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Standard User Lkue
(newbie) Wed 05-Jun-13 23:03:47
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EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[link to this post]
 
Last year the sync speed was as 3.2Mbps and the modulation was on ADSL2+, now it has slowly fallen to 1.6Mpbs and on G.992.1. It appears to be still falling still.


ADSL Line

Status: Cable connected
Line mode: G.992.1 (G.DMT)
Maximum line rate: 1600 kbps (downstream) / 448 kbps (upstream)
Noise margin: 9 dB (downstream) / 19 dB (upstream)
Line attenuation: 58 dB (downstream) / 31 dB (upstream)
Output power: 14 dBm (downstream) / 11 dBm (upstream)

There's no audible noise on the line and I have eliminated everything but the router. I've tried changing the filter, trying the test socket, etc. I've rung EE twice the first time was told that after a line check there was a fault on the line and that the technical team would be notified and that an engineer would be dispatched. I didn't hear back so I rang again and was told after another line test that my line is OK.

How should I proceed? Should I try another modem or ring EE and demand an engineer visit the property?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 05-Jun-13 23:06:53
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: Lkue] [link to this post]
 
Looks likely that EE may banded or capped the speeds or are running you on adsl profile rather adsl2+

If pestering produces no result then move provider

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 05-Jun-13 23:59:28
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: Lkue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Lkue:
Last year the sync speed was as 3.2Mbps and the modulation was on ADSL2+, now it has slowly fallen to 1.6Mpbs and on G.992.1. It appears to be still falling still.
I think you were lucky to get 3.2 Meg on ADSL2+ on your line length. In fact, for that length ADSL1 should be better than ADSL2+ and you should be getting about 2.9 Meg on it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC - BQM


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Standard User Lkue
(newbie) Thu 06-Jun-13 03:20:55
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: Lkue] [link to this post]
 
Is there anyway I can confirm this? I'll ring them in the morning to see if I can get any answers. Just restarted the router, The downstream attenuation has fallen to 55 dB and the sync speed has also fallen to 1.5Mbps, shouldn't it go up with a lower attenuation?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Jun-13 09:24:45
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: Lkue] [link to this post]
 
Only EE with access to the systems can confirm anything.

The full set of data i.e. noise margin is important to try and figure out what is going on.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 06-Jun-13 12:27:49
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: Lkue] [link to this post]
 
It is unusual for the attenuation to vary by more than +/-1 on the same ADSL Mode; it is usually rock solid. Could be a faulty router.

But the full set of data incl. noise margin & Line Mode is important to try and figure out what is going on.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC - BQM
Standard User Lkue
(newbie) Thu 06-Jun-13 13:57:49
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
It is unusual for the attenuation to vary by more than +/-1 on the same ADSL Mode; it is usually rock solid. Could be a faulty router.

But the full set of data incl. noise margin & Line Mode is important to try and figure out what is going on.


Is this what you need?

ADSL Line

Status: Cable connected
Line mode: G.992.1 (G.DMT)
Maximum line rate: 1504 kbps (downstream) / 448 kbps (upstream)
Noise margin: 9 dB (downstream) / 18 dB (upstream)
Line attenuation: 55 dB (downstream) / 31 dB (upstream)
Output power: 14 dBm (downstream) / 11 dBm (upstream)

I''ll ring them this evening to see if I can glean any information from them.
Standard User Narayan
(newbie) Wed 12-Jun-13 22:29:42
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Normally the loop loss on a broadband circuit should remain stable. A fluctuation of 3dB could be a sign of a poor joint between your property and the exchange . You mentioned that you were told there was a line fault when you first reported the problem to EE. If this was a telephony fault (battery contact, rectified loop ,etc.) you should have been referred to your telephony provider. However the line has to be good enough for broadband. As part of the of the BT Wholesale Knowledge Based Diagnostics available to ISPs an Enhanced Copper Line Test would have been run and it is possible this failed - the fault code is CU34. If this happened then a fault should have been raised into BTW and ultimately you would be offered an appointment for a PSTN engineer to bring the line up to standard for broadband. However if the condition affecting the line is intermittent is quite possible to get a pass on a subsequent test.

Given that you were getting about 3meg it is almost certain that you will also have an LTB - Lower Threshhold Breach fault. When you broadband is first provided after the first 10 days benchmarks are set for a Maximum Stable Rate (highest consistent downstream sync speed) and a Fault Threshhold Rate (80% of the MSR). If your line rate drops below the FTR you have an LTB and if the cause cannot be proved to customer kit/set-up then a fault should be raised in to BTW by the ISP.


EE does not apply capping or banding. Banding is an automatic function of Dynamic Line Managemet built into the broadband equipment at the exchange. BTW will in some rare circumstances cap what they call a flapping line - this is usually as a last resort on a very unstable circuit.
If DLM has applied a banded profile to your circuit it is because it has been triggered to do it - should your circuit become stable of its own accord DLM will act in reverse to give you back the available bandwidth but it can be very slow to do this.
There is no point in trying to force EE to override DLM unless it is absolutely certain that the root cause of the instability affecting your circuit has been identified and eliminated.

I know it is difficult but be persistent with the EE Tech Support Team - if they tell you there is a line fault ask them what the actual fault is, what the KBD output code is and what they intend to do about it.

Moving to another ISP and staying on the same type of broadband technology without identifying what is causing the low sync speed will just result in you taking the fault with you.

"REMEMBER - If you do get trapped in your flat, try not to get trapped in your flat." Vic Reeves
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Jun-13 00:55:37
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: Narayan] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Narayan:
EE does not apply capping or banding.
They do! At least to the extent of constraining the min. Target NM and, consequently, the max sync, and they can adjust it manually.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 13-Jun-13 09:43:01
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Re: EE / Orange Falling Sync Speed


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I thought similar last night, and its odd how we seem to get a disproportionate number of EE customers with the issue and the original talk of Orange having a 'special DLM'.

Orange broadband is ran by BT Wholesale, not just a wholesale product so scope for it behaving different

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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