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Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 10:28:59
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Firstly, I think we need to establish the terms and conditions of her BT Basic account and whether the charge for BT Privacy and Caller Display can be imposed. What puzzles me is that for free BT Privacy and Caller Display a new 12 month contract is required yet BT Basic is offered on this basis: "Stay flexible. There is no minimum contract period for BT Basic. This means you can change from BT Basic to any of our other calling plans and packages at any time." http://www.bt.com/includingyou/bt-basic-what-you-get... Yet she is/was (?) getting BT Privacy and Caller Display included for no extra cost and I can not find anything about that in the rather sparse T&C's for BT Basic.
Despite there being no minimum contract period for BT Basic, your aunt would have had a contract for BT Basic before this episode. The as yet unanswered question is what the change(s) are.

The usual position with amending a contract is that the existing contract is amended by a new contract. Free BT Privacy and Caller Display in return for a new minimum period of 12 months could meet the requirements for a contract. Any conflicts between the existing and new contract resolve in favour of the new contract, as they would be part of the changes agreed on.

In reply to a post by 4M2:
What was agreed on the phone I have yet to establish, but I hope it wasn't a change from BT Basic to standard line rental on a 12 months contract just for the sake of free BT Privacy and Caller Display.
As I said in an earlier reply, any term is only included in the contract if the accepting party had sufficient chance to be aware of it before agreement was reached, and particularly onerous terms are only included if explicit steps were taken before agreement to draw it to the agreeing party's attention.

Certainly a change from BT Basic to standard line rental would appear to be particularly onerous: it's withdrawal of a considerable discount. If free Privacy and Caller Display is not available on BT Basic, but BT offered it by mistake, that's their lookout.


There's a further complexity in the contractual situation - it might be that the "offer" on the phone was an invitation to treat, your aunt's "agreement" was an offer on the terms of the invitation to treat, and BT will subsequently come back with written agreement to that offer. In this case, if the agreement was posted, it is valid from the letter being posted, not it being received.

I still think it more likely that BT made the offer and your aunt accepted that offer, forming a contract for amendment at that point - but it is somewhat sensitive to the facts.


My thinking was to contact BT, requesting escape from the amendment contract under the Distance Selling Regulations if a contract was formed on the phone, or, alternatively, withdrawing the offer made if the "agreement" on the phone was actually an offer. That would return the situation to the unamended contract.

This saves all the hassle of proving what was or wasn't agreed. If Privacy with Caller Display in return for a new 12 month minimum period is available on BT Basic, your aunt can then take out a new amending contract on those terms.

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 10:46:18
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I came across this just now, could be similar to the cold call or then again .....?

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/edw/f...

Alastair

plusnet
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 10:59:34
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I will obviously have to check in due course exactly what was agreed between my aunt and BT Retail during that phone conversation, however I can say at this stage that free BT Privacy with Caller display on BT Basic was previously available to my aunt because I actually arranged it for her due to frequent nuisance calls.

What perhaps makes this case unique and more complex is that she rents a cordless phone from BT Retail which was an upgrade from a previously rented corded phone so she could see caller display. I believe that the rental contract on the phone has now expired, although she is still paying rental on it...


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Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 11:23:25
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
I believe that the rental contract on the phone has now expired, although she is still paying rental on it...
Just because a minimum contract period has expired doesn't mean the contract comes to an end, unless that is what the contract states. It's more likely the contract remains active but termination rights become available.

Renting a phone is crazy these days, with it being so cheap to buy a quality phone (I'm a great fan of Gigaset units). It sounds like your aunt is overdue for the sort of comprehensive review of her arrangements with BT that I realise you're now trying to conduct.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 11:31:03
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
Renting a phone is crazy these days, with it being so cheap to buy a quality phone (I'm a great fan of Gigaset units). It sounds like your aunt is overdue for the sort of comprehensive review of her arrangements with BT that I realise you're now trying to conduct.


Yes I bought her a phone a few months ago with a view to phasing out the rented phone but as you can imagine such changes have to be done gradually smile
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 11:39:24
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Apprentice:
I came across this just now, could be similar to the cold call or then again .....?

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/edw/f...


That link doesn't work for me today with IE8, although that same url did work yesterday?

Edit: it does work with Chrome today though smile

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 24-Oct-13 11:43:37)

Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 12:46:54
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
As well as all of the suggestions that you have received here (as well as your own proposals), may I suggest that you also consider contacting BT via:-
LINKY

This seems to be a specific point of contact for people who have raised an issue in a public Forum (which you have). It seems to go to a higher level of UK based support & can often produce results. Anyway, it is worth a try.

Regards,
John
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 13:50:03
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
While we don't know what was said on the phone, it could be quite likely that BT were requesting her, as a BT Basic cust, to pre-register for free BT Privacy and Caller Display, as many of us have already done online. In which case neither we, nor her, have yet entered any contract for it; we await to hear from BT on it.

It may be that the 12 month minimum contract period would not be an issue to her, altho' it begs the Q as to what happens after 12 months, but a contract change from BT Basic to BT Standard line rental would be a drastic change of conditions, which if not mentioned would not be implementable.

We still don't know whether the announced future price changes apply to BT Basic.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 13:56:03
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Prod: If you yourself are thinking of pre-registering, don't forget to pre-register both your line individually.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:24:19
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
BT Basic is an excellent deal for her - I just hope that it hasn't been mucked up with this privacy and caller display business.

IMO. calling BT overseas call centres is something to be avoided at all costs - its so much more straightforward with Zen line rental but that of course would be more expensive than BT Basic even with the additional £1.75 per month for BT Privacy and Caller Display...will have to see what transpires with the "softly sofly" approach and check for any further communication from BT Retail over the next few days smile
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