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Standard User Deehem
(newbie) Tue 02-Jul-13 19:08:33
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Plusnet Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[link to this post]
 
This is going to be somewhat of a moan, but I’m beyond my tether now trying to get my ISP to harden up when talking to Openreach.

I moved in to a new property on 1st June, discovered helpfully that there was a BT socket installed and fibre connectivity to the building – I was ecstatic, purely because I had not been subject to fibre connectivity in my house before (living in the countryside as opposed to a city!).

I had my new line number and provision date from my new ISP (Plusnet) in a couple of days and in a few more days my trusty Technicolour TG582n “FTTC” router. I was sat there assuming it was going to be a quick 10 minute engineer visit on 12th June , this is where things went suddenly downhill.

The Openreach engineer visited at the latest possible point in his timeslot, went ahead and spoke to my girlfriend who told him where to place the extension cable, what kind of speeds we were expecting, so on and so forth. In the end the Engineer decided to run a completely new master socket in our place of choice in the property (this took a good while) and came back to do some tests, a fault had shown.

The engineer spent an hour or so locating the fault to the “underground duct”. He went along to this duct and discovered it was “blocked”. The engineer went away and said they would have to contact the council and have the footpath dug up to unblock the duct, so away he went in frustration, never to be seen again.

I should add at this point that testing internally the download connectivity is fine, however anything to be uploaded is abysmal. There is also 40-60% packet loss to most websites.

A few days later (~14th June) I decided to chase Plusnet to see if the engineer had submitted his installation report, he had not, and I proceeded to launch a fault with my ISP.

I have checked into this for you and it seems the engineer never reported this so we were never made aware to investigate further, so please accept my apologises for the engineer 'dropping the ball' so to speak.

I have carried out tests on your line and it has detected a fault so I will raise this to our suppliers and move your query to our phone faults team to monitor / update you as needed.


I also discovered that the engineer who had visited had taken a faceplate of a cable run out in the street (where the duct meets a wall) and had left cables exposed, not good. I raised this with my ISP who passed it over to Openreach.

Plusnet gave me an estimated repair time of the 19th and that there was no need for an engineer to visit my property on this date as they believe that the issues are external.

The Engineer visited on 19th, replaced the cable run covering and I saw no change in speed on my side. I explained to my ISP that I’m still unable to upload anything.

Plusnet got back to me the following day (20th June) with the following:

As we discussed after speaking to our suppliers they have advised me that there is a fault ongoing with the exchange and the pole and this will be why your Fibre service is intermittent.

They have advised that an engineer is currently working on the fault and we should have a further update form them on the 27/06/2014.

I waited this out until 27th with still no change after the fibre engineer was confirmed to have rectified the “issue”. At this point I was almost a month in to my contract with Plusnet and started getting somewhat angry, paying for a service that I’m unable to receive.

I asked Plusnet at this point to liaise with Openreach and explain that a fault is still present and to ensure no direct debit payment is taken for next month.

Openreach believed that they had cleared a fault on your line, however I have informed them that this is not the case and as such we expect to be able to provide further information tomorrow.


I then summarised exactly what had happened to far with Plusnet, as I am doing here today.

I'd like to address some of the comments you raise in order to correctly set your expectations regarding the fault process and our relationship with our supplier, though I'd also like to assure you we will be continuing to push for a resolution as soon as possible on this.

We'll happily pass on your thoughts regarding the fault, but must rely on Openreach to find and fix this, especially including the timescales. The 72 hour response is standard whenever a fault is raised or passed back for further investigation. It's usually passed back sooner than this but the time is advised in order to set expectation correctly - it's not something we have any way around.

With regard to engineer visits, these are usually weekdays in either the morning slot between 8am and 1pm or the afternoon slot between 1 and 6pm. Though sometimes weekend appointments are available (and we advise on this on a case by case basis) it's not possible to rely on these as they're few and far between. We certainly can't book an appointment at a set time, it's just a case of the slot being booked and the engineer attending at some point within the window. This is the same for all phone suppliers who resell the BT service.

Further, we also have to wait until we're advised a visit is required before booking - we're certainly not able to demand an engineer visit at any point. We can and will ask that this is looked into, and reject any other solutions that are offered (unless of course the fault is resolved - fingers crossed that that happens soon whichever way this goes).

The order itself is already marked as complete. We can't change that. We can report it (and indeed by reporting the fault have done) but we simply don't have the control that you appear to think we do. We can't overturn a decision like that, hence the need for raising the fault.

With regard to the service not working, we'll be happy to make a refund or add credits for the service, whichever you would prefer, though would rather do this once the fault is resolved so we know how long the service hasn't been working for - unfortunately we're not able to prevent payments going through.

I hope that helps clear some things up and am sorry that it's not good news, though I hope you appreciate our position here. We'll make sure to keep you updated on the latest regarding this, I'll personally check on the fault later this afternoon and advise you on the current progress.


I then proceeded to respond with some comments as to how I’ve been messed around a lot this month and that their relationship with Openreach, being their supplier, should be a lot more forward and not accepting a simple engineer visit each time. Their response to this is as follows:

I have contacted Openreach regarding your fault today.

At present, we are discussing the possibility of sending an engineer to the local network as opposed to the engineer carrying out work on your premises. This is because the previous engineer had located a fault in the local network and furthermore, as per your response, it appears that all relevant tests have been carried out at your property on the numerous engineer visits already carried out.

Our suppliers have reported that they will contact the relevant controls (work allocation) department with this in mind to identify the best course of action going forward. We have been advised to expect an update regarding the outcome of this discussion on Monday. Please be aware however as we are only requesting this it is possible that we will be in a similar situation on Monday should our suppliers decide that the engineer visit is still necessary.

In order to prevent further delays we would highly recommend that you arrange another engineer visit with us and should this not resolve or progress the fault we would then look to escalate this issue further within Openreach.

Should you wish to arrange the visit then please reply to this message with 3 appointment timeslots when either yourself or a friend or family member will be available to grant access to the engineer. I have checked the availability for an engineer visit and the earliest timeslot is currently 03/07/13 AM however this is subject to change depending on engineer availability.

I will now place this ticket on hold until 01/07/13 as we await further updates from our suppliers. We will be in touch within 72 hours of this ticket being released.


With no conclusion from the work allocations team, I am now sat here having booked another engineer appointment, waiting to see what this copper engineer is going to come up with now.

I’m open to suggestions from anybody as to how I can get this dealt with a lot quicker, as we’re creeping up to a full month of provisioned and broken service and I'm completely unimpressed.

Edited by Deehem (Tue 02-Jul-13 21:22:07)

Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 02-Jul-13 20:06:48
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: Deehem] [link to this post]
 
I don't know if it is PN or Openreach, but the underlying problem seems to be the same that I had just over a year ago (although that was ADSL2+, not fibre).

Without providing any evidence, to the Customer, the Service is deemed to be fully provisioned (to the required Contractual Speed range/response).

Accordingly, instead of treating it as a failed provision, it then gets put to the back of the queue & treated as a new fault - hence the references of having to wait 72hrs, etc!

I also note that, despite stating that it is outside of your property, there have now dumped it into your lap by stating that you have to give a selection of availability dates/times.

Sorry, but they should be bending over backwards to sort out their inadequate provision!!

Regards,
John
Standard User Deehem
(newbie) Tue 02-Jul-13 20:38:27
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: johnjburness] [link to this post]
 
Indeed. That's why I'm so frustrated it has taken a month. I fully expect the OR engineer to visit the property tomorrow (3rd time, inclusive of the installation visit) and be back to square one.

Plusnet are disclaiming at the moment that if it's found to be an internal wiring issue then I will be subject to a £60 charge. I assume that is from the CPE onwards (i.e, ethernet to PC) and not the CPE itself?

I have tested the CPE this evening, replacing the OR modem with one I brought home from work and that still shows the same (virtually nil upload and packet loss), along with testing new cat5 between each device and still no luck. If it is anything to do with the CPE then it will be the router, which I assume lays with the provider and not myself? That is the only piece of hardware I've been unable to test.

Here's to hoping the engineer visit tomorrow is a success, but as I don't finish work until 5 and get home for 5:30, the talking lays with my girlfriend unfortunately. Plus it will only be a copper engineer which fills me with less confidence.

I will respond back tomorrow with an update to the engineer visit.

Edited by Deehem (Tue 02-Jul-13 20:39:19)


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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Tue 02-Jul-13 21:00:44
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: Deehem] [link to this post]
 
The D 'side pair , which is the bit that connects your NTE to the PCP is copper, which is what is in the ducting under the footpath, the Fibre from the exchange terminates at the dslam in the new cabinet (FTTC) both PCP and dslam cab are linked by copper cable too ,
Seems a little odd that this packet loss is only impacting the upstream,what are you using to montitor for packet loss ? also when you test the upload how are you doing this ,web site speedtest's or FTP ect ?

Edited by tommy45 (Tue 02-Jul-13 21:02:06)

Standard User Deehem
(newbie) Tue 02-Jul-13 21:13:51
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
I'm using MTR to identify packet loss to multiple locations (end hop ends up with around 40-60%, but seems to be much better at the moment, upload is still iffy).

I'm testing upload by attempting to upload to various locations via FTP. Running a speedtest (I know, not reliable) shows 0.02Mbps.

Examples:
http://img.deehem.co.uk/20130702210455.png
http://img.deehem.co.uk/20130702210610.png

The speedtest web UI shows similar results.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 02-Jul-13 21:30:34
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: Deehem] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Deehem:
If it is anything to do with the CPE then it will be the router, which I assume lays with the provider and not myself? That is the only piece of hardware I've been unable to test.
You can connect direct to the modem using PPPoE which will eliminate the router. See http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-he...

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer
Standard User Deehem
(newbie) Tue 02-Jul-13 21:56:32
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
In reply to a post by Deehem:
If it is anything to do with the CPE then it will be the router, which I assume lays with the provider and not myself? That is the only piece of hardware I've been unable to test.
You can connect direct to the modem using PPPoE which will eliminate the router. See http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-he...


Thanks. Just tried this and equally as bad, although web pages do load a lot quicker, FTP just times out on upload.

Tried this with several different FTP servers.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Wed 03-Jul-13 08:54:58
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: Deehem] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried FTP passive mode?

Are all uploads affected?

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer

Edited by jelv (Wed 03-Jul-13 08:55:47)

Standard User Deehem
(newbie) Wed 03-Jul-13 09:12:26
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
Yep. It was already using passive mode my default.

Just ran the same file copy with scp and rsync over SSH and next to nothing.

test.tar.gz 0% 2112KB 7.1KB/s - stalled

Looks like it tried to move the file initially, when it came to actually transferring it, it couldn't do anything.

And it's uploads to various FTP servers across the UK, so not just a single file or server.

Edited by Deehem (Wed 03-Jul-13 09:55:33)

Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 03-Jul-13 09:29:34
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Re: Fibre Install. Result: Abysmal!


[re: Deehem] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Deehem:
Plusnet are disclaiming at the moment that if it's found to be an internal wiring issue then I will be subject to a £60 charge. I assume that is from the CPE onwards (i.e, ethernet to PC) and not the CPE itself?

Your Installation has not been completed satisfactorily & this Installation does NOT rely on any of your own internal wiring. PN know this but still try to put pressure on you by the "threat" of a £60 call-out charge! frown

Regards,
John
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