. This one aspect alone will make me leave EE (either before my contract expires or certainly after - mobiles and BB). I just can't believe they can be so inflexible and “script monkeys”. Trying to explain something to them over the phone was like wading through treacle and after an hour I gave up (example: “we've run a line test and can't find a problem” but the speed has dropped 25% and noise margin has gone up from 6db to 12db – can you arrange a reset “we've done a line test and can't find a problem, your broadband is working fine so we can't escalate your problem” and so on......). I even contacted them via their on-line contact form but was told they only deal with problems over the phone. Given the technical nature of problems one can have with BB etc this is just stupid – reading out stats and figures over the phone to someone in India, being put on hold while something is checked, repeating figures several times, it's just a joke. Just about every other ISP I've now looked at has a web based forum or technical “ticket” system.

So I'll leave the router another week or so but I suspect the line is now “stuck” at 12db. I was researching other peoples problems similar to this and it appears it may have been caused when I was setting up the Netgear router and perhaps had too many reboots (why does no-one warn you of this before hand?) - anyway, if nothing changes I'm thinking of perhaps getting a Billion 7800N as apparently you can tweak the NM?. I also still need a gigabit router for my LAN (the Brightbox obviously isn't).
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 20-Mar-13 11:30:49
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: tismetoo] [link to this post]
 
The expected time for the sync-time (connection time) noise margin to adjust downwards after being sent up by a problem is 10-14 days, as long as the line is stable, few errors being detected, and so on. So the less you do other than normal usage the better.

If and when it does adjust down it does it in 3dB steps, and normally automatically re-syncs. Then waits another 10-14 days.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 20-Mar-13 13:28:55
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: tismetoo] [link to this post]
 
You could write them a formal complaint snailmail. That's how I got my NM released when they moved me from LLU to WBC 2 years ago. Took 3 months, mind.

But 1st wait for it to settle as Roberto suggests.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User tismetoo
(newbie) Wed 20-Mar-13 13:43:41
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Re: EE Broadband ADSL2+ download speed slowing down


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes, will leave it alone now for a couple of weeks but even if it goes back to 20mb I still need a gigabit router (again, having done more research have found that the Netgear DGN3500 may have contributed to the noise / instability problems) - so will look at perhaps the Billion one so I can adjust the SNR if it goes up again. Have put a reminider in my calendar to move from EE in June 2014 unless they can move into the 21st century with regards to their support !!

Just had a village Broadband survey dropped through our letterbox asking us if we would like Fibre - yes please is the answer to that - but suspect it'll be a couple of years before we get it.
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